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2006-05-02 12:46:55
.:ronin:.|Patton
Respekct dad i love u always
+946|7290|Marathon, Florida Keys

Torin wrote:

Funny, as soon as I post saying that someone admitting to having stat padded last night, and detailing his experience, should have his stats reset.... someone drops me -1 karma. Nice. Good to know we have such a standup community here.

Well, I only had 1 karma anyways, but still!
Now you get -1 from me every day untill the day i die for saying he should get reset for 2 hours of fun, he payed 50$ for the game he should be able to play how he wants without getting reset by someone at EA who rubs his greasy ass nose all over his moniter all day resetting peoples stats all day. Im sure people get bored of the regular game and want something different. AND you, dont harass people for how they play for fun, it pisses me off when i see someone say "omg you played 2 hrs on a k&p so you should get your whole 400hrs whipped!1!1" he doesent play on your account, he doesnt have anything to do with you, so piss off and let him play his game and you play yours. Accually ive played on a K&P with a different account(ive worked to long on this one to risk it on a knife/pistol) and it is extremely fun, you should make a dummy account and see how awesome it is for yourself.

I do agree on 1 thing-- If your doing it for a badge, thats pretty gay and i'd feel cheated out if someone got theres on there 1st try, it took me 2 weeks to get it, and i ended up getting it on a 10min round on wake island driving around in DPV's jumping out and knifing people before they knew what hit them, now THAT gave me a rush lol i finished within 15secs of the round.

If your doing it for fun-- I got no problem with it, my advice tho is make a dummy account and go on, because you dont want a bunch of 10 year old crybabies reporting your good account to bf2rankedservers.com and get it wiped just because you were having fun for a hour or 2.
https://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/patton1337/stats.jpg
2006-05-02 12:52:02
Torin
Member
+52|7173

=NAA=Slyfox wrote:

Torin wrote:

No, in fact, I think you should have your stats reset for stat padding.
...And the funny thing is, what I posted is totally legal under the ROE. If you were on a Ranked 64 player server with 64 people, and everyone but you pulled out thier knives, then according to your logic, all 63 would have to be reset for "stat padding". Yep, give this guy a college degree, I believe he's got this whole thing logically down. Lets have a stat reset for anyone even caught using thier Knife of Pistol during a game!

LOL.
Before I completely pick your post apart and detail in simple terms how wrong you are, let's start with the following:

1) At the very beginning of the ROE, the line following the header "GLOBALLY ENFORCED RANKED SERVER RULES", we have the following text: "These are rules that all administrators and players using ranked servers are expected to observe and are set by EA, BF2RS under the EULA/TOS/RSA/ROE."

All administrators and players using ranked servers are expected to observe. That includes me, you and everyone else playing the game.

2) To quote the ROE, section 1.8:

"§1.8 Players may not use or exploit game mechanisms to artificially boost their score ("stats padding") and Server administrators may not knowingly allow or encourage this activity on their servers.

This would include but not limited to:
§ Knife-Pistol-Revive
§ Knife-Pistol only Servers
§ Knife only Servers"

Players may not use or exploit game mechanisms to artifically boost their score. Yes, no server admins were there enforcing the exploitation of game mechanics as you so kindly admitting to doing, but that does not mean that you as a player have no responsibility in the matter.

What you posted is entirely against the ROE, being that you did indeed exploit game mechanisms to artificially boost your score by agreeing to follow the "rule" of knife/pistol only on that particular server, and enforcing it through the kick-vote method. The administrator may not be responsible for your actions and perhaps could not get his server shutdown as a result, but you as a player are still responsible for your actions. Every person that participating in the kick-voting of someone that did not follow your pistol/knife "rule" can be considered a player exploiting game mechanics. Perhaps not everyone on that server can be said to have exploited game mechanics, but at least everyone who used the kick-vote to enforce the pistol/knife only rule, can absolutely be held responsible for exploiting, and as a result, have their stats wiped.

And I already have a college degree, thank you very much.

