Fire Helen Thomas??

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Fire Helen Thomas??

2010-06-23 05:45:10

#126

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7200|Nårvei

FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:

Nope. No broad generalizations/stereotyping/racism in that statement whatsoever. No fucking wonder they wanted to leave Europe.
It's not exactly stereotyping when you have such a unison people ... I'd say Dilberts statement is pretty accurate for Israelis as a people ... how is that racism?
Show where that is Israeli doctrine. Show where that is Jewish doctrine--specifically the "everyone else is here to serve them" part, as every other religion in existence (by and large) believes it is "the chosen one", otherwise, it wouldn't exist as a distinct religion.

So what do you call what Israel have been doing since 1947?

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2010-06-23 06:22:02

#127

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6496|eXtreme to the maX

Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:

It's not exactly stereotyping when you have such a unison people ... I'd say Dilberts statement is pretty accurate for Israelis as a people ... how is that racism?
Show where that is Israeli doctrine. Show where that is Jewish doctrine--specifically the "everyone else is here to serve them" part, as every other religion in existence (by and large) believes it is "the chosen one", otherwise, it wouldn't exist as a distinct religion.
So what do you call what Israel have been doing since 1947?

Exactly, it is Israeli doctrine - by definition - to seize the biblical land of Israel as apparently is their right.

You've said for yourself that the Bible is a bunch of rubbish...now you're going to use it to justify your argument?

They are the ones who believe the bible and torah are historical fact, not me.

The "balance of power" in Israeli politics is held by moderates and center-right groups.

Not really, its held by this guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avigdor_Lieberman
"The vision I would like to see here is the entrenching of the Jewish and the Zionist state. I very much favor democracy, but when there is a contradiction between democratic and Jewish values, the Jewish and Zionist values are more important."

FEOS wrote:
But it is not possible for YOU (and others) to criticize Israel WITHOUT criticizing Jews for some reason (they think they are the "chosen people", "it's their own fault", etc). That is the problem. Which IS antisemitic.

I've said maybe they should have a think about it. Maybe anti-semitism is a myth, maybe people don't like them because they act like asshats wherever they go - the actions of Israel being a good example.

Fuck Israel

2010-06-23 18:57:15

#128

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6801|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:

Show where that is Israeli doctrine. Show where that is Jewish doctrine--specifically the "everyone else is here to serve them" part, as every other religion in existence (by and large) believes it is "the chosen one", otherwise, it wouldn't exist as a distinct religion.
So what do you call what Israel have been doing since 1947?
Exactly, it is Israeli doctrine - by definition - to seize the biblical land of Israel as apparently is their right.

Point--either one of you--to Israeli doctrine that states that the Israelis are "the chosen people" and that "everyone else must serve them". Again, you are confusing Israeli with Jewish immediately after stating that not all Israelis are Jews and not all Jews are Israelis. Certainly not all Jews support Israel...

Your position doesn't hold up under even the most rudimentary examination.

Dilbert_X wrote:
You've said for yourself that the Bible is a bunch of rubbish...now you're going to use it to justify your argument?
They are the ones who believe the bible and torah are historical fact, not me.

But you use it as the basis of your position...and much of those two books has been show to be historical fact, btw. Certainly, many of the parables aren't fact (nor were they ever sold as fact), but archaeology has shown many of the events depicted in the holy texts to have occurred in the times/places described--divine involvement remains to be proven, however.

Dilbert_X wrote:
The "balance of power" in Israeli politics is held by moderates and center-right groups.
Not really, its held by this guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avigdor_Lieberman
"The vision I would like to see here is the entrenching of the Jewish and the Zionist state. I very much favor democracy, but when there is a contradiction between democratic and Jewish values, the Jewish and Zionist values are more important."

Incorrect. He is a member of a coalition government. You know, one that has to contain membership from minority parties in order to have a majority bloc in the legislative branch? Much like the UK has now? He's hardly what one would consider to be holding "the balance of power" in Israel.

