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2010-02-09 10:45:17
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5772|London, England

androoz wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

androoz wrote:


Except he actually is an intellectual.
You have low standards.
Explain how. You may not agree with what Uzique says but he's a genius either way.
Because he uses words that make you scurry for a dictionary? That qualifies someone as a genius? He doesn't say anything original.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-02-09 10:47:41
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6884
i dont use words to impress anyone. if i write in a simple style people say im being dumb. if i express myself formally in the way ideas come to my mind, im being overly complicated and people get hung-up on the way i communicate instead of the actual ideas. it's a lose/lose. either way, it's not a conscious part of my thought-process. if people have to scurry for a dictionary just to interpret my posts, then they are fucking dumb. it's every-day vocabulary.

though i dont know what's worse... posts that make you reach for a book... or having to reach for a book in order to make posts...
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-02-09 10:51:12
presidentsheep
Back to the Fuhrer
+208|6375|Places 'n such

Uzique wrote:

i dont use words to impress anyone. if i write in a simple style people say im being dumb. if i express myself formally in the way ideas come to my mind, im being overly complicated and people get hung-up on the way i communicate instead of the actual ideas. it's a lose/lose. either way, it's not a conscious part of my thought-process. if people have to scurry for a dictionary just to interpret my posts, then they are fucking dumb. it's every-day vocabulary.

though i dont know what's worse... posts that make you reach for a book... or having to reach for a book in order to make posts...
neither... nothing wrong with using sources =P
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
2010-02-09 10:51:42
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5772|London, England

Uzique wrote:

i dont use words to impress anyone. if i write in a simple style people say im being dumb. if i express myself formally in the way ideas come to my mind, im being overly complicated and people get hung-up on the way i communicate instead of the actual ideas. it's a lose/lose. either way, it's not a conscious part of my thought-process. if people have to scurry for a dictionary just to interpret my posts, then they are fucking dumb. it's every-day vocabulary.

though i dont know what's worse... posts that make you reach for a book... or having to reach for a book in order to make posts...
Uzique, I don't actually dislike you, it's just fun poking holes in your ego.

What's wrong with reading a book to become informed on a subject? I fail to understand your argument. Is it because I didn't read the 'correct' books which would make it easier for you to refute me?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-02-09 10:56:55
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6884
you know my argument isnt about using fucking secondary sources.

there's a difference between reading widely and forming an opinion, and repeating passages from books verbatim in some intellectual-posturing routine. i think you fall into that latter category far too often. i still find your views on certain debate topics awfully backwards and elementary-- it appears that if you are reading widely, you're doing it with one eye closed. i think it's a phenomenon called virtual balkanization. your browsing and reading patterns are all invested in (comparatively) narrow-minded spheres of influence and information. you self-convince yourself that you're widely read and have taken into account both 'sides' of an issue. Lowing is the best example of such a poorly deluded intellectual lightweight. he floats around in the same cyber-circles all the time and the information that he accesses does nothing but balkanize and enforce his egregious views.

secondary sources add strength and credibility to many arguments and views. being able to use them properly is a muchly under-rated skill. i don't think you've got it - i'll just say that frankly - and haven't seen anything of yours in D&ST to suggest that you do intelligently consider and synthesize your opinions. at least give the original thinkers/authors some credit if you're just going to rewrite their books ad verbatim.

and what ego is it that people keep talking about? i have an ego because i openly flame others? i rarely ever post in D&ST or take any topic seriously. i never come here to intellectually ejaculate.

Last edited by Uzique (2010-02-09 10:58:19)

libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-02-09 10:59:17
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|7146|St. Andrews / Oslo

Anyone picked up on the intellectual satire in my sig?


I'm quite happy with it tbh.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
2010-02-09 11:00:01
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5772|London, England

Uzique wrote:

you know my argument isnt about using fucking secondary sources.

there's a difference between reading widely and forming an opinion, and repeating passages from books verbatim in some intellectual-posturing routine. i think you fall into that latter category far too often. i still find your views on certain debate topics awfully backwards and elementary-- it appears that if you are reading widely, you're doing it with one eye closed. i think it's a phenomenon called virtual balkanization. your browsing and reading patterns are all invested in (comparatively) narrow-minded spheres of influence and information. you self-convince yourself that you're widely read and have taken into account both 'sides' of an issue. Lowing is the best example of such a poorly deluded intellectual lightweight. he floats around in the same cyber-circles all the time and the information that he accesses does nothing but balkanize and enforce his egregious views.

secondary sources add strength and credibility to many arguments and views. being able to use them properly is a muchly under-rated skill. i don't think you've got it - i'll just say that frankly - and haven't seen anything of yours in D&ST to suggest that you do intelligently consider and synthesize your opinions. at least give the original thinkers/authors some credit if you're just going to rewrite their books ad verbatim.

and what ego is it that people keep talking about? i have an ego because i openly flame others? i rarely ever post in D&ST or take any topic seriously. i never come here to intellectually ejaculate.
Since you're so widely read and recognize my arguments, you must surely be able to state my sources then. Have at it.

