BF2S Forums What can be done with out-of-control government PenSions? ($200k/year)

youre right.  lets stop paying our military after they retire too.

Uzique wrote:

i always thought one of the main incentives to work hard, long hours in the public sector was favourable pensions.

it's one of the financial incentives in performing a job or fulfilling a role that gives to the community, as well as your bank-balance.

cut back on the amounts but don't trash public-sector pensions. it's a good state instrument.

Yeah, but they do get a bit silly.

Look at the reforms they're making to public sector redundancy payments that the unions are moaning about. At present public sector workers can get upto 5 years salary in redundancy payments. Considering you don't have to pay any tax on redundancy, that's shedloads.

Yes there should be benefits for working in the public sector, but not so wildly out of line with what is affordable or justifiable.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Uzique wrote:

i always thought one of the main incentives to work hard, long hours in the public sector was favourable pensions.

it's one of the financial incentives in performing a job or fulfilling a role that gives to the community, as well as your bank-balance.

cut back on the amounts but don't trash public-sector pensions. it's a good state instrument.

From the artical
Despite his indictment on corruption charges and his conviction last year for witness tampering, Carona pulled in a $215,000 pension for 2009. 

So what do we do about this?

Pass a law which says public service employees don't get ridiculous pensions.
Pension is also reduced in event of misconduct in office.

Or just make them buy commercial pensions/annuities like everyone else.

I'm not an expert on this, but its possible that some of these government workers have a state retirement plan which was negotiated by the union to which they belong.  So the plan the sheriff is under is probably the same plan for the entire force.  So to change the plan, you'd also need to sell it to the cop who works night court as well.  I would argue the cops' union probably has pretty strong bargaining power.

I know this is the case in my town in Texas, where the city is looking at renegotiating with the police regarding their retirement plan.  Even some simple changes involve the entire union to agree.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

From the artical
Despite his indictment on corruption charges and his conviction last year for witness tampering, Carona pulled in a $215,000 pension for 2009. 

So what do we do about this?

Pass a law which says public service employees don't get ridiculous pensions.
Pension is also reduced in event of misconduct in office.

Or just make them buy commercial pensions/annuities like everyone else.

How about make a law stated that if you abuse your position, you have to give the salary back and forfeit your pension?

A lot of cops get their ranks busted down a lot just before they retire. That really fucks with their pension plans.

Pug wrote:

I'm not an expert on this, but its possible that some of these government workers have a state retirement plan which was negotiated by the union to which they belong.  So the plan the sheriff is under is probably the same plan for the entire force.  So to change the plan, you'd also need to sell it to the cop who works night court as well.  I would argue the cops' union probably has pretty strong bargaining power.

I know this is the case in my town in Texas, where the city is looking at renegotiating with the police regarding their retirement plan.  Even some simple changes involve the entire union to agree.

You can't touch their pension plans. The contracts were negotiated in good faith. Should future contracts be scrutinized more closely by the public? Yes. There isn't anything we can do about the ones already on the books though.

jord wrote:

Is law enforcment easy to get into in the states?

You just have to be gay, I think.

Protip: Join the UK police, then come to Aus. Pay is lower here but beer is cheap and the girls are brown and fizzy.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-07-12 06:39:44)

jord wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

jord wrote:

Is law enforcment easy to get into in the states?

You just have to be gay, I think.

Well I can take some valium or something and just take it, but sober of thought I'm not of homosexual tendancies.

Pretty sure valium isn't a lubricant.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Pug wrote:

I'm not an expert on this, but its possible that some of these government workers have a state retirement plan which was negotiated by the union to which they belong.  So the plan the sheriff is under is probably the same plan for the entire force.  So to change the plan, you'd also need to sell it to the cop who works night court as well.  I would argue the cops' union probably has pretty strong bargaining power.

I know this is the case in my town in Texas, where the city is looking at renegotiating with the police regarding their retirement plan.  Even some simple changes involve the entire union to agree.

You can't touch their pension plans. The contracts were negotiated in good faith. Should future contracts be scrutinized more closely by the public? Yes. There isn't anything we can do about the ones already on the books though.

Well yes and no.

You can make some changes that impact the future liability of the pensions.  With pensions, the city has to put some matching funds down according to some relatively new rules.  These matching funds are anywhere from 80-90% of the pension cost. 

So focusing on the guy who just retired isn't really a huge issue.  It's the guy who's currently working and might get that $250k when retires in 15 years, and the six guys next to him, etc.

What I'm getting at is most of these pensions have the exact same % and actuarial tables for the sheriff and Bull, the night court cop.  If you can draw a line between highly compensated officers and the chattel, then the matching $$$ plummets dramatically.

For instance, this issue for my town equates to 55% of the city budget...and negiotiations are coming up....

So just to be clear: the problem is the new pension matching rules.  "Problem" isn't really the right term though.  The reason for the change in accounting?  See the auto industry.

Just saying...they can't collect if they are dead.

Pug wrote:

Yeah, so if the state can renegotiate a change between highly compensated and the chattel...California is saved.

It's worked in a few other cities.  But it depends on the willingness of the union.

Well, they wouldn't be socialist brothers in arms fighting against the man anymore if they dumped the blanket pay scales

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

From the artical
Despite his indictment on corruption charges and his conviction last year for witness tampering, Carona pulled in a $215,000 pension for 2009. 

So what do we do about this?

Pass a law which says public service employees don't get ridiculous pensions.
Pension is also reduced in event of misconduct in office.

Or just make them buy commercial pensions/annuities like everyone else.

In my eyes, JFK goes down as one of the worst presidents in American history because he signed Executive Order 10925 saddling us with Equal Opportunity and unionized federal employees in one fell swoop. Public servants should never have been allowed to unionize. He also gave us the Bay of Pigs and Vietnam

I wouldn't say he's the worst in history, but he's certainly far more flawed than most people seem to realize.

And yes...  Public employees should NEVER be allowed to unionize.  We pay for the fuckers, so they should be subject to us, not us being subject to them.