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2010-01-20 06:08:30
PrivateVendetta
I DEMAND XMAS THEME
+704|6606|Roma

CapnNismo wrote:

PrivateVendetta wrote:

IMO America voted in Obama for change, he offers it, they don't like it. They are selfish and paranoid to dismiss it as 'Russian socialism'.
But I guess Capitalism is the American way. 
I just hope him losing this seat doesn't influence any other important globally-affecting bills he has to put through.
I couldn't agree more. Capitalism can still thrive and grow with a national health system. Hell, look at Germany and Austria: We have both! A private insurance industry for those that want to pay for it and then a public one that pretty much every Joe (not sure about Germany) uses and the quality of life in both countries is outstandingly good - and Germany has the largest economy on the entire European continent, iirc. Some of the largest companies in the world all are based in Germany (Siemens is one that jumps to mind), so clearly capitalism is thriving there.
But the states have PROPER capitalism. That's why they don't want it.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/29388/stopped%20scrolling%21.png
2010-01-20 06:12:37
Benzin
Member
+576|6413
Which is why I'm considering giving up my US citizenship later this year if at all possible... not likely, though, because I don't think Austrian citizenship inheritance goes back to grandparents. Germany only goes back to direct parents and Austria has almost identical laws as Germany does - Austria cracked down on dual citizenship about 12 years ago, so not likely I'll be able to get it via my grandmother. Ah well. Just have to wait until after uni then.
2010-01-20 06:21:56
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5773|London, England

CapnNismo wrote:

PrivateVendetta wrote:

IMO America voted in Obama for change, he offers it, they don't like it. They are selfish and paranoid to dismiss it as 'Russian socialism'.
But I guess Capitalism is the American way. 
I just hope him losing this seat doesn't influence any other important globally-affecting bills he has to put through.
I couldn't agree more. Capitalism can still thrive and grow with a national health system. Hell, look at Germany and Austria: We have both! A private insurance industry for those that want to pay for it and then a public one that pretty much every Joe (not sure about Germany) uses and the quality of life in both countries is outstandingly good - and Germany has the largest economy on the entire European continent, iirc. Some of the largest companies in the world all are based in Germany (Siemens is one that jumps to mind), so clearly capitalism is thriving there.
Since you're spending so much time in Vienna (doing what? spending Daddy's money I assume, I assume you're about 17 years old) you should get off your ass and learn something about the Austrian School of Economics that was started by F.A. Hayek. You might learn something since you're clearly ignorant about the world.

OMG Europe is so much better. Who cares? Stay there. We don't want you back. You'll just sit on welfare and complain your monthly check isn't large enough.

It's just ironic that the home of the most anarcho-capitalistic thought in the world resides in the city you currently call home and yet you espouse the beliefs of Marx. Tool.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-20 06:22:59
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5773|London, England

CapnNismo wrote:

NeXuS wrote:

CapnNismo wrote:

Well then here's a thought: Trim the fat. But oh wait, when you look at the majority of the American population, they can't even trim the fat off their own bodies - how can they ever expect them to fix their own government when they can't even fix themselves?

Europe > USA

The USA is practically a second-world country when you look at the big picture.
You try to show how smart you are by cracking a joke at how fat the US is....? Alright. Cool.
If you want to see one of my serious and intelligent posts, go read some of the stuff that I post in DST. This is EE - this is where I post when I'm high and/or looking for entertainment. The Internet is NOT serious business, my friend.
No, wrong. You don't post anything of substance in DST either. You're an immature kid with fuck all life experience. Your opinion is worth less than the zit on my ass.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-20 06:33:35
13rin
Member
+977|6894

JohnG@lt wrote:

CapnNismo wrote:

PrivateVendetta wrote:

IMO America voted in Obama for change, he offers it, they don't like it. They are selfish and paranoid to dismiss it as 'Russian socialism'.
But I guess Capitalism is the American way. 
I just hope him losing this seat doesn't influence any other important globally-affecting bills he has to put through.
I couldn't agree more. Capitalism can still thrive and grow with a national health system. Hell, look at Germany and Austria: We have both! A private insurance industry for those that want to pay for it and then a public one that pretty much every Joe (not sure about Germany) uses and the quality of life in both countries is outstandingly good - and Germany has the largest economy on the entire European continent, iirc. Some of the largest companies in the world all are based in Germany (Siemens is one that jumps to mind), so clearly capitalism is thriving there.
Since you're spending so much time in Vienna (doing what? spending Daddy's money I assume, I assume you're about 17 years old) you should get off your ass and learn something about the Austrian School of Economics that was started by F.A. Hayek. You might learn something since you're clearly ignorant about the world.