I did not even remotely suggest that everyone caught using a knife or pistol should have their stats reset, just people like you who abuse the game mechanics to artficially inflate your stats, and used in-game mechanics to enforce it. If 10 people on a server are all happily knifing and shooting each other with a pistol, with no admin enforcing anything, fine. When a guy comes in, takes out his M16A2 and starts taking people down, and someone votes to have him kicked, that is the start of the exploitation. If I cannot join your game and freely use every weapon or vehicle available to me because I get vote kicked by a bunch of stat padders who insist on knife/pistol only, that's where you draw the line. Prior to the kick-vote, you were just playing along. After you voted to kick me for using a machine gun, every single person that voted Yes would be voting to support the exploitation of the system.

The idea behind the ROE is to prevent people from abusing the stat system, and to prevent admins from abusing ranked servers. You were in clear violation of the ROE once you prevented someone from playing on the server because they did not want to go along with rules (pistol/knife only) that are against the ROE.
2006-05-02 13:02:44
Torin
Member
+52|7173

.:ronin:.|Patton wrote:

Torin wrote:

Funny, as soon as I post saying that someone admitting to having stat padded last night, and detailing his experience, should have his stats reset.... someone drops me -1 karma. Nice. Good to know we have such a standup community here.

Well, I only had 1 karma anyways, but still!
Now you get -1 from me every day untill the day i die for saying he should get reset for 2 hours of fun, he payed 50$ for the game he should be able to play how he wants without getting reset by someone at EA who rubs his greasy ass nose all over his moniter all day resetting peoples stats all day. Im sure people get bored of the regular game and want something different. AND you, dont harass people for how they play for fun, it pisses me off when i see someone say "omg you played 2 hrs on a k&p so you should get your whole 400hrs whipped!1!1" he doesent play on your account, he doesnt have anything to do with you, so piss off and let him play his game and you play yours. Accually ive played on a K&P with a different account(ive worked to long on this one to risk it on a knife/pistol) and it is extremely fun, you should make a dummy account and see how awesome it is for yourself.
How nice, someone blatantly supporting stat padding, and opposing free speech against those who would break the rules. You know what? If he wanted to have fun on a pistol/knife server, he can go to an UNRANKED pistol/knife server and have fun until the cows come home. All he has done, and all you are doing is supporting stat padding. Give me all the negative karma you want, but no matter how you or he spins it, you're both support stat padders. You abuse the system, you get reset, simple as that. I don't care, www.bf2rankedservers.com doesn't care, and EA doesn't care that he only did it for "2 hours of fun". The simple fact is that he did it. Yes, we all paid $50 for the game, however, thanks to the EULA, that DOES NOT give us the right to abuse the system for personal pleasure.

I'm not harassing people for playing for fun, I'm bringing to light the fact that this guy is an admitted stat padder, and showing him, and everyone else, why. If your idea of fun is doing something that DOES NOT break the ROE, then have a ball. But if your idea of fun is downloading the latest MSX hacks and going on ranked servers and cheating 63 other people out of a fair game, is that alright, just because it's fun? Hell no it isn't, and neither is stat padding.

I've played them once or twice on unranked servers, because I firmly believe in following the rules when it comes to this type of stuff, to do what I can to preserve the integrity of the system. The fun for me was a novelty, and quickly wore off. But any amount of abuse of the stats system is enough abuse, according to www.bf2rankedservers.com and EA, to have your account wiped. This is not my personal policy, this is THEIR policy.

.:ronin:.|Patton wrote:

I do agree on 1 thing-- If your doing it for a badge, thats pretty gay and i'd feel cheated out if someone got theres on there 1st try, it took me 2 weeks to get it, and i ended up getting it on a 10min round on wake island driving around in DPV's jumping out and knifing people before they knew what hit them, now THAT gave me a rush lol i finished within 15secs of the round.
How is it any different if you're doing it for a badge or not? It's gay if you get a badge from exploiting the system, but it's not gay, not even wrong, if you just get illigitimately obtained stats? If I already have my expert knife badge, and sit there and stat pad an additional 100,000 knife kills, bringing me up from First Sergeant to Colonel, that's not wrong, just because I didn't get a badge out of it? Are you serious?

.:ronin:.|Patton wrote:

If your doing it for fun-- I got no problem with it, my advice tho is make a dummy account and go on, because you dont want a bunch of 10 year old crybabies reporting your good account to bf2rankedservers.com and get it wiped just because you were having fun for a hour or 2.
You have no problem with it, fine. But that is not the point. EA and www.bf2rankedservers.com DOES have a problem with it, and they WILL reset stats because of it. Just because you don't agree with it, just because he "did it for fun", does not mean it is not against the rules, and does NOT mean it doesn't warrant punishment.

