U.S. weakness emboldens Iran: 'We've got the power...enemies Mosquito'

2009-11-03 18:58:13

#51

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,821|6502|eXtreme to the maX

Hmmm, if I say to a friend 'This guys giving me a load of shit, he's fucking up my business, there's gonna be trouble soon, whaddaya reckon?'
And the other guy says 'Meh, its between you guys, nothing to do with me, I'm keeping out of it' I'd say thats an indication the other guys isn;t too bothered about what happens.

Fuck Israel

2009-11-04 04:33:41

#52

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6807|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
Hmmm, if I say to a friend 'This guys giving me a load of shit, he's fucking up my business, there's gonna be trouble soon, whaddaya reckon?'
And the other guy says 'Meh, its between you guys, nothing to do with me, I'm keeping out of it' I'd say thats an indication the other guys isn;t too bothered about what happens.

If Saddam had said "I'm about to invade Kuwait, do you have any problem with that?" I'm sure the response would've been different. The response was in regard to disputes over some oil fields, IIRC. Iraq thought Kuwait was drilling into some of their oil fields or vice versa. As far as our diplomats knew, it was a diplomatic issue at the time.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-11-04 05:02:34

#53

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,821|6502|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
As far as our diplomats knew, it was a diplomatic issue at the time.

Then why place the fleet on alert?

Fuck Israel

2009-11-04 07:41:40

#54

RAIMIUS: You with the face!; +244|7111|US

...because that's what you do when countries get pissed at each other.
"I don't care who started it. I'll end it!"

2009-11-07 15:32:39

#55

rdx-fx: ...; +955|6988

Dilbert_X wrote:
If and when you grow up

you'll realise that

people who talk down to other people are just making themselves look like jerks [...]

Compare and contrast lines 1 and 3 above.
One line originally, but broken into three for illustrative purposes.

2009-11-07 15:33:41

#56

rdx-fx: ...; +955|6988

Ahmadamnnutjob, The Paris Hilton of the world political stage...

2009-11-09 04:43:34

#57

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6807|'Murka

rdx-fx wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
If and when you grow up

you'll realise that

people who talk down to other people are just making themselves look like jerks [...]
Compare and contrast lines 1 and 3 above.
One line originally, but broken into three for illustrative purposes.

Like a /facepalm haiku.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-11-09 08:16:43

#58

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7206|Nårvei

FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:

Who says we're the ones who feel compelled to do it?

Seems that everyone wants us to keep to ourselves, but every time someone needs help, they turn to Uncle Sam with puppy dog eyes. Can't have it both ways.
History says it tbh ...

Uncle Sam pr date is the bully in the school-yard FEOS, you rather not play with him but he's good to have as a friend when things go sour ... the anology however could have been different if Uncle Sam wasn't such a bully
Bullshit. One fuckup in Iraq and suddenly the US is the bully that nobody can trust? I don't believe that for an instant. I'm sick and fucking tired of Europe, living in its glass house, chucking rocks at the US.

Take your bully nonsense and put that one page into the history book full of the same shit Europe's been doing for centuries.

And make sure you tell your government and every other government in the UN not to ask for or expect help from the US next time it's needed. Let's see how that works out for the rest of you.

So that Europe did the same for centuries make it allright? .... that's BS FEOS ...

It's more than one fuckup in Iraq FEOS, it's basically most of your interventions since the end of WW2 ... Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Iran etc etc etc the list is long ...

Not saying all those interventions was wrong, by all means ... but they have contributed to the US getting stamped as a bully ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-11-11 05:25:30

#59

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6807|'Murka

Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:

History says it tbh ...

Uncle Sam pr date is the bully in the school-yard FEOS, you rather not play with him but he's good to have as a friend when things go sour ... the anology however could have been different if Uncle Sam wasn't such a bully
Bullshit. One fuckup in Iraq and suddenly the US is the bully that nobody can trust? I don't believe that for an instant. I'm sick and fucking tired of Europe, living in its glass house, chucking rocks at the US.

Take your bully nonsense and put that one page into the history book full of the same shit Europe's been doing for centuries.

And make sure you tell your government and every other government in the UN not to ask for or expect help from the US next time it's needed. Let's see how that works out for the rest of you.
So that Europe did the same for centuries make it allright? .... that's BS FEOS ...

It's more than one fuckup in Iraq FEOS, it's basically most of your interventions since the end of WW2 ... Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Iran etc etc etc the list is long ...

Not saying all those interventions was wrong, by all means ... but they have contributed to the US getting stamped as a bully ...

