Great post, I agree 110%, I would give you karma but I can't yet.
I came back and gave you 1 Karma, you're welcome.
I came back and gave you 1 Karma, you're welcome.
Last edited by TAW_Zeus (2006-04-27 07:22:06)
Nifty post. But then, since I've a thread saying much the same on a more narrow example - I would say that!
+1 all the same.
+1 all the same.
Good post! Defending flags in the rear is a very unpopular job so if you're there you're usually alone (unless there's someone waiting for the tank/APC!) This is most important in a map like Karkand where you can get attacked by armour on two fronts if you don't. As we know most people aren't playing conquest, they're playing deathmatch, and if some captures happen along the way that's just a bonus.
We shouldn't forget though, there is some effort to defend passively with clays and mines, at least it doesn't leave the base completely naked. If I'm playing Karkand as special ops I often grab one of the Humvees, drive over the rise on the east flank (trying not to TK the snipers) drop down beside the train tracks and drive like hell before the punishment kicks in... I can't tell you how often I've been killed by a sneaky engineer who's placed mines at the top of the slope coming up from the water.
One thing about this, given the tactical importance of some bases it might be an idea to have more points for capping and for defending them, say 4 and 2, although this might draw unwelcome attention to them from the perspective of the defenders.
We shouldn't forget though, there is some effort to defend passively with clays and mines, at least it doesn't leave the base completely naked. If I'm playing Karkand as special ops I often grab one of the Humvees, drive over the rise on the east flank (trying not to TK the snipers) drop down beside the train tracks and drive like hell before the punishment kicks in... I can't tell you how often I've been killed by a sneaky engineer who's placed mines at the top of the slope coming up from the water.
One thing about this, given the tactical importance of some bases it might be an idea to have more points for capping and for defending them, say 4 and 2, although this might draw unwelcome attention to them from the perspective of the defenders.
you could have just said 'defend your main base' and saved yourself a lot of typing, since that's basically what the original post amounted to anyway [with a couple of exceptions]
the strategic value of flags is not constant. they change with the ebb and flow of the game. to be sure, hardware assets are important, but it's not paramount. the physical location of a flag on a map in relation to the opposing armies is what gives it its value [think suburbs on karkand].
if by taking a flag you can shift the enemie's focus of attention and split his forces, then it's a very valuable flag. this is especially true on the more linear maps [dragon valley and cleansweep, for example]
battle is a fluid situation, so don't go into it with the idea that you MUST keep any one flag. the main base is a very high priority, obviously, but not the only one.
the strategic value of flags is not constant. they change with the ebb and flow of the game. to be sure, hardware assets are important, but it's not paramount. the physical location of a flag on a map in relation to the opposing armies is what gives it its value [think suburbs on karkand].
if by taking a flag you can shift the enemie's focus of attention and split his forces, then it's a very valuable flag. this is especially true on the more linear maps [dragon valley and cleansweep, for example]
battle is a fluid situation, so don't go into it with the idea that you MUST keep any one flag. the main base is a very high priority, obviously, but not the only one.
I don't want to read all this, but the opening post is so true. Thanks for writing all this down and showing the light to some people.
Absolutely. I have been able to defend some easily, others not so easily. I have also been overrun defending those flags by a well coordinated squad on the other side. You have to know what you need to take those flags when your attacking them. Once you do, defense becomes a little easier as you know what you need to defend against them. However, not everyone on the team should attack or defend the same place. Defense and Offense are important. The tactical flags help reduce ticket count faster. The strategic flags make the job of offense or defense easier, depending on which side you are on.Zaitik wrote:
well do you defend the places yourself?
very well said, good post.
When commander I spend 50% of my time trying to communicate the importance of defending those flags;
my estimate is only 25 % of the time my teammates get the point and help defend, or come to the rescue.
My guess is the majority of the players is to busy "going to battle" - The Karkand Hotel - not realising the battle will be over soon the moment their main base falls to the enemy and the armor is lost also, or with a "blind" commander with destroyed assets.
When commander I spend 50% of my time trying to communicate the importance of defending those flags;
my estimate is only 25 % of the time my teammates get the point and help defend, or come to the rescue.
My guess is the majority of the players is to busy "going to battle" - The Karkand Hotel - not realising the battle will be over soon the moment their main base falls to the enemy and the armor is lost also, or with a "blind" commander with destroyed assets.