I'll give you a hint though. I don't just regurgitate other peoples views. Most of my views are ones that I've held for much of my adult life. I didn't read Mill and suddenly start believing in freedom. I quote Mill because he states in words how I've always felt. I had never even heard of the man until one of my friends who had read him informed me that my line of thinking matched his almost verbatim.

So, I'm sorry to disappoint you Uzique, but I am not one of those kids who read a book in college and then started quoting it as fact because 'it changed their life'. I quote people whose line of thinking I appreciate because it matches my own.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-02-09 11:05:40)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-02-09 11:03:12
presidentsheep
Back to the Fuhrer
+208|6375|Places 'n such

JohnG@lt wrote:

Uzique wrote:

you know my argument isnt about using fucking secondary sources.

there's a difference between reading widely and forming an opinion, and repeating passages from books verbatim in some intellectual-posturing routine. i think you fall into that latter category far too often. i still find your views on certain debate topics awfully backwards and elementary-- it appears that if you are reading widely, you're doing it with one eye closed. i think it's a phenomenon called virtual balkanization. your browsing and reading patterns are all invested in (comparatively) narrow-minded spheres of influence and information. you self-convince yourself that you're widely read and have taken into account both 'sides' of an issue. Lowing is the best example of such a poorly deluded intellectual lightweight. he floats around in the same cyber-circles all the time and the information that he accesses does nothing but balkanize and enforce his egregious views.

secondary sources add strength and credibility to many arguments and views. being able to use them properly is a muchly under-rated skill. i don't think you've got it - i'll just say that frankly - and haven't seen anything of yours in D&ST to suggest that you do intelligently consider and synthesize your opinions. at least give the original thinkers/authors some credit if you're just going to rewrite their books ad verbatim.

and what ego is it that people keep talking about? i have an ego because i openly flame others? i rarely ever post in D&ST or take any topic seriously. i never come here to intellectually ejaculate.
Since you're so widely read and recognize my arguments, you must surely be able to state my sources then. Have at it.
www.foxnews.com

/sources.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
2010-02-09 11:05:43
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|7146|St. Andrews / Oslo

https://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb139/winterkiss42/DSCF2474.jpg
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
2010-02-09 11:06:53
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5772|London, England

Jenspm wrote:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb13 … CF2474.jpg
Nice. I haven't read most of them yet though It's also only a single half shelf in my library.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-02-09 11:10:33
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6884
i really have no idea why that would be impressive or even indicative of anything, but then again i grew up in a house with a reading room that was barely ever used... i guess most people like to try and define themselves by a bunch of hardbacks that stare vacantly at them, eh.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-02-09 11:12:54
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5772|London, England

Uzique wrote:

i really have no idea why that would be impressive or even indicative of anything, but then again i grew up in a house with a reading room that was barely ever used... i guess most people like to try and define themselves by a bunch of hardbacks that stare vacantly at them, eh.
Read my edit.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-02-09 14:05:43
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6738|New Haven, CT

androoz wrote:

nuk, what uni do you go to?
Yale.
2010-02-09 14:21:36
androoz
Banned
+137|5627|United States

nukchebi0 wrote:

androoz wrote:

nuk, what uni do you go to?
Yale.
n1. that's a really good uni.
2010-02-10 00:15:38
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7224|Nårvei

Jenspm wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

And I tend to agree with Uzique here, stop fucking talking about figures. Study what interests you.
Good advice if you're a selfish prick that isn't thinking long term about providing a nice life for his future family. Doing what interests you is what hobbies are for. If you can match a high paying job with something you like it's awesome. Would I ever choose a low paying job willingly because it's 'fun'? No, that's what high school jobs are for.
Funny that, I see that as a very American way of seeing things. No offence, it's just a different way of viewing things. Work your ass off -> get a family -> Work your ass off to pay for child's college -> die early of stress.


Honestly, I'd much rather pursue a education/career/way of life that interests me, ahead of going for a boring line of work that gives you "mad cash". It's sad, really, that all one thinks about is money when choosing a career/education path, money that'll ultimately be used on your child's education, who will most likely do the same. Result: generations of people stuck in jobs they really don't want so their children can do the same.

And fucking hell, you don't need a fucking 6-figure salary to make a nice living for your future family. Shit, you don't even need an education to do that.
Couldn't agree more ...