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
But it is not possible for YOU (and others) to criticize Israel WITHOUT criticizing Jews for some reason (they think they are the "chosen people", "it's their own fault", etc). That is the problem. Which IS antisemitic.
I've said maybe they should have a think about it. Maybe anti-semitism is a myth, maybe people don't like them because they act like asshats wherever they go - the actions of Israel being a good example.

And how do they act like asshats? By keeping to themselves? Does that somehow damage others? It's strange, when people complain about other ethnic groups not assimilating, they are deemed to be "racist" for not recognizing the right of that ethnic group to maintain their identity, but when Jews do it, they're being "asshats". Again...no wonder they wanted to leave Europe with attitudes like yours prevailing in the early part of the 20th century.

Protip: When you apply the same standard differently depending on the ethnic background of an individual or group of individuals...that's racism, Dilbert. And you're doing it in spades when it comes to Jews.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-06-24 00:18:39

#129

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7200|Nårvei

Again FEOS ... what do you call what Israel has been doing since 1947?

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2010-06-24 02:20:28

#130

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6496|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
And how do they act like asshats? By keeping to themselves?

I would hardly say marching into someone elses country and forcing out the inhabitants at gun-point is 'keeping to themselves'.

Incorrect. He is a member of a coalition government.

And if he walks the government folds immediately, hence he holds the balance of power.

Again, you are confusing Israeli with Jewish immediately after stating that not all Israelis are Jews and not all Jews are Israelis.

Israel is the jewish state, founded on Zionism and with judaism at its centre.

Interesting that a key feature of US democracy is separation of church and state - with Israel they are closely bound together.

FEOS wrote:
They use the actions of Palestinian terrorist groups against Israeli civilians to justify their treatment of the Palestinians.

Not really, the slaughtering started well before the Palestinians had even organised militia and was carried out by Zionist terrorist groups. They brought terrorism to the ME.

Fuck Israel

2010-06-24 07:06:31

#131

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6801|'Murka

Varegg wrote:
Again FEOS ... what do you call what Israel has been doing since 1947?

Repeatedly fighting for existence while oppressing part of their population. That's a pretty succinct summary, I think.

What would you call it?

2010-06-24 07:15:51

#132

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6801|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
And how do they act like asshats? By keeping to themselves?
I would hardly say marching into someone elses country and forcing out the inhabitants at gun-point is 'keeping to themselves'.

That's not quite what happened, and you know it. You're skipping over large swaths of history, the British Mandate, UN recognition, the recognition of hundreds of other countries, etc.

Dilbert_X wrote:
Incorrect. He is a member of a coalition government.
And if he walks the government folds immediately, hence he holds the balance of power.

Incorrect. There are others that could be brought into the coalition if need be. His bloc was just the next biggest, thus the easiest to bring in.

Dilbert_X wrote:
Again, you are confusing Israeli with Jewish immediately after stating that not all Israelis are Jews and not all Jews are Israelis.
Israel is the jewish state, founded on Zionism and with judaism at its centre.

Interesting that a key feature of US democracy is separation of church and state - with Israel they are closely bound together.

So any criticism leveled at Saudi Arabia is therefore leveled at Islam? Any criticism leveled at Iran is therefore leveled at Islam? Pakistan?

Israel is a secularist government, even though the country was founded on the Zionist movement. The same cannot be said of the other countries listed. The religion and the government have been disconnect essentially since the government was created.

The key difference is that most people understand that.

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
They use the actions of Palestinian terrorist groups against Israeli civilians to justify their treatment of the Palestinians.
Not really, the slaughtering started well before the Palestinians had even organised militia and was carried out by Zionist terrorist groups. They brought terrorism to the ME.

More hyperbole. "The slaughtering". The Israelis just started going through Palestinian areas and killing them wantonly, eh? Don't think so. Yes, the historical aspects of the Zionist movement are rife with wrongdoing. But to say that "they brought terrorism to the ME" is utter nonsense. It existed long before Israel (as was shown in other threads to you, Dilbert). Terrorism didn't shit itself into existence in 1947 in the ME.