I'm with you man. for example
Kubra dam american
we take mec main, and everyone leaves? what the hell is this.. I would sit there in a tank and apc having to defend it the entire round from everyone trying to get it back.. I call for back up and no one shows.
good post man
Kubra dam american
we take mec main, and everyone leaves? what the hell is this.. I would sit there in a tank and apc having to defend it the entire round from everyone trying to get it back.. I call for back up and no one shows.
good post man
nobody bothers to blow up the assets either.bobroonie.bda wrote:
I'm with you man. for example
Kubra dam american
we take mec main, and everyone leaves? what the hell is this.. I would sit there in a tank and apc having to defend it the entire round from everyone trying to get it back.. I call for back up and no one shows.
good post man
Nice post. its really frustrating beeing in a careless team.
I know no one plays Zatar Wetlands, but holding the Central Island for your team is crucial, because it gives you that extra atack helicopter. If the other team has good heli pilots and gunners then denying them one can make a huge difference. To make things ever better, the Central Island is actually pretty easy to defend with infantry because of it's raised location. It makes it harder for armor to hit infantry from all the places they can shoot from. Also, the Farm and the Beach are very important choke points to the main bases and spawn some armor pieces as well. These should be protected as well as the Central Island. A squad of about 4 people should be able to hold either if they know what they're doing.
I think that the Central Island is one of the toughest flags in the whole game to cap. You've got little chance to rush in as a foot soldier. Armor is very difficult cause there is so much open space around it. Only real chance is to rush in (buggy is a good way) and then use squad work (i.e. spawn on squad leader) to take to either take the base or clear the way for armor. I will add this to the orginal post.deject wrote:
I know no one plays Zatar Wetlands, but holding the Central Island for your team is crucial, because it gives you that extra atack helicopter. If the other team has good heli pilots and gunners then denying them one can make a huge difference. To make things ever better, the Central Island is actually pretty easy to defend with infantry because of it's raised location. It makes it harder for armor to hit infantry from all the places they can shoot from. Also, the Farm and the Beach are very important choke points to the main bases and spawn some armor pieces as well. These should be protected as well as the Central Island. A squad of about 4 people should be able to hold either if they know what they're doing.
Ain't that the truth, those main base flags are like watching a slow-motion replay. Even worse on the ones with no good cover and your on foot and no vehicles around.the_heart_attack wrote:
they take longer to capture too, god damn hate trying to take tv station by myself.
takes about 25 minutes.
The one I hate the most is the Dragon Valley Docks flag for the USMC that is one big ass patch of asphalt with no cover. I know technically the USMC has the Essex ucap but that flag sure moves like a main base flag rate.
Just you, your rifle, and your hop/shuffle/spin of "Oh shit why is this flag moving so slow?" dance.
Last edited by Seal 3 (2006-04-28 00:43:24)
Very well put, I'll put your advice into action next time I play. +1superfly_cox wrote:
lots of stuff
Last edited by nikki_lighthouse (2006-04-28 01:17:29)
True I agree. Wow I haven't played Zatar Wetlands for quite a while. Does any servers have this map on rotation anymore?
On wake I'll defend the whole island with the attack chopper If I'm flying solo or with a good pilot.
I hate how most players dont understand the importance of the tank on Mashtuur. 4 times last night I tried to get the guy in my gunners position to get out and steal their tank but nooo he's too stupid to realise.
I don't like armour much but now I realise the importance of it so I tend to try and get it, engineer kit in hand.
What annoys me most is how I create a squad for an engineer to join and oh look, I'm the only one out of 32 people. The rest are snipers are medics.
I hate how most players dont understand the importance of the tank on Mashtuur. 4 times last night I tried to get the guy in my gunners position to get out and steal their tank but nooo he's too stupid to realise.
I don't like armour much but now I realise the importance of it so I tend to try and get it, engineer kit in hand.
What annoys me most is how I create a squad for an engineer to join and oh look, I'm the only one out of 32 people. The rest are snipers are medics.
Normally when I'm capping the docks and I'm alone, I will wait for someone to spawn first, kill them and take what ever vehicle they were waiting for. I'd hope it was an APC because there's enough cover around the docks to make it difficult for a heli to take you out.Seal 3 wrote:
Ain't that the truth, those main base flags are like watching a slow-motion replay. Even worse on the ones with no good cover and your on foot and no vehicles around.the_heart_attack wrote:
they take longer to capture too, god damn hate trying to take tv station by myself.
takes about 25 minutes.
The one I hate the most is the Dragon Valley Docks flag for the USMC that is one big ass patch of asphalt with no cover. I know technically the USMC has the Essex ucap but that flag sure moves like a main base flag rate.
Just you, your rifle, and your hop/shuffle/spin of "Oh shit why is this flag moving so slow?" dance.