BF2S Forums Fire Helen Thomas??

11 Bravo wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The Israelis have made their bed, a bloody, racist, monotheistic, apartheid bed, now they have to lie in it.

why dont the germans have to lay in that bed also then?  eh?  pffffttt........this is a joke.  you guys are such anti-sem's it is sad.

The Germans got their comeuppance didn't they?

Pug wrote:

I'm not quite seeing the parallel between the Nazis and the Americans.  For instance, I don't recall a state of the union address entitled "Indians are mongrels, a plague that we need to be eliminated as they are an inferior race".

Charles Lindbergh wasn't far off, and had enough support that Roosevelt did his best to appease him.

Dilbert_X wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The Israelis have made their bed, a bloody, racist, monotheistic, apartheid bed, now they have to lie in it.

why dont the germans have to lay in that bed also then?  eh?  pffffttt........this is a joke.  you guys are such anti-sem's it is sad.

The Germans got their comeuppance didn't they?

nobody shuns the germans for what they did anymore and yet they fall under the same description that you provided.  so, you make no sense.  now, what could be the difference.  oh ya, one is jews.  hmmm......

Last edited by 11 Bravo (2010-06-10 07:19:05)

Dilbert_X wrote:

Because the Germans had their country levelled 65 years ago, the Israelis are doing their thing today with impunity - thats the difference.

oic....if you say so.

AussieReaper wrote:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; …”

Okay, I'll give you an example.

You are employed at Burger King.  You also have the freedom of speech.

You take the dude's order and say "Here's your fucking number you piece of shit, and I hope you choke on that whopper".

You say this to every customer.


Now, do you get terminated due to a breach in your employment contract?  Or "look out Ma, I'm assistant to the assistant manager at BK now!"?

AussieReaper wrote:

If it had been any other country she expressed such a view on, she would not have lost her job.

Maybe, maybe not.  You can't really say for certain either way.

Another perspective:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/f … 728939.stm

AussieReaper wrote:

Pug wrote:

Now, do you get terminated due to a breach in your employment contract?  Or "look out Ma, I'm assistant to the assistant manager at BK now!"?

Was she asked for her opinion? Did she provide it?

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights -

"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through media regardless of frontiers”

Or is it that in the land of the free, where freedom of speech is guaranteed under the constitution, and under human rights laws, a person who expresses what are deemed to be controversial views is effectively gagged?

If it had been any other country she expressed such a view on, she would not have lost her job.

Imagine if she had said Russians should get out of Georgia and go back to Moscow. Do you think she would have been forced to retire in disgrace? I doubt it...

Disagree on the "land of the free" part and "freedom of opinion" part...on the grounds that ANY comments you make, if the language is such where there's enough backlash to cause a problem with the company's sales.

Agree on the "any other country part" though.  Good point

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

It's like saying "you people" when talking to an ethnic group in America. It doesn't go over well.

Problem is when anyone says 'you Israelis' people jump up and down screaming 'anti-semitism' 'Nazi' etc.
Too bad if it doesn't go over well, they chose to create an apartheid nation.

Had America been founded by a group of people who had been persecuted historically the same way Jews have been persecuted

I thought thats why the founding fathers did leave europe.

The founding fathers didn't leave Europe--they were born in the Colonies (mostly). The Declaration of Independence and Revolution was more about overbearing government than religious persecution.

The Pilgrims left Europe for religious freedom purposes, but they weren't persecuted at nearly the scale of the Jews--particularly from the Europeans. They just weren't being allowed to practice the religion they wanted to practice.

And just because some go foaming at the mouth on both sides of the issue doesn't mean there isn't actually anti-Antisemitism from time to time.

Dilbert_X wrote:

It was pilgrims I was thinking of.

Still, I'd like to know how every race and culture the jews come into contact with is filled with apparent anti-semitism.

haven't you been treated like a second class by the jews? i met several who acted like that towards me. you know, calling me a "goi" among themselves and acting like they'd expect me to do work for them for a bottle of vodka. i of course laughed and sent them straight where sun doesn't shine, but, as a russian saying goes, there no smoke without a fire. it didn't make me an anti-semite - not one bit. actually, several of my close friends are jews, some i'd never told for one if they didn't told me - they have russian names, russian faces and behave like russians in every possible way. but, aparrently, some of these people do think they are the gods chosen - really, they do, and they act accordingly.

Dilbert_X wrote:

It was pilgrims I was thinking of.

Still, I'd like to know how every race and culture the jews come into contact with is filled with apparent anti-semitism.

Yeah...  A lot of it is because Jews have historically been very insular.  Even before the Catholic Church started its own brand of antisemitism in medieval times, Jews had long been in conflict with different neighboring cultures.  The Old Testament talks about the various conflicts between Hebrews and other cultures, and as Shahter mentioned, their religion does tell them they are God's chosen.  That kind of mindset in combination with power isn't likely to lend itself to egalitarian views.

Now, in the modern age, most American Jews are much more secular than Israelis.  Only a small percentage of Jews here are orthodox, and most of them seem to be much more open than how some of their ancestors have been.  Granted, even in my city, you see glimpses of the insular traits.

We have an affluent Jewish community in my city that is gated.  Now, rich people (Jew or gentile) in general like to set up their own isolated communities oftentimes, but it seems like this community in particular went the extra mile by having everything about their lives separated from the outside world.  They have their homes, their schools, and their college all within a gated area of my city.  It seems a bit paranoid and elitist, but at least historically...  it's not that unusual.

But whenever a culture behaves this way, it tends to inspire resentment.  It doesn't justify hatred or violence, but it certainly doesn't prevent it.

A more extreme tendency can be seen with fundamentalist Mormons.  America has a few scattered compounds of these Mormons throughout the interior West, and a few have even made the news with violations of things like polygamy laws and accusations of child abuse.  Even without these issues involved, it's easy for people to view these groups as a little crazy.  If they didn't separate themselves from the rest of society, they'd more likely be accepted by the mainstream.

So, at least in America, I think most Jews have moved away from the insularity that has historically inspired resentment towards them.  Most Jews I've met don't act elitist either.  There seems to be a significant difference in mindset and attitude between Israelis and the rest of the Jewish community.  Non-Israeli Jews seem to be much more reasonable people.

rdx-fx wrote:

Shahter wrote:

but, aparrently, some of these people do think they are the gods chosen - really, they do, and they act accordingly.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Thats what their religion tells them, they act that way, and it causes friction.

well, while we're working in generalities, I'll take the Israeli 'we'll make it work' ethic, over the too common resigned shrug of the shoulders and muttered 'Insha-Allah' of some of their neighbors.

That too, is a source of friction

those religious nutjobs all deserve each other. in the end of the day, israeli religion and ideology is just as fucked up as those of everybody else around them.