Last edited by FEOS (2010-06-24 07:16:51)

2010-06-25 03:09:41

#133

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6496|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
Incorrect. There are others that could be brought into the coalition if need be. His bloc was just the next biggest, thus the easiest to bring in.

So why did they pick the extremist fruitcake to be part of the coalition?
More likely he'd walk over to Kadima and then Kadima and Yisrael Beitanu would be the govt - thats the thing, either way he wins - and therefore holds the balance of power.
As I said before, it would be like Obama winning the election, but McCain and the KKK doing a deal forming the govt.

That's not quite what happened, and you know it. You're skipping over large swaths of history, the British Mandate, UN recognition, the recognition of hundreds of other countries, etc.

I'm not skipping over the terrorism, the bombings and ethincally cleansing hundreds of thousands of people from their land at gun-point.

FEOS wrote:
So any criticism leveled at Saudi Arabia is therefore leveled at Islam? Any criticism leveled at Iran is therefore leveled at Islam? Pakistan?

thats not what I'm saying, their argument is that any criticism of Israel is anti-semiticism by default - which is wrong.

The Israelis just started going through Palestinian areas and killing them wantonly, eh?

Thats exactly what they did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus
Try reading it.
"In a matter of seven months, five hundred and thirty one villages were destroyed and eleven urban neighborhoods emptied […] The mass expulsion was accompanied by massacres, rape and [the] imprisonment of men […] in labor camps for periods [of] over a year"

Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the world: "Ye shall blot them out to the last man." "

"In 1940, Lehi proposed intervening in World War II on the side of Nazi Germany. It offered assistance in "transferring" the Jews of Europe, in return for Germany's help in expelling Britain from Mandate Palestine. Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik was sent to Beirut where he met the German official Werner Otto von Hentig. Lubenchik told von Hentig that Lehi had not yet revealed its full power and that they were capable of organizing a whole range of anti-British operations."

"Israel granted a general amnesty to Lehi members on 14 February 1949. In 1980 the group was honored by the institution of the Lehi ribbon, a military decoration awarded "for military service towards the establishment of the State of Israel". Future Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Shamir was among its leaders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks
Looks like terrorism to me, please find examples of Arab terrorism which precede this.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-25 03:15:34)

Fuck Israel

2010-06-25 03:40:56

#134

lowing: Banned; +1,662|7041|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:
I've said maybe they should have a think about it. Maybe anti-semitism is a myth, maybe people don't like them because they act like asshats wherever they go - the actions of Israel being a good example.

Hmmmm, I wonder if I could get away with saying some bullshit like this without Dilbert and the rest of this BF2S think tank screaming racism? I doubt it. Enjoy the pass from your inconsistent and brethren Dilbert.

Last edited by lowing (2010-06-25 03:41:32)

2010-06-27 13:31:30

#135

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6801|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Incorrect. There are others that could be brought into the coalition if need be. His bloc was just the next biggest, thus the easiest to bring in.
So why did they pick the extremist fruitcake to be part of the coalition?
More likely he'd walk over to Kadima and then Kadima and Yisrael Beitanu would be the govt - thats the thing, either way he wins - and therefore holds the balance of power.
As I said before, it would be like Obama winning the election, but McCain and the KKK doing a deal forming the govt.

It's not at all like that. Just more hyperbole. Unfounded hyperbole.

They formed the coalition govt with Beitanu because he had the next biggest bloc. They could have tried to form a coalition of 10 different blocs, but that would've been a fragile government that would've been essentially non-functional. He doesn't hold the balance of power. He holds part of the power, but could easily be replaced by another group--he was just the easier route for Kadima and Likud to take to get a functioning government in the shortest amount of time. Then there's the whole aspect of "representative government". His party holds the third-highest number of seats (barely 15-13 over Labor). It makes sense for the top two to try to make it work with #3 in a coalition.