Society is diverse and need to be just that, everybody can't be a electrical engineer etc etc ... we need people laying bricks, carpenters, mechanics, architects, engineers, working in the grocery store ... the list is long and each worker is as needed as the next ...

Only difference between an electrical engineer and the checkout girl is the value of the work and not the value of the worker ...

And how do you define a nice life G@lt? ... six figures, a huge house and plenty of gadgets?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2010-02-10 01:29:08
VicktorVauhn
Member
+319|6806|Southern California

androoz wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Electrical Engineering

Learn to repair toasters
lol ya EE is cool if you're like a math genius or whatever.
lol, you only have to learn calculus. Its not that hard.

As they said, NO company needs a philosopher on payroll. The closest they would come is the field of ethics, but even then most engineering and business students need to take classes on ethics anyways.

Philosophy majors exist almost soley to teach philosophy. Serious.

Varegg wrote:

Only difference between an electrical engineer and the checkout girl is the value of the work and not the value of the worker ...
This is almost completely backwards.

Like you said, we NEED people doing all these jobs, it is just as valuable for someone to grow me food as it is for me to design him a new piece of farm equipment... if not more because people farmed by hand for years.

However the value of the worker varies drastically. Sorry to be realistic but the cashier as a worker is almost worthless because she can be replaced by damn near any person who has hands. Money is nothing more then a value we place on things, and even in your non-American utopia I am sure that your money & job market would speak loudly to the fact that a single unique instance of a check out girl is not anywhere near as valuable as an electrical engineer.
2010-02-10 01:37:19
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6636|teh FIN-land

VicktorVauhn wrote:

As they said, NO company needs a philosopher on payroll.

Philosophy majors exist almost soley to teach philosophy. Serious.
First point true, but then no company needs people with 90% of degrees on their payroll if they can still do the stuff they're employed to do.

Second point almost true, but so what? Doesn't mean you shouldn't study it. Philosophy majors can get plenty of jobs like anyone with a degree. Depends what you want from life doesn't it?
2010-02-10 01:37:28
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6520|eXtreme to the maX

Uzique wrote:

you pass under the oxbridge title to ignorant americans but you dont know what the fuck you're talking about when it comes to their most sought-after course?
pretty much all world-leaders, politicians, big-businessmen and high ranking public sector workers graduated in that
For example? Public sector is irrelevant BTW, they're just self-serving tie-checkers by and large, which is why the public sector in the UK is uniformly so shit, same for the political parties.

The interesting thing for me about the so-called classically trained is that they are invariably bereft of original ideas. I reckon their brains are so full of historical dross and irrelevant literature they just seize up.
and the little amount of work i have to do per week? seriously, fuck you. top-level arts degrees are fucking intense. all of our material isnt spoonfed to us either. there are no right or wrong opinions. if you haven't done your 20+ hours of reading and research for even the smallest of essays, then the profs are going to see straight through it and murder you.
20+ hrs a week? Jeez I had 30+hrs of lectures a week, plus labs, plus reading, plus doing the assignments.
synthesizing and corrobarating information so that you can evaluate a work is harder than just applying a formula to get to a solution.
Advanced Maths is pretty bloody hard, figuring out how to apply it to a practical situation is even harder. My finals were all open note exams - wouldn't it have been easy if it were just a case of 'applying a formula'? At that level you have to derive and prove the formula from scratch to suit the situation, then you can apply it.
i have to spend about 40 hours a week reading MINIMUM to just take in all the information i am required to, let alone to digest it and properly understand it. it's not enjoyable having to read a 400-page novel in 5 days, either.
You're clearly a slow reader then.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-02-10 01:39:32)

Fuck Israel
2010-02-10 01:41:04
VicktorVauhn
Member
+319|6806|Southern California

ruisleipa wrote:

VicktorVauhn wrote:

As they said, NO company needs a philosopher on payroll.

Philosophy majors exist almost soley to teach philosophy. Serious.
First point true, but then no company needs people with 90% of degrees on their payroll if they can still do the stuff they're employed to do.

Second point almost true, but so what? Doesn't mean you shouldn't study it. Philosophy majors can get plenty of jobs like anyone with a degree. Depends what you want from life doesn't it?
Ehhh, I only read the first page of the thread and was responding to the OP asking why philosophy was worthless to companies.
2010-02-10 01:41:10
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6636|teh FIN-land

Dilbert_X wrote:

For example? Public sector is irrelevant BTW, they're just self-serving tie-checkers by and large, which is why the public sector in the UK is uniformly so shit
never had treatment on the NHS then? Or got an education in a public school? oand no-one working in the public sector has ever done a good day's wotrk, and all private sector workers are just humanitarian angels yea? Pretty shitty yeah?