OMG Europe is so much better. Who cares? Stay there. We don't want you back. You'll just sit on welfare and complain your monthly check isn't large enough.

It's just ironic that the home of the most anarcho-capitalistic thought in the world resides in the city you currently call home and yet you espouse the beliefs of Marx. Tool.
Woot!
o/\o
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2010-01-20 06:37:27
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6912

if ever an EE thread deserved a D&ST death . . .
2010-01-20 07:10:42
1927
The oldest chav in the world
+2,423|7088|Cardiff, Capital of Wales

burnzz wrote:

if ever an EE thread deserved a D&ST death . . .
Tell me about it, Ive tried lightening the mood by claiming to shag this n shag that but nuh, its no good.  too serious now
2010-01-20 07:55:31
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|7129|Purplicious Wisconsin

Poseidon wrote:

War Man wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

not exactly unexpected
'Course not but stop spoiling the moment
and what would a republican winning a seat in massachusetts benefit a 15 year old from wisconsin?

absolutely nothing
16 going to be 17 in a few months. Also if this health care thing passes my future is fucked as our country will be in greater debt than we are now. With a Republican winning a seat in Massachusetts or any other state really means that there is 1 less vote for nationalised health care.
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
2010-01-20 07:58:43
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5652|Cleveland, Ohio

DBBrinson1 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

CapnNismo wrote:


I couldn't agree more. Capitalism can still thrive and grow with a national health system. Hell, look at Germany and Austria: We have both! A private insurance industry for those that want to pay for it and then a public one that pretty much every Joe (not sure about Germany) uses and the quality of life in both countries is outstandingly good - and Germany has the largest economy on the entire European continent, iirc. Some of the largest companies in the world all are based in Germany (Siemens is one that jumps to mind), so clearly capitalism is thriving there.
Since you're spending so much time in Vienna (doing what? spending Daddy's money I assume, I assume you're about 17 years old) you should get off your ass and learn something about the Austrian School of Economics that was started by F.A. Hayek. You might learn something since you're clearly ignorant about the world.

OMG Europe is so much better. Who cares? Stay there. We don't want you back. You'll just sit on welfare and complain your monthly check isn't large enough.

It's just ironic that the home of the most anarcho-capitalistic thought in the world resides in the city you currently call home and yet you espouse the beliefs of Marx. Tool.
Woot!
o/\o
2010-01-20 08:22:00
1927
The oldest chav in the world
+2,423|7088|Cardiff, Capital of Wales
Check me out right and remember my politcal background and where I lives right.

The Republicans dont have any agenda's, they wait to see what the Democrats do and act on that.

Am I right?
2010-01-20 08:33:43
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5773|London, England

1927 wrote:

Check me out right and remember my politcal background and where I lives right.

The Republicans dont have any agenda's, they wait to see what the Democrats do and act on that.

Am I right?
That's the common perception, yeah. Conservatives are always on the defensive and reactionary because they're trying to maintain the status quo and retain stability in the system. They really have no desire to change what's already in existence so why would they be the ones proposing massive changes via legislation?

The only legislation I would expect a conservative to write or support are minor tweaks that make the current system more efficient.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-20 08:40:09
1927
The oldest chav in the world
+2,423|7088|Cardiff, Capital of Wales
Hi fucking 5 to me in that case.

DS&T w/e ya called.

Sit the fuck up and take note of your brother 1927 cos he knows his shit Im telling ya's
2010-01-20 08:41:40
PrivateVendetta
I DEMAND XMAS THEME
+704|6606|Roma

1927 wrote:

Hi fucking 5 to me in that case.

DS&T w/e ya called.

Sit the fuck up and take note of your brother 1927 cos he knows his shit Im telling ya's
lol'd
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/29388/stopped%20scrolling%21.png
2010-01-20 08:44:31
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5773|London, England

1927 wrote:

Hi fucking 5 to me in that case.

DS&T w/e ya called.

Sit the fuck up and take note of your brother 1927 cos he knows his shit Im telling ya's
Well, Republicans do try to push morality into legislation. If many of them had their way prayer in school would return, abortion would be re-banned etc.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-20 11:41:41
Benzin
Member
+576|6413

JohnG@lt wrote:

Since you're spending so much time in Vienna (doing what? spending Daddy's money I assume, I assume you're about 17 years old) you should get off your ass and learn something about the Austrian School of Economics that was started by F.A. Hayek. You might learn something since you're clearly ignorant about the world.