Dilbert_X wrote:
That's not quite what happened, and you know it. You're skipping over large swaths of history, the British Mandate, UN recognition, the recognition of hundreds of other countries, etc.
I'm not skipping over the terrorism, the bombings and ethincally cleansing hundreds of thousands of people from their land at gun-point.

No, you're skipping over all the stuff I listed. As stated.

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
So any criticism leveled at Saudi Arabia is therefore leveled at Islam? Any criticism leveled at Iran is therefore leveled at Islam? Pakistan?
thats not what I'm saying, their argument is that any criticism of Israel is anti-semiticism by default - which is wrong.

"Their argument". That's the problem. And you don't even see it.

Dilbert_X wrote:
The Israelis just started going through Palestinian areas and killing them wantonly, eh?
Thats exactly what they did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus
Try reading it.
"In a matter of seven months, five hundred and thirty one villages were destroyed and eleven urban neighborhoods emptied […] The mass expulsion was accompanied by massacres, rape and [the] imprisonment of men […] in labor camps for periods [of] over a year"

Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the world: "Ye shall blot them out to the last man." "

"In 1940, Lehi proposed intervening in World War II on the side of Nazi Germany. It offered assistance in "transferring" the Jews of Europe, in return for Germany's help in expelling Britain from Mandate Palestine. Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik was sent to Beirut where he met the German official Werner Otto von Hentig. Lubenchik told von Hentig that Lehi had not yet revealed its full power and that they were capable of organizing a whole range of anti-British operations."

"Israel granted a general amnesty to Lehi members on 14 February 1949. In 1980 the group was honored by the institution of the Lehi ribbon, a military decoration awarded "for military service towards the establishment of the State of Israel". Future Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Shamir was among its leaders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

Let's see if I've got this right:

People get their land arbitrarily taken from them, a splinter group resorts to terrorism to get it back, and the leader of that group emerges to eventually lead those people. Sounds remarkably like the Palestinians. I guess it's only bad when it's teh Joos, eh?

Oh, and there's the part where the Jewish leadership condemned the attacks at Deir Yassin. Not a lot (or any) condemnation of any of the attacks executed by the PLO or Hamas.

Dilbert_X wrote:
Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks
Looks like terrorism to me, please find examples of Arab terrorism which precede this.

Done.

2010-06-28 06:46:08

#136

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6496|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
It makes sense for the top two to try to make it work with #3 in a coalition.

And if he doesn't get his way he'll be off to join the #1 party and form a govt with them.
IIRC Kadima wouldn't support his extremist policies, Likud would so they are in govt, the #2 and #3 parties. Again, it would be like McCain forming an alliance with the KKK.

People get their land arbitrarily taken from them

>2,000 years ago, thats the thing, violence against people who aren't even the distant descendants of the perpetrators can't really be justified, compared with violence against the actual perpetrators of a crime now can it?

Oh, and there's the part where the Jewish leadership condemned the attacks at Deir Yassin.

You clearly missed this bit

"Israel granted a general amnesty to Lehi members on 14 February 1949. In 1980 the group was honored by the institution of the Lehi ribbon, a military decoration awarded "for military service towards the establishment of the State of Israel". Future Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Shamir was among its leaders.

"for military service towards the establishment of the State of Israel" sounds more like an endorsement than a condemnation TBH.

Done

Wow, one event prior to 1948? wWich could be described as nationals repelling invaders as opposed to terrorism.

Doesn't really compare with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-28 06:54:16)

Fuck Israel

2010-06-28 07:07:01

#137

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7200|Nårvei

FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Again FEOS ... what do you call what Israel has been doing since 1947?
Repeatedly fighting for existence while oppressing part of their population. That's a pretty succinct summary, I think.

What would you call it?