I love how UN-driven activities suddenly get the "US" moniker when it suits Europe's arguments (Korea=UN police action, Vietnam=UN action, Iraq 1=UN action, Balkans=UN/NATO action, do you see the pattern?).

It doesn't make it alright. It makes it utter fucking hypocrisy for Europe to say ANYTHING. Hence the glass house statement. If your argument had one iota of validity, then Europe is completely untrustworthy as well. As is any other country in the world that takes any action that it feels is in its own interests and not necessarily agreed upon or in the interests of every other country in the world.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-11-11 05:36:31

#60

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,821|6502|eXtreme to the maX

Korea, Vietnam and Iraq 1 would not have happened but for the US ramming it through the UN and then implementing it.
And when it came to Iraq 2 the US knew it wouldn't get it through the UN, funny eh?

Fuck Israel

2009-11-11 05:39:47

#61

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7206|Nårvei

I know the pattern very well FEOS and the pattern says the US is to blame ... that is the impression "out there" ... I didn't say it was my opinion but rather how the US came to be observed as a bully.

And bringing Europes history into the equation only proves my point, Europes colonisation adventure around the world left Europe with the same "good" impression for centuries, that pressure only lessoned after the US took over the role as world police ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-11-11 05:43:06

#62

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6807|'Murka

Varegg wrote:
I know the pattern very well FEOS and the pattern says the US is to blame ... that is the impression "out there" ... I didn't say it was my opinion but rather how the US came to be observed as a bully.

And bringing Europes history into the equation only proves my point, Europes colonisation adventure around the world left Europe with the same "good" impression for centuries, that pressure only lessoned after the US took over the role as world police ...

And who is it who came to the US asking for our help...time after time? Starts with an "E" and ends with a "urope".

And then you fucking whine about us getting involved.

HELP!

STOP HELPING!

WHY AREN'T YOU HELPING?!

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-11-11 05:47:39

#63

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7206|Nårvei

FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
I know the pattern very well FEOS and the pattern says the US is to blame ... that is the impression "out there" ... I didn't say it was my opinion but rather how the US came to be observed as a bully.

And bringing Europes history into the equation only proves my point, Europes colonisation adventure around the world left Europe with the same "good" impression for centuries, that pressure only lessoned after the US took over the role as world police ...
And who is it who came to the US asking for our help...time after time? Starts with an "E" and ends with a "urope".

And then you fucking whine about us getting involved.

HELP!

STOP HELPING!

WHY AREN'T YOU HELPING?!

Time after time? ... please elaborate ...

You mean WW2 and the Balkan conflict? ... if so those two where 100% sucessful, one leading to the forming of NATO and the other how it can be done if a coalition work together ... together is the clue btw ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-11-11 07:33:04

#64

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6807|'Murka

As yourself why the US is always the one involved. Is it because we want to be? No.

It's because we're pretty much the only option. See Korea, for example. I'm not going to cite it. Look it up yourself.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-11-11 07:37:48

#65

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7206|Nårvei

FEOS wrote:
As yourself why the US is always the one involved. Is it because we want to be? No.

It's because we're pretty much the only option. See Korea, for example. I'm not going to cite it. Look it up yourself.

You think you are the only option ... and besides the Balkan conflict after WW2 I recognise you have difficulties naming other conflicts where joint intervention was a success ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-11-11 07:42:08

#66

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|7046

FEOS wrote:
As yourself why the US is always the one involved. Is it because we want to be? No.

It's because we're pretty much the only option. See Korea, for example. I'm not going to cite it. Look it up yourself.

Whilst on the subject of not citing things, all I see coming from you is "You're wrong" followed by a load of attacks and generally things that offer no facts into what you're talking about about. Dilbert, on the other hand does seem to be citing things, and does seem to actually provide some evidence to back him up. The only reason you're any good at debating is because you shout louder than everyone else and shift the blame around. You're basically a slightly more intelligent version of Lowing.

2009-11-11 07:43:08

#67

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6807|'Murka

Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:
As yourself why the US is always the one involved. Is it because we want to be? No.

It's because we're pretty much the only option. See Korea, for example. I'm not going to cite it. Look it up yourself.
You think you are the only option ... and besides the Balkan conflict after WW2 I recognise you have difficulties naming other conflicts where joint intervention was a success ...

Do you have any?

Indochina worked out well for Europe.

As did Africa.

And the Middle East.

All post-WW2.

All without US involvement.

All pretty much failures that led to further shittiness.