OMG Europe is so much better. Who cares? Stay there. We don't want you back. You'll just sit on welfare and complain your monthly check isn't large enough.

It's just ironic that the home of the most anarcho-capitalistic thought in the world resides in the city you currently call home and yet you espouse the beliefs of Marx. Tool.
I'm going on 23 in March and studying Business-IT at the Technical University of Vienna... my girlfriend is finishing up the last of all her introductory courses at the WU (Business University of Vienna). As it is, I've just finished my basic economic classes and next semester I'll be getting into the core of that aspect of my degree.

I don't receive a single welfare check at all from the Austrian government because I am a US citizen (something I am growing to resent). I don't think I ever espoused any Marxist thoughts here in this thread, nor have I ever. Last I checked, a public health care system is not Marxist at all, but simply trying to make sure everyone is healthy. Show me where Marx or Engels talk about this in their writings, though, I'd be interested to know what source you're really coming from with a claim like that.

I'll address the topic of welfare, though: The welfare system in Austria, for the most part, exists as a safety net to help people get back on their feet after say, being injured or losing their job. If you've lost your job, you can certainly collect welfare checks if you want, but you aren't forced. The checks also don't last - there are time limits to them.

As to Hayek - I just did some reading over the English and German WIkipedia entries from him and they're quite interesting. Hayek considers conservatives in the USA to be bad. Certainly, they embrace the free market theory that he likes, but they are far too staunch and unwilling to change in any way, whereas a classic liberal (not Democrat) embraces the free market because it wants to go somewhere. I would say Hayek leans more towards the center, where you, John, are clearly very far right. I might give one of his books a read next summer, after the semester is over. My finance professor at the moment is quite good and I'd like to discuss these things with him. Thanks for bringing the name to my attention, I do appreciate it.
2010-01-20 11:58:15
loubot
O' HAL naw!
+470|6993|Columbus, OH
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: My Star War buddies and I completed the goal with much success, now how much do we get paid????
2010-01-20 12:00:48
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5889|Ventura, California

seymorebutts443 wrote:

CC-Marley wrote:

seymorebutts443 wrote:


i am, thanks.
You're being paged I think..
I'll bite, what stupid sarcastic comment are you going to write now?
You're a troll
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
2010-01-20 13:01:32
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5773|London, England

CapnNismo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Since you're spending so much time in Vienna (doing what? spending Daddy's money I assume, I assume you're about 17 years old) you should get off your ass and learn something about the Austrian School of Economics that was started by F.A. Hayek. You might learn something since you're clearly ignorant about the world.

OMG Europe is so much better. Who cares? Stay there. We don't want you back. You'll just sit on welfare and complain your monthly check isn't large enough.

It's just ironic that the home of the most anarcho-capitalistic thought in the world resides in the city you currently call home and yet you espouse the beliefs of Marx. Tool.
I'm going on 23 in March and studying Business-IT at the Technical University of Vienna... my girlfriend is finishing up the last of all her introductory courses at the WU (Business University of Vienna). As it is, I've just finished my basic economic classes and next semester I'll be getting into the core of that aspect of my degree.

I don't receive a single welfare check at all from the Austrian government because I am a US citizen (something I am growing to resent). I don't think I ever espoused any Marxist thoughts here in this thread, nor have I ever. Last I checked, a public health care system is not Marxist at all, but simply trying to make sure everyone is healthy. Show me where Marx or Engels talk about this in their writings, though, I'd be interested to know what source you're really coming from with a claim like that.

I'll address the topic of welfare, though: The welfare system in Austria, for the most part, exists as a safety net to help people get back on their feet after say, being injured or losing their job. If you've lost your job, you can certainly collect welfare checks if you want, but you aren't forced. The checks also don't last - there are time limits to them.

As to Hayek - I just did some reading over the English and German WIkipedia entries from him and they're quite interesting. Hayek considers conservatives in the USA to be bad. Certainly, they embrace the free market theory that he likes, but they are far too staunch and unwilling to change in any way, whereas a classic liberal (not Democrat) embraces the free market because it wants to go somewhere. I would say Hayek leans more towards the center, where you, John, are clearly very far right. I might give one of his books a read next summer, after the semester is over. My finance professor at the moment is quite good and I'd like to discuss these things with him. Thanks for bringing the name to my attention, I do appreciate it.
I'm actually a Classical Liberal, otherwise known as a Libertarian here in the States. I'm not far right wing in the slightest except on economic matters.