Fighting for existence is stretching it I believe, the Palestinians is the ones that have been fighting for existence ... the Israelis have merely opressed a huge part of their population that didn't fit in their plan of a country for Jews only ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2010-06-28 07:10:07

#138

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6496|eXtreme to the maX

They aren't fighting for 'existence', merely the right to call someone else's country theirs.

Fuck Israel

2010-06-28 07:14:08

#139

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6887

we really do need an "Isreal only topics" thread/sub-forum whatever . . .

2010-06-28 19:54:01

#140

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6801|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
It makes sense for the top two to try to make it work with #3 in a coalition.
And if he doesn't get his way he'll be off to join the #1 party and form a govt with them.
IIRC Kadima wouldn't support his extremist policies, Likud would so they are in govt, the #2 and #3 parties. Again, it would be like McCain forming an alliance with the KKK.

Have you lost it? He doesn't get his way. #1 and #2 do. They hold the balance of power. He's a coattail rider.

Dilbert_X wrote:
People get their land arbitrarily taken from them
>2,000 years ago, thats the thing, violence against people who aren't even the distant descendants of the perpetrators can't really be justified, compared with violence against the actual perpetrators of a crime now can it?

So there's a statute of limitations on this stuff? I guess three generations is plenty, then. Palestinians need to just STFU and leave...just because they're Palestinians. That's your position regarding the Jews, so it must be OK.

Dilbert_X wrote:
Oh, and there's the part where the Jewish leadership condemned the attacks at Deir Yassin.
You clearly missed this bit
"Israel granted a general amnesty to Lehi members on 14 February 1949. In 1980 the group was honored by the institution of the Lehi ribbon, a military decoration awarded "for military service towards the establishment of the State of Israel". Future Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Shamir was among its leaders.
"for military service towards the establishment of the State of Israel" sounds more like an endorsement than a condemnation TBH.

Don't think he was part of the Deir Yassin attacks. Perhaps you should read more about that, yourself.

And even if he was, how is that any different than Yasser Arafat? It's not. Except Arafat wasn't a Jew, so I guess he's OK...right?

Dilbert_X wrote:
Done
Wow, one event prior to 1948? wWich could be described as nationals repelling invaders as opposed to terrorism.

Doesn't really compare with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks

Which could be described as people fighting for their homeland that was arbitrarily taken from them. It's OK to classify what the Palestinians do in that way, so...oh, that's right. They're JEWS.

Varegg wrote:
Fighting for existence is stretching it I believe

Perhaps you should read up a bit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

2010-06-28 20:09:49

#141

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6496|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
Have you lost it? He doesn't get his way. #1 and #2 do. They hold the balance of power. He's a coattail rider.

No, he doesn't get his way he walks and #2 are no longer in govt - it really is that simple.
From those well known anti-semites at the Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … tions.html

Former nightclub bouncer Lieberman set to hold balance of power after Israeli elections
A former nightclub bouncer viewed as an anti-Arab extremist is the main political beneficiary of the Gaza war and could hold the balance of power in a new parliament after elections.
When the Israeli public roared approval for the assault on Gaza, it was expected that the direct political beneficiaries would be the leaders of the ruling centrist Kadima Party.

But opinion polls published on Monday indicated that the Right-wing Avigdor Lieberman, who emigrated to Israel from Moldova in 1978, is poised to win 16 seats for his Yisrael Beitanu (literally “our Israel”) party in the general election on Feb 10.

The result, when combined with the 28 seats forecast for the Right-wing Likud Party headed by Benjamin Netanyahu, the former prime minister who is nicknamed "Bibi", would put a Right-wing coalition ahead of the current centrist government.

Kadima, led by Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister, would be relegated to opposition.

"Whereas until today the polls were predicting a Bibi government, from now on we must say: a Bibi-Lieberman government," said the daily newspaper Ma'ariv.

The prospects for US President Barack Obama, and his new Middle East peace envoy George Mitchell, are worrying.Not only does Mr Netanyahu dismiss the peace efforts of the international community, but he might depend on a man viewed as an extremist for his parliamentary majority.