You want to have fun playing knife/pistol? Go to an unranked server where it isn't against the rules. Using a dummy account is just as bad as doing it on a main account, as you are supporting and even contributing to people stat padding on ranked servers.
2006-05-02 13:06:40
=NAA=Slyfox
Member
+3|7127
Thank you patton. I'm glad there's someone out there who understands what i'm going after. So I played for 2 hours just using my knife and pistol, had a ton of fun, and because of that I should get reset? I in fact played the other day on my own ranked server with others, and we had an organized knife fight in the streets of Dalian. I ended a 1 hour round with a score of 70. K : D ratio was somewhere along the lines of 1.3 that game. And you think I should get reset for stat padding? Hah.

I'm glad you posted Torin, because it's people like you I was trying to pinpoint out about being ga-ga over the ranking system. Who cares? At the end of the day, me getting a 70 score in one round just knife fighting and you plane whoring for hours on end, does it make a difference? No. Does my 70 points affect your score? Does your plane whoring bother my score? No. So relax, chill out over there, and go get some air with that college degree of yours. Yes, it's fun to see yourself ranked up and with lots of badges, but it's people like yourself who take this to seriously.

So, next time I'm enjoying a fun organized knife or pistol fight in a server, and you join that same server and get votekicked out, well, quit crying and go join one of the other 5,000 servers.

And to back up anything I've said, that round where we had an organized knife fight, an EA admin was actually in there with us, joining along, just making sure we abided by the rules, and he never once had a complaint.

Last edited by =NAA=Slyfox (2006-05-02 13:08:39)

2006-05-02 13:18:58
Torin
Member
+52|7173
Yes, just for that, just for 2 hours of intentionally breaking the ROE, you should be reset. It doesn't matter if you have 2 hours reset or 2000 hours reset, you exploited the system, and you deserve the punishment.

Yes, I'm also glad that people are willing to speak out about how they support stat padding, so the community will know who they are, you and your clan mates, and patton included.

You know, this is a matter of principle here. I am not going ga-ga over the ranking system here. Who cares? EA does, apparently. The issue here is that you exploited the system. You abused the rules. That is what I am against. I am not gun-ho for preserving a perfect integrity of a system I know full well to be tainted. Your stats don't matter to me, hell, my stats barely matter to me. The point is, you broke the rules, simple as that. You deserve the punishment, and so does everyone else who breaks the rules in a similiar fashion. Mind you, I don't care enough about the system to gather evidence and go report you, because I'm not the Holy Savior of the BF2 Ranking System, but I do care enough to state my mind on a matter of principle. It's people like you, applying morals and ideals like that, that ruin so many things in life, not just some game's stat system.

My plane whoring is legitimate, you playing on a pistol/knife only server is not. That's the difference.

Apparently you just don't get it concerning the rules here. This isn't a matter of how it affects me, how it affects patton, how it affects some dude working at EA, this is a plain, black and white matter of breaking the rules. No matter how casual an attitude you have towards them, they are still legitimate. When you installed the game, you agreed to follow them. When you broke them, you deserved to have your stats reset, it's as simple as that. This isn't about having a casual attitude about something that really, in all honesty, doesn't affect anyone, this is a clearcut matter of abuse, no matter how seriously you take the game.

I play this game for fun, I play this game to relieve stress, and I could care less whether you or anyone else has or doesn't have an expert knife badge, but one thing I do believe in, one thing I do believe should be enforced, is the rules. You might not agree, but unfortunately for you, when you installed the game, you agreed to follow them.

And don't try to blur the line between what is legit and wasn't legit, just because an admin was around. Your original description was a clear violation of the ROE. I even admitted that if everyone just wants to have a big knife fight, fine. As soon as there is some form of enforcement of that "rule", that's when it becomes exploitation. When I am prevented from playing on the server, using my M16, following the rules and I get kicked for not letting people exploit the system, anyone involved in kicking me IS exploiting the system and breaking the rules. Sorry you don't agree, but I have the luxury of not needing you to.