20+ hrs a week?
he said per essay dilbert not per week.

my degree's harder than your degree ner ner ner.
blah blah
2010-02-10 01:42:10
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6636|teh FIN-land

VicktorVauhn wrote:

Ehhh, I only read the first page of the thread and was responding to the OP asking why philosophy was worthless to companies.
oh right,

worthless is a bit strong though...
2010-02-10 01:46:33
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6520|eXtreme to the maX

ruisleipa wrote:

never had treatment on the NHS then? Or got an education in a public school? oand no-one working in the public sector has ever done a good day's wotrk, and all private sector workers are just humanitarian angels yea? Pretty shitty yeah?
I'm talking about the high level management of the public sector, as was Uzique, not the average nurse or teacher.
my degree's harder than your degree ner ner ner.
Yeah whatever, the art students I knew at Uni did bugger all, and when they graduate they get paid bugger all.
Fuck Israel
2010-02-10 02:07:08
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7224|Nårvei

VicktorVauhn wrote:

androoz wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Electrical Engineering

Learn to repair toasters
lol ya EE is cool if you're like a math genius or whatever.
lol, you only have to learn calculus. Its not that hard.

As they said, NO company needs a philosopher on payroll. The closest they would come is the field of ethics, but even then most engineering and business students need to take classes on ethics anyways.

Philosophy majors exist almost soley to teach philosophy. Serious.

Varegg wrote:

Only difference between an electrical engineer and the checkout girl is the value of the work and not the value of the worker ...
This is almost completely backwards.

Like you said, we NEED people doing all these jobs, it is just as valuable for someone to grow me food as it is for me to design him a new piece of farm equipment... if not more because people farmed by hand for years.

However the value of the worker varies drastically. Sorry to be realistic but the cashier as a worker is almost worthless because she can be replaced by damn near any person who has hands. Money is nothing more then a value we place on things, and even in your non-American utopia I am sure that your money & job market would speak loudly to the fact that a single unique instance of a check out girl is not anywhere near as valuable as an electrical engineer.
Not backwards but realistic ... has nothing to do with my non-American utopia either ...

I made a distinct difference between the work and the worker, doesn't matter if the checkout girl can be replaced by another cause there will always need to be one there ...

How about an architect and the carpenter then? ... we can build stuff without architects but not without the carpenter ... who is worth more?

The second you think you are better than others you have degraded yourself to a useless douchebag ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2010-02-10 02:18:27
VicktorVauhn
Member
+319|6806|Southern California

Varegg wrote:

VicktorVauhn wrote:

androoz wrote:


lol ya EE is cool if you're like a math genius or whatever.
lol, you only have to learn calculus. Its not that hard.

As they said, NO company needs a philosopher on payroll. The closest they would come is the field of ethics, but even then most engineering and business students need to take classes on ethics anyways.

Philosophy majors exist almost soley to teach philosophy. Serious.

Varegg wrote:

Only difference between an electrical engineer and the checkout girl is the value of the work and not the value of the worker ...
This is almost completely backwards.

Like you said, we NEED people doing all these jobs, it is just as valuable for someone to grow me food as it is for me to design him a new piece of farm equipment... if not more because people farmed by hand for years.

However the value of the worker varies drastically. Sorry to be realistic but the cashier as a worker is almost worthless because she can be replaced by damn near any person who has hands. Money is nothing more then a value we place on things, and even in your non-American utopia I am sure that your money & job market would speak loudly to the fact that a single unique instance of a check out girl is not anywhere near as valuable as an electrical engineer.
Not backwards but realistic ... has nothing to do with my non-American utopia either ...

I made a distinct difference between the work and the worker, doesn't matter if the checkout girl can be replaced by another cause there will always need to be one there ...

How about an architect and the carpenter then? ... we can build stuff without architects but not without the carpenter ... who is worth more?

The second you think you are better than others you have degraded yourself to a useless douchebag ...
Exactly. The work is important, the worker is not.

You said it yourself, the checkout girl can be replaced... but I need someone there. The work is important, but the worker is not.
Again, your quote
Only difference between an electrical engineer and the checkout girl is the value of the work and not the value of the worker ...
Saying that the work done is not valuable, but the person is. Except for the work is what I NEED, the worker can be replaced.
2010-02-10 03:09:35
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6738|New Haven, CT

Uzique wrote:

if i express myself formally in the way ideas come to my mind, im being overly complicated and people get hung-up on the way i communicate instead of the actual ideas.
It really isn't fair to critique me for me writing style, then.

 

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