Mr Lieberman, 50, has a long history of verbal attacks on Arabs - not just Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories, but his fellow citizens in Israel. In 2003, he was reported to have suggested that Palestinian prisoners being released from Israeli jails should be bussed to the Dead Sea and drowned.

In the Israeli parliament, the Knesset, three years later, he called for the execution of any parliamentarians who met members of the then Hamas-led Palestinian government.

"World War II ended with the Nuremberg trials," he said. "The heads of the Nazi regime, along with their collaborators, were executed. I hope this will be the fate of the collaborators in the Knesset."

The comment was widely regarded as an implicit attack on Arab members of the Knesset, leading some Jewish members to denounce him for "racism".

Mr Lieberman has always counted on the support of the one million or so Russian-speakers who immigrated to Israel in large numbers after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

But Mr Lieberman’s forthright manner – seen by supporters as “straight talking” – has started to attract a growing number of other Israelis, many of them born in the US, who see him as the champion of Israeli nationalism.

Two star recruits to his party Yisrael Beitanu are Danny Alayon, a former Israeli ambassador to America and Uzi Landau, who like Mr Lieberman was once a lieutenant of Mr Netanyahu.

Alone among leading Israeli politicians, Mr Lieberman is a settler - one of nearly 500,000 Israelis who live on land seized from Palestinians in the Occupied Territories in contravention of international law.

So there you have it, #2 and #3 form a coalition, #2 are beholden to an extremist - even by Israeli standards - and #1 are not in govt.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-28 20:11:18)

Fuck Israel

2010-06-28 20:44:44

#142

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6801|'Murka

You're basing your argument on a speculation piece for elections that won't happen for 7 months?

That piece doesn't explain at all why Netanyahu would break from his coalition with Labor (#4) to side with Lieberman.

Nothing antisemitic at all about that article. I don't know why you would cast such aspersions about that media source, Dilbert.

2010-06-28 20:58:58

#143

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6496|eXtreme to the maX

Mr Lieberman, 50, has a long history of verbal attacks on Arabs - not just Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories, but his fellow citizens in Israel. In 2003, he was reported to have suggested that Palestinian prisoners being released from Israeli jails should be bussed to the Dead Sea and drowned.

No jew would even think such a thing, they love their arab brethren, to suggest otherwise is anti-semitic.

Fuck Israel

2010-06-28 21:36:51

#144

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6795|North Carolina

Admittedly, Lieberman is a collossal douchebag. He's the only reason I didn't vote for Gore back in 2000.

2010-06-29 00:11:31

#145

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7200|Nårvei

FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Fighting for existence is stretching it I believe
Perhaps you should read up a bit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

Perhaps you should read more than just wikipedia and dig in some of the history about how the Israelis have treated their Palestinian population every day since they hijacked their lands piece by piece ... try to grasp both sides of the conflict rather than your unconditional brainwashed love for the Israelis ...

You guys claim to support Israel to bring stability to the ME, let me tell you FEOS ... your company have failed utterly at that job since WW2 ... just like you failed in South America, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan ... when will you realize the reasons why so many hate the US with a passion?

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2010-06-29 00:25:01

#146

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,068|7162|PNW

Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Fighting for existence is stretching it I believe
Perhaps you should read up a bit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
Perhaps you should read more than just wikipedia and dig in some of the history about how the Israelis have treated their Palestinian population every day since they hijacked their lands piece by piece ... try to grasp both sides of the conflict rather than your unconditional brainwashed love for the Israelis ...

You guys claim to support Israel to bring stability to the ME, let me tell you FEOS ... your company have failed utterly at that job since WW2 ... just like you failed in South America, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan ... when will you realize the reasons why so many hate the US with a passion?

Now I'm curious about the edit history on those articles.