Glass houses. No stones.

The lesson is done for today, Varegg.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-11-11 12:58:54

#68

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7206|Nårvei

FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:
As yourself why the US is always the one involved. Is it because we want to be? No.

It's because we're pretty much the only option. See Korea, for example. I'm not going to cite it. Look it up yourself.
You think you are the only option ... and besides the Balkan conflict after WW2 I recognise you have difficulties naming other conflicts where joint intervention was a success ...
Do you have any?

Indochina worked out well for Europe.

As did Africa.

And the Middle East.

All post-WW2.

All without US involvement.

All pretty much failures that led to further shittiness.

Glass houses. No stones.

The lesson is done for today, Varegg.

I brought up Europes failures as a point FEOS ... that doesn't make it right for the US to do exactly the same failures is it?

Learn from history ... learn from the operations that went well and equally from the operations that didn't go well ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-11-11 15:30:28

#69

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,821|6502|eXtreme to the maX

Why do that when you can just repeat Vietnam over and over?

Fuck Israel

2009-11-12 04:34:31

#70

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6807|'Murka

Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:

You think you are the only option ... and besides the Balkan conflict after WW2 I recognise you have difficulties naming other conflicts where joint intervention was a success ...
Do you have any?

Indochina worked out well for Europe.

As did Africa.

And the Middle East.

All post-WW2.

All without US involvement.

All pretty much failures that led to further shittiness.

Glass houses. No stones.

The lesson is done for today, Varegg.
I brought up Europes failures as a point FEOS ... that doesn't make it right for the US to do exactly the same failures is it?

Learn from history ... learn from the operations that went well and equally from the operations that didn't go well ...

What makes you think we haven't?

Trust me...the world looks completely different when you're not looking down your nose at it. Europe should try it sometime.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-11-12 05:14:13

#71

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7206|Nårvei

FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:

Do you have any?

Indochina worked out well for Europe.

As did Africa.

And the Middle East.

All post-WW2.

All without US involvement.

All pretty much failures that led to further shittiness.

Glass houses. No stones.

The lesson is done for today, Varegg.
I brought up Europes failures as a point FEOS ... that doesn't make it right for the US to do exactly the same failures is it?

Learn from history ... learn from the operations that went well and equally from the operations that didn't go well ...
What makes you think we haven't?

Trust me...the world looks completely different when you're not looking down your nose at it. Europe should try it sometime.

Well ... Iraq and Afghanistan makes me think you haven't learned much, Iraq is a disaster from end to finish (not quite finished but still) and you pretty much are waging war against an enemy in Afghanistan that now looks exactly like it did when the Russians fought the same enemy ...

And that kinda shows me you haven't learned from others mistakes ... you didn't learn from the French mistakes in Indochina either ...

And that Europe doesn't have the US government paranoid way of thinking makes for a poor argument FEOS ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-11-12 14:08:55

#72

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6807|'Murka

So what's your argument then? Is it that Europe is too weak to do anything or too cowardly to do anything?

My guess is it's the latter, as they've got 3/5 of the veto seats at the UNSC.

The US's fight in Afghanistan is completely different than the USSR's fight in Afghanistan, on many levels. Or, you can just look at it simplistically to suit your argument--your choice.

Just make up your mind when it comes to the UN/international involvement/consensus, please. Either get on board with it or GTFO. When it's convenient, you say the US acts unilaterally, even though it's enforcing UN resolutions (with several other nations along for the ride). When it's convenient, you say the US should act unilaterally because the UN is ineffectual. When it's convenient, you say the US does this or that, ignoring the dozens of other countries and UN resolutions backing it up, saying that because the US is supplying the bulk of the forces, that it's really just the US doing what it wants. Guess what? You can't have it both ways. Allied Force (Balkans) was predominantly US forces. Either give us all the credit (you shouldn't, but using your logic, you should), or apply the same math to every other multinational effort out there (Afghanistan comes immediately to mind). Korea: UN effort...still a UN effort. Vietnam: UN effort...just ask the Aussies. Gulf War 1: UN effort. Afghanistan: Multinational effort with UN support. The only pseudo-outlier is Iraq, and that argument can go on ad nauseum (and has).

So again: either be consistent or admit to your hypocrisy. Either way, it's fine with me.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-11-12 20:46:58

#73

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,821|6502|eXtreme to the maX

Pretty sure I've always said it should all be done through the UN.

Fuck Israel

BF2S Forums U.S. weakness emboldens Iran: 'We've got the power...enemies Mosquito'

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

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