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JohnG@lt wrote:

jord wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

I'm not really opposed to the age 21 drinking age. Most 18,19,20 year olds are binge drinking retards and anything that potentially keeps them out of a car while drunk is fine with me. By the time a person turns 21 they have some sense to them.

I've always maintained the European view (which is rare) that drinking responsibly at younger ages with family eases people into alcohol. Rather than a "Ive just scored a bottle of absynth LEZ DO IT".

With regards to my last post I think people are only annoyed at the age laws when it affects them. When someone becomes old enough to drink legally I imagine they become appathetic to the "lower it to 16/17/18" cause.

I'm not a teetotaler, but I don't drink all that often. I'll have a few beers in a social setting, and I normally have beer in the fridge, but my girlfriend is much more likely to drink it than I am.

Easing a person into alcohol is all well and good, but I don't really see it as a necessity (drinking that is). The problem is that, at least here in America, it doesn't matter how good of a job you've done parenting, as soon as your kid is off to school he or she will more than likely dive right into the binge drinking culture that is found on nearly every single college campus in America (excepting, perhaps, the hardcore religious universities like BYU). Until that binge drinking culture goes away, there's no way that I could support lowering the drinking age. There's just too much risk involved.

Of course but it's those first encounters with alcohol with nobody responsible around that are the most dangerous. People don't know their limits and if somebody goes to college and downs 2 bottles of Vodka it's going to end a lot worse than if they'd drank before and have an idea of the amount they can drink and the resulting effect.

ghettoperson wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

jord wrote:

There seems to be an overwelming majority of Americans that agree your age of consent and age to buy alcohol should be lowered. I wonder why in a democratic nation nothing has changed given such support... Are you Americans in line with your fellow countrymen or out of touch with them?

I'm not really opposed to the age 21 drinking age. Most 18,19,20 year olds are binge drinking retards and anything that potentially keeps them out of a car while drunk is fine with me. By the time a person turns 21 they have some sense to them.

I resent that. I'm a few short months shy of 22, and I'd like to think I am just as much a binge drinking retard as any 18 year old.

Although drink driving doesn't strike me as being anything like the problem over here that it is in the States. If anything I'd put that down to your vastly inferior public transport system. If a President really wanted to make drink driving deaths stop, they'd invest heavily in building up a good nationwide public transport system. Whilst they have to pay $50 to get home in a cab, people are going to risk it and drive. Because people are stupid.

It's regional here Ghetto. I've known a lot of drunk driving incidents that have ended just fine and well. I think the drunk drivers here arent as massively over the limit as over the pond. In general of course.

*assumptions made from watching worlds wildest police videos

ghettoperson wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

jord wrote:

There seems to be an overwelming majority of Americans that agree your age of consent and age to buy alcohol should be lowered. I wonder why in a democratic nation nothing has changed given such support... Are you Americans in line with your fellow countrymen or out of touch with them?

I'm not really opposed to the age 21 drinking age. Most 18,19,20 year olds are binge drinking retards and anything that potentially keeps them out of a car while drunk is fine with me. By the time a person turns 21 they have some sense to them.

I resent that. I'm a few short months shy of 22, and I'd like to think I am just as much a binge drinking retard as any 18 year old.

Although drink driving doesn't strike me as being anything like the problem over here that it is in the States. If anything I'd put that down to your vastly inferior public transport system. If a President really wanted to make drink driving deaths stop, they'd invest heavily in building up a good nationwide public transport system. Whilst they have to pay $50 to get home in a cab, people are going to risk it and drive. Because people are stupid.

Most local cab rides are $5. Many cab companies offer free rides to people too drunk to drive home (they are compensated by insurance companies).

Our public transportation system is fine.

I thought Galt was all about small government anyway?

ghettoperson wrote:

I thought Galt was all about small government anyway?

I am. This is a case of preventing people from doing harm to each other. I don't care what a person does to themself, I care about their impact towards others.

jord wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

jord wrote:

Of course but it's those first encounters with alcohol with nobody responsible around that are the most dangerous. People don't know their limits and if somebody goes to college and downs 2 bottles of Vodka it's going to end a lot worse than if they'd drank before and have an idea of the amount they can drink and the resulting effect.

To be perfectly honest, I did my binge drinking while in high school and ended up with alcohol poisoning. The drinking age doesn't stop kids from drinking, just from drinking in public and purchasing it themselves. I don't know about you, but I get annoyed by youthful exuberance coupled with alcohol. It just leads to fights and other stupidity which happily is kept out of pubs here in America for the most part.

It would be hypocritical for me to comment on youthful exuberance as I'm not quite the old timer as you . Men are men, I've seen fights between all ages. Not too long ago (before the british elections) I saw a street fight with about 20 men, all looking in their 20's to 30's. I'm pretty sure one's still in a coma. Men go into a Neanderthol, testosterone mentality no matter what their age.

From what I understand, those types of fights are fairly common in the UK. Brawls in bars over here are fairly rare.