Last edited by Torin (2006-05-02 13:19:46)

2006-05-02 13:43:45
viserov
Member
+9|7155|Atlanta
Torin, if you're spending more time worrying about other people's stats in the game, you really need to take a step back and realize it IS just a game. It's hard to fathom, I know.
2006-05-02 13:44:11
=NAA=Slyfox
Member
+3|7127

Torin wrote:

Mind you, I don't care enough about the system to gather evidence and go report you, because I'm not the Holy Savior of the BF2 Ranking System, but I do care enough to state my mind on a matter of principle. It's people like you, applying morals and ideals like that, that ruin so many things in life, not just some game's stat system.
Well, I'm glad you stated your opinion, because without conflicting opinions these forums would be dry. I respect how you feel about "following the rules", and being a server admin myself, I know all about the BF2RS system, ROE, and how all of it works. Mind you, the first time someone comes into a supposed "knife and pistol only" server and gets kicked or banned "by the admin" because they used anything else, then, that my friend, is a violation. But, there are lots of servers still up running the "knife/pistol only" concept because the admins still follow the rules (or from what I've seen) and let people play normally. Simply voting people out of the game was put into place by EA, and if it's such a big deal about vote kicking people out because they don't like what they are doing, then EA will take actions to further enhance the system.

I agree with you on not tolerating people who sit in a corner all day long and get 800+ scores from reviving and killing over and over. I have reported serveral people who have tried this on my server because of that. We do not tolerate stat padding at all. No one on our server has ever recorded high scores. We take a strict policy to keep people out who are there to do nothing but knife in the corner over and over.

"It's people like you, applying morals and ideals like that, that ruin so many things in life"

Hahahaha. I love it. Seriously, thanks for the laugh today. I bet you're probably one of those people who in game see two people trying to knife fight and pull out your m16 and ruin thier fun. I'm sure you're a big hit in game with other players, as well as out and about in the real world.

Last edited by =NAA=Slyfox (2006-05-02 14:06:04)

2006-05-02 13:50:07
Chou
Member
+737|7272
Sorry to break a party but this thread has about the longest posts I have ever seen... no shit
2006-05-02 13:56:55
cheshiremoe
Evil Geniuses for a sparsely populated tomorrow
+50|7190

badhq wrote:

Hi poingt Servers are Allowed EA simply cant BAN anyone cas they changed 16 player map to 64 player MAP as long as they dont put any restrictions on weapons or vhiecles it's all good

Peace Boris
It was hard to pin down what IndianScout was trying to say when everyone was trying to sort out the wording of the ROE, but this is Post #180 on Page 8 of the ROE discussion Here.

IndianScout wrote:

High Point Servers..

definition

64 Player maps setup with 16 players, which limit weapons or vehicles kick people who take flags, for the sole purpose of running points up very high to gain unlocks, badges and rank ..

those are against the ROE

if you run the server normal on a 64 player map with 16 or more players and do not limit class or weapons, then there is no problem..

these are fine..
64 player size maps are ok with a maximum of 16 player and ticket counts of 300 to 330.   Ticket ratio is not the number of tickets but the pre-defined balance of tickets between armies.  On maps where on team starts out with control of all of the capable flags  and no un-capable main base (MEC on karkand or Kubra Dam) a ticket ratio of 100% is 300 to 330 (64 player map) or 100 to 110 x (map size 1, 2 or 3). 

There has been a lot of confusion on these subjects and not everyone has seen the official word witch is hidden deep in a thread.

Most of the "High Points Servers" that you find named as such in the server list are not what ROE was talking about.  From IndianScout's quote you can define Pistol/Knife servers as "High Points Servers" that break the ROE.

Nobody that is against pistol and servers has a problem we just like reporting all the statpadders.  Honestly if your not trying to inflate your score then go play on an unranked server,  if you are then you deserve to be reset.  Just weeding out the lying braggarts.
2006-05-02 14:00:30
=NAA=TheTaxidermist
Member
+6|7215|In a van down by the river
I think Torin's head is so far jammed up his ass, the lump in his throat is his nose.  Nobody in the server had to agree to the terms.  It's not like the server admin was kicking them. 