2010-06-29 03:50:01

#147

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6801|'Murka

Varegg wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Fighting for existence is stretching it I believe
Perhaps you should read up a bit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
Perhaps you should read more than just wikipedia and dig in some of the history about how the Israelis have treated their Palestinian population every day since they hijacked their lands piece by piece ... try to grasp both sides of the conflict rather than your unconditional brainwashed love for the Israelis ...

You guys claim to support Israel to bring stability to the ME, let me tell you FEOS ... your company have failed utterly at that job since WW2 ... just like you failed in South America, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan ... when will you realize the reasons why so many hate the US with a passion?

I've read more than just wikipedia, Varegg. I simply posted those as a starting point to refer to those wars because you said "fighting for existence is stretching it" when that's exactly what happened in those conflicts, particularly the first and last.

I'm not arguing that the Israelis don't mistreat the Palestinian population and shouldn't come to the negotiation table. What infuriates me is the overt racism that is present in so many Europeans toward Jews that has been there for centuries and still exists today--it's just masked as pro-Palestinian/anti-Israeli at this point. You peel a micrometer off of it, and the old hatred is still there--not against Israel, but against Jews. "They" need to leave. "They" think they are the chosen people. "They" need to look inward to figure out why "they've" been persecuted.

When someone calls an anti-Israeli person on it, they throw up the same platitudes "'they' took Palestinian land, 'they' engaged in terrorist acts, 'they' oppress Palestinian people..."; completely ignoring that "they" have been through much of the same.

And when you apply the exact same method of thought to the Palestinians, you're called a racist, non-thinking, Israel-loving, blah blah blah.

Interesting how that works.

And if you want to get into failed geopolitical meddling, let's do that, Europe. You don't want to go there.

2010-06-29 06:09:28

#148

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6496|eXtreme to the maX

completely ignoring that "they" have been through much of the same

Point is, that doesn't give them a free pass to do the same to someone else, really it should be anathema to them - its incredible it isn't.

"They" need to look inward to figure out why "they've" been persecuted.

They need to come up with an explanation better than global 'anti-semiticism'.

And if you want to get into failed geopolitical meddling, let's do that, Europe. You don't want to go there.

We gave up on that, the US needs to try going cold turkey now.

I'm not arguing that the Israelis don't mistreat the Palestinian population and shouldn't come to the negotiation table.

Thats the funny thing, the pro-Israeli camp never suggests the Israelis should do any more than 'negotiate', while the Palestinians can go die. Anyone who disagrees is anti-semitic.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-29 06:29:37)

Fuck Israel

2010-06-29 06:20:33

#149

Bertster7: Confused Pothead; +1,101|6971|SE London

FEOS wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Again FEOS ... what do you call what Israel has been doing since 1947?
Repeatedly fighting for existence while oppressing part of their population. That's a pretty succinct summary, I think.

What would you call it?

What about the actions of the Jewish agency during the 30's?

A campaign described by both external observers and Jewish critics as a "systematic regime of economic deprivement"? A campaign which led to riots by the indigenous Arab populace which triggered the Zionist terror attacks of the 30's and the creation of a number of terrorist agencies to protect and enforce the agenda of the Jewish agency.

It's the fact that the Arabs were happy to coexist from the very beginning but the Zionist immigrants didn't see things the same way that caused the real problems and really highlights who is to blame here. The only reason they were fighting for their existence at any point last century in Israel was due to their own actions - according to accounts from a huge variety of sources.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2010-06-29 06:24:31)

2010-06-29 06:31:10

#150

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6496|eXtreme to the maX

The arabs and jews had coexisted peacefully for the last 2,000 years in Palestine.
It was the Zionist plan to take over and expel the arabs which caused the problem.

FEOS wrote:
I don't know why you would cast such aspersions about that media source, Dilbert.

The point is The Telegraph is the most pro-Israel/Zionist opinion outlet there is, after Fox News.
If they think Avigdor Lieberman is a dangerous extremist then he's probably a lot worse than that.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-29 06:44:18)

Fuck Israel

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