JohnG@lt wrote:

jord wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

To be perfectly honest, I did my binge drinking while in high school and ended up with alcohol poisoning. The drinking age doesn't stop kids from drinking, just from drinking in public and purchasing it themselves. I don't know about you, but I get annoyed by youthful exuberance coupled with alcohol. It just leads to fights and other stupidity which happily is kept out of pubs here in America for the most part.

It would be hypocritical for me to comment on youthful exuberance as I'm not quite the old timer as you . Men are men, I've seen fights between all ages. Not too long ago (before the british elections) I saw a street fight with about 20 men, all looking in their 20's to 30's. I'm pretty sure one's still in a coma. Men go into a Neanderthol, testosterone mentality no matter what their age.

From what I understand, those types of fights are fairly common in the UK. Brawls in bars over here are fairly rare.

I wouldn't say common but I haven't lived anywhere else so I wouldn't know. I live in a depressing, dead end,detroit esque shithole so my posts don't represent the UK. I should have that as a disclaimer in my sig infact...

ghettoperson wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

I resent that. I'm a few short months shy of 22, and I'd like to think I am just as much a binge drinking retard as any 18 year old.

Although drink driving doesn't strike me as being anything like the problem over here that it is in the States. If anything I'd put that down to your vastly inferior public transport system. If a President really wanted to make drink driving deaths stop, they'd invest heavily in building up a good nationwide public transport system. Whilst they have to pay $50 to get home in a cab, people are going to risk it and drive. Because people are stupid.

Most local cab rides are $5. Many cab companies offer free rides to people too drunk to drive home (they are compensated by insurance companies).

Our public transportation system is fine.

Really? This is going on from what other people have told me, living in the US if they go out to a bar it'll be a $40ish cab ride home. Maybe if you live in Bumfuck, NE taxis are that cheap, but in most cities cabs are going to be expensive.

With the exception of the NYC subway, I can't say I've been very impressed with public transport in the US. It seemed incredibly infrequent and full of gangbangers.

If they live in bumfuck egypt and it costs them $40 to take a cab home, how exactly would it be economical to have a public transportation system installed for them? Economies of scale dictate that public transportation only works in highly urbanized environments.

You do understand that while the US has many large cities, they are all hundreds of miles away from each other? I live in NYC and the nearest large cities are Philadelphia and Boston. By car, Philly is three hours away and Boston is five. Go further west and the cities get much further apart. If someone lives in a one horse town and it takes them twenty minutes to drive to the nearest bar, of course it will cost them $40 to take a cab home. Counter to that is if they were to drive home, the likelihood of them getting into an accident with another vehicle is rather low. They're more likely to end up in a ditch or wrapped around a tree.

JohnG@lt wrote:

jord wrote:

There seems to be an overwelming majority of Americans that agree your age of consent and age to buy alcohol should be lowered. I wonder why in a democratic nation nothing has changed given such support... Are you Americans in line with your fellow countrymen or out of touch with them?

I'm not really opposed to the age 21 drinking age. Most 18,19,20 year olds are binge drinking retards and anything that potentially keeps them out of a car while drunk is fine with me. By the time a person turns 21 they have some sense to them.

I will use yor arguement for their position.

JohnG@lt wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us8OhI-OTHg

I just said New York as an example, as I assumed it would be expensive. People who have told me this live in various parts of LA. I've taken the bus in the Chicago area and Las Vegas, and it seemed really, really infrequent.

JohnG@lt wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

I thought Galt was all about small government anyway?

I am. This is a case of preventing people from doing harm to each other. I don't care what a person does to themself, I care about their impact towards others.

There are laws already against this, they apply to persons under 18 just as much adults. Any more would be

JohnG@lt wrote:

redundant and silly and only meant to make the user 'feel' safer rather than be actually safer.(from another thread)

just replace "user" with "society" and I can use YOUR arguement here.

Last edited by nlsme1 (2010-06-25 09:18:48)

nlsme1 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

I thought Galt was all about small government anyway?

I am. This is a case of preventing people from doing harm to each other. I don't care what a person does to themself, I care about their impact towards others.

There are laws already against this, they apply to persons under 18 just as much adults. Any more would be

JohnG@lt wrote:

redundant and silly and only meant to make the user 'feel' safer rather than be actually safer.(from another thread)

just replace "user" with "society" and I can use YOUR arguement here.

You're like a gnat, buzzing around the argument, not making any points, just taking shots at concepts you fail to grasp.

I'll spell it out for you. The only laws that should exist are laws that prevent people from doing harm to one another. Since, in this argument, you can't say 'Yes, you can go to a liquor store, buy liquor, and drink it at home where you won't do anyone but yourself harm' without also allowing a statistically significant portion of the population from doing the same, getting in a car and causing injury to others, or going out to a bar and starting brawls, the better option is to limit the entire populations consumption of alcohol until they've reached an age where they are statistically more likely to be mature enough to handle alcohol. Kids are retarded, have no wisdom, and think they are immortal. Subjecting the rest of us to the threat they cause while intoxicated is something that should be prevented, because the likelihood of them causing harm to others is exponentially higher than any other age group.