This is why BF1942 owns BF2 so much.  Nobody cared about stats.  Want to have a knife only server?  Who cares?  Nobody did.  Those were the BEST servers.  I guess maybe EA should reset your stats if you Karkand whore because it's taking advantage of the game mechanics to booster your stats owning n00bs in a tank.
2006-05-02 14:05:01
Torin
Member
+52|7173

=NAA=Slyfox wrote:

I bet you're probably one of those people who in game see two people trying to knife fight and pull out your m16 and ruin thier fun. I'm sure you're a big hit in game with other players, as well as out and about in the real world.
Nah, I have the courtesy to let them finish, then I shoot the winner, assuming he isn't on my team. People do the same for me as well, mainly because I play on a server that is also a community, so we all know each other well. It was jsut the other day that me and some other sniper got into a little pistol duel behind a building near a flag, both used up our clip, he pulled out his knife, so did I, and we went back and forth for 30 seconds with 2 of his team-mates looking on. Since it was their team's flag, he had 2 of his teammates standing around watching by the time I knifed him to death, who immediately dropped me dead the instant the duel was over.

I'm in this game for fun, I'm glad you have fun too, but I won't publically or privately advocate or support exploiting the system, for whatever reason. Like I said, I'm just stating my mind on a matter of principle here.
2006-05-02 14:08:49
Torin
Member
+52|7173

=NAA=TheTaxidermist wrote:

I think Torin's head is so far jammed up his ass, the lump in his throat is his nose.  Nobody in the server had to agree to the terms.  It's not like the server admin was kicking them.
No comment, I don't want to degrade the quality of this conversation with personal insults. I'm sorry you take this situation so personally that you feel the need to insult me, but please try to refrain from it in the future. I'm here to debate a matter of what is principle for me, and if you can't handle that, leave. Don't sit around flaming me because you can't handle the fact that your clan mate could very well have his stats reset.

=NAA=TheTaxidermist wrote:

This is why BF1942 owns BF2 so much.  Nobody cared about stats.  Want to have a knife only server?  Who cares?  Nobody did.  Those were the BEST servers.  I guess maybe EA should reset your stats if you Karkand whore because it's taking advantage of the game mechanics to booster your stats owning n00bs in a tank.
I agree. I loathe the BF2 stats system, but I at least respect it and its rules.

But no, playing on Karkand 24/7 is not against the ROE or any other rules set down by EA, so there is no reason to reset your stats because of it. Stat padding, like your clan mate described, is however against the rules, and can be punished by resetting your stats. Those are the facts, deal with it.
2006-05-02 14:12:54
Torin
Member
+52|7173
-3 karma so far for my posts in this thread. I'm surprised that people both publically and privately support stat padding, and wish to punish those who publically oppose it. Well, as much as you could consider negative karma to be a form of punishment. But, like someone said when they gave me positive karma for this thread, what comes around, goes around.
2006-05-02 14:13:36
=NAA=TheTaxidermist
Member
+6|7215|In a van down by the river

Torin wrote:

No comment, I don't want to degrade the quality of this conversation with personal insults. I'm sorry you take this situation so personally that you feel the need to insult me, but please try to refrain from it in the future. I'm here to debate a matter of what is principle for me, and if you can't handle that, leave. Don't sit around flaming me because you can't handle the fact that your clan mate could very well have his stats reset.
Your mom wears combat boots
2006-05-02 14:17:06
.:ronin:.|Patton
Respekct dad i love u always
+946|7290|Marathon, Florida Keys
Torin i dont support statpadding, i simply DONT GIVE A FUCKING SHIT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.

God damn, most bf2 players spend 1/2 of there time worrying about how other people play.. WHY? ITS NOT YOU! ITS SOMEONE WHO LIVES 1000'S OF MILES AWAY.
https://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/patton1337/stats.jpg
2006-05-02 14:20:33
Torin
Member
+52|7173
That's not the point, hence it being a matter of principle.

I don't care about other people's stats. I do care about the concept of people respecting and abiding by the rules. Yes, these people stat padding, breaking the rules, exploiting the system has ABSOLUTELY no effect on me at all, but it is still breaking the rules, exploiting the system.