Frankly I just don't like you because you seem to be apologizing for having been born in America in every single one of your posts. My grandparents busted their asses to get out of Europe and become American citizens and you spit in their face every time you write one of your posts. Stop calling yourself an American. You have never been one in anything but name. Every time you apologize (which I'm sure you do 20,000 times a day), it makes you look like a total pussy.

And yes, government sponsored health care comes right out of the Marx-Engels handbook.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-01-20 13:21:02
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6953|Long Island, New York

War Man wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

War Man wrote:


'Course not but stop spoiling the moment
and what would a republican winning a seat in massachusetts benefit a 15 year old from wisconsin?

absolutely nothing
16 going to be 17 in a few months. Also if this health care thing passes my future is fucked as our country will be in greater debt than we are now. With a Republican winning a seat in Massachusetts or any other state really means that there is 1 less vote for nationalised health care.
really it's funny you suddenly care about the national debt now, didn't see you clamoring about when bush was adding to it

just so convenient for some people..
2010-01-20 13:30:18
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6912

you should lighten up, Poseidon. Warman just learned how to spell 'debt', and he's old enough to vote in, 2012? depends when he registers i guess . . .
2010-01-20 13:31:26
=NHB=Shadow
hi
+322|6781|California
I haven't registered yet, I should huh, so I can vote for Ralph Nadar '12
2010-01-20 23:14:46
Benzin
Member
+576|6413

JohnG@lt wrote:

I'm actually a Classical Liberal, otherwise known as a Libertarian here in the States. I'm not far right wing in the slightest except on economic matters.

Frankly I just don't like you because you seem to be apologizing for having been born in America in every single one of your posts. My grandparents busted their asses to get out of Europe and become American citizens and you spit in their face every time you write one of your posts. Stop calling yourself an American. You have never been one in anything but name. Every time you apologize (which I'm sure you do 20,000 times a day), it makes you look like a total pussy.

And yes, government sponsored health care comes right out of the Marx-Engels handbook.
I actually used to be a die-hard American. My grandfather and grandmother both came to the US after WW2 - my great grandfather was conscripted into the Nazi war machine in Austria and was killed by the Russians trying to defend his village less than a week before the war ended. My grandfather (who was from Berlin) was put into the Hitlerjugend and was almost forced to be one of the kids that they stuck out in the roads to essentially be suicide bombers against troops and tanks but luckily avoided it. My uncle retired from the USN and my father from the USAF, both put in 20 years of their lives. My brother just started his career in the USAF and my great uncle served in the Marine Corps but was medically discharged. I spent the first half of my life living on military installations.

Since I moved to Europe and was able to look at things from an outside perspective and see things a bit differently while not being hammered by the American lifestyle every day, it has changed how I see things. The United States is a country spiraling down into its own destruction because the government lacks the political will to do anything to fix the huge problems in the US that don't exist like they do here in Europe. Drive through even an average town in the US and look at the amount of poverty. Then start looking at the average American's finances and how much each American is in debt because of credit cards and the lack of any savings. I'm sorry, but the US is poisoned and is dying unless someone has the balls to step up and start pushing through the needed changes. I mean, it took how long for the US to get rid of segregation and slavery in comparison to Europe? Look at every national and social problem the US has ever had and compare Europe. Europe solved the problems faster, quicker or never had them at all because of the culture.

I really doubt these needed changes will ever happen, though, because no politician is willing to take the political risks necessary that could prevent said politician from being elected next term. Obama is at least trying to do it. I'm not sure he's going about it the right way, but he's at least trying. At the same time, though, foreign policy has not changed much at all and likely won't, unfortunately. The US needs to step away from the world stage politically (not economically) and sort out its own house first. That being said, I get my absentee ballots mailed to me from my hometown and I mail them back, despite that the ballots can be quite heavy (and thus expensive) from the amount of stuff I am required to send back and I read and listen to the news daily and try to stay current as much as I can. I do care about the US, but I am slowly losing all faith in the country as a whole.
2010-01-21 09:59:44
Kez
Member
+778|6118|London, UK
hi i voted what do i win
2010-01-21 11:20:37
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6802

AussieReaper wrote:

I really wish voting was compulsory in the US.
Even more morons would vote. At least in this case the only people who vote are the ones who care(usually), and the ones who care actually make an effort to be informed(hopefully).
2010-01-21 11:25:28
Benzin
Member
+576|6413

Commie Killer wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

I really wish voting was compulsory in the US.
Even more morons would vote. At least in this case the only people who vote are the ones who care(usually), and the ones who care actually make an effort to be informed(hopefully).
I'll agree with the second, but hope all you want, the vast majority of people who go to any election freely are rarely well informed.

 

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