Dude, I'm just at work, finishing up a day, waiting on the last 14 updates to be approved on my WSUS server. I'm on here in my down time, trying to have some semblance of an intellectual debate, on an issue that is apparently widely disagreed on. I don't spend all day worrying about some dude in Zimbabwe statpadding for knife kills, I'm just here burning time. Chill.
2006-05-02 15:06:48
killer21
Because f*ck you that's why.
+400|7071|Reisterstown, MD

I'm not sure why people worry about someone elses stats.  If someone wants to pad in a game, who cares?  They obviously lack integrity or else they would not resort to such gameplay.
2006-05-02 15:19:44
137[CSi]
Headshot Specialist
+104|7318|Woodland Hills, Ca

killer21 wrote:

I'm not sure why people worry about someone elses stats.  If someone wants to pad in a game, who cares?  They obviously lack integrity or else they would not resort to such gameplay.
Makes you wonder who the real "BRAGGARTS: are.
2006-05-02 16:51:51
AT3am_Murd0ch
Member
+15|7061
I'm just gonna have to go back to what I said originally:

AT3am_Murd0ch wrote:

I think the point might be this:

-Is a 16 player map a built-in option for the game...... YES.

-Is a knife/pistol only server a built-in option for the game...... NO.

See what I mean?
I think that the people who are taking this game too seriously are those who feel it is necessary to break the rules just to get a specific (virtual) badge, and as far as fun is concerned - host an unranked K/P server! As far as i can tell, most people on these forums own a computer that is more than capable of hosting and playing such a server! If they dont have fun attempting - and often failing - to get awards, then maybe they should play something else.

I dont have the time to play this game as much as most people do - or much as I would like to - but I am still managing to build up the badges and other awards gradually, and without the need for points-specialised combat or the use of K/P servers.

Anyone play football here? A K/P server is the equivalent of saying nobody can use their left leg - and as a result, they all get the 'right leg football specialist badge'...
2006-05-02 16:56:14
smk_valvanite
Member
+12|7157|New Zealand, CHCH
yes admin ranked servers are not allowe knives and pistols only, but if all players on the map agree to knives and pistols, then its fine,


reminds me of a scrim me and the clan had a while back, the other team forefeited, so we went on an empty public server with 16 places and just filled it up, had a great knife fight down by the tv station, we were all medics so the reviving just kept going!

got my ex knife that way
2006-05-02 18:42:26
younggun
Member
+28|7125
If you care that much about your stats and want to cry about them go ahead...

IMHO, They are freakin fun! I don't care if I go 5-50 or if I go 50-5 and get 200+ points. As long as I have fun I'll go back sometime.

I play on them every now and then...
2006-05-02 20:09:19
delta4bravo*nl*
Dutch Delight
+68|7233
you dont need a knife and pistol server to get high points en medals...
just a regular 64 player map with 20 people in it will do... the games last long and you have long time to knife 18 people...
2006-05-02 20:38:16
cheshiremoe
Evil Geniuses for a sparsely populated tomorrow
+50|7190

nodehopper wrote:

I posted on the "High Points Server" issue just a couple weeks ago. If you read through this thread

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=21604

you will find comments on what makes a "High Points Server" legal under the ROE and what would cause it to be against the ROE.
I missed that thread.  thanks.
2006-05-03 03:34:09
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|7162|Disaster Free Zone

Torin wrote:

-3 karma so far for my posts in this thread. I'm surprised that people both publically and privately support stat padding, and wish to punish those who publically oppose it. Well, as much as you could consider negative karma to be a form of punishment. But, like someone said when they gave me positive karma for this thread, what comes around, goes around.
If your going to give torin -1 for speaking the truth you may as well give me some too. Cause not only is he correct in everything he says, anyone who diagrees with him is WRONG!!

+4 or somthing torin
2006-05-03 08:56:07
=NAA=TheTaxidermist
Member
+6|7215|In a van down by the river
Why are knife & pistol servers different from any other server?  They aren't.  On the server I went onto, the server name was Knife and pistol (& etc.).  The admin did not ban or kick for people using weapons other than knife and pistol.  It was just encouraged to use the knife and pistol.  A lot of people did which made for a fun game.  I didn't use this name for the knife pistol server, (I got the expert knife the old fashioned way). 

As regards to running your own private server, you'll get 4 or 5 people on before it starts to lag most people.  That doesn't make for a fun time.  With Knife/Pistol servers, you can get 20+ people in there and have a blast.  And like I said, I have never come across one that is enforced, just recommended.  Nothing wrong with that.

 

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