CammRobb
Banned
+1,510|6388|Carnoustie MASSIF
Q&A: The Digital Economy bill

BBC wrote:

The controversial Digital Economy Bill has been passed into law during the wash-up period, which sees outstanding legislation rushed through before a general election.

The most controversial aspects of the bill - which could see persistent illegal file-sharers disconnected from the web and copyright holders given the power to block access to websites hosting illegal content - survived the process.

What is the Digital Economy Bill?

It is a broad suite of legislation aimed at bringing Britain into the digital age. It follows proposals about digital media set out in the Digital Britain White Paper published by the government in June 2009.

There are various aspects of the bill, which cover everything from local television provision and video game ratings to the powers of regulator Ofcom and how internet domain names are registered in the UK.

It has now been given Royal assent, which means that it is now law. The government says that some measures will be introduced immediately, whilst others will come in over the next two months.

In practice, the next Parliament will be able to study the most contentious aspects of the bill before they are enacted and there will be an extended period of public consultation on many aspects.

What happens now?

The bill will touch on many areas of our digital lives. However, the aspect that has received the most attention is measures designed to curb illegal file-sharing.

This is basically a long set of instructions to Ofcom to draw up guidelines for rights holders and ISPs on how they deal with net piracy.

This will take at least six months, whilst regulator Ofcom consults with interested parties and gets clearance from the EU.

This code of conduct will then be introduced for a year.

Measures could include sending letters to people identified as downloading illegal content and asking them to stop and pointing out legal alternatives.

At the end of the 12 months there will a review. If illegal downloads do not fall (by at least 70%) Ofcom will be asked to consider whether technical measures - which could include limiting the speed or capacity of an individual's service or temporarily suspending their service - are needed.

These would likely be brought in in 2012, if agreed upon. Anyone targeted by the measures would be give the right to appeal, the government says.

What does this mean for me?

In theory, if you do not upload or download copyrighted content, these plans should not affect you. If you do, the government and creative industries hope that these measures will eventually encourage you to use legal services.

Is cutting people off from the net the only controversial aspect of the bill?

No. There are also concerns about how the file-sharing measures could affect public wi-fi services. Specifically, people are concerned that the owner of a connection could be held liable even if they are not personally responsible for downloading pirated material.

So, for instance, if someone used wireless connectivity in a cafe to download free content, the cafe owner would be held responsible. Universities and libraries are also concerned about this aspect.

Opponents are also concerned about laws to force internet service providers to block websites that host copyright free material.

The part of the bill that refers to this, Clause 18, was dropped by the government during the wash-up period. But a new amendment was inserted elsewhere, giving the government similar powers.

Originally the clause was intended to future-proof the legislation against other methods of copyright theft not yet thought about.

While it still allows copyright owners to force service providers to block access to certain sites, the process will now be subject to further debate and would need approval before being implemented.

Why are these measures being brought in?

The government says it wants to protect the UK's creative industries, which it says is under threat from piracy.

It is difficult to measure how much illegal file-sharing is going on. It is reported that more than half of all the traffic on the net in the UK is content being shared illegally but service providers say they cannot measure it exactly.

The creative industries estimate that six million people in the UK regularly file-share copyright content without permission, costing the industries revenue that they cannot recoup.

A recent industry study, by economics firm TERA Consultants, estimated that the UK's creative industries experienced losses of £1.2bn in 2008 due to piracy.

But campaign groups contest these figures and argue that the music industry has been slow to adapt to the internet age. They say that the legislation has been brought into appease big business, whilst penalising individuals.

Why else do people oppose the bill?

MPs from all parties have voiced concern that the laws have not received enough debate and have been rushed through parliament.

Campaigners say that the legislation will not work and will only drive illegal file-sharing underground.

They are also concerned that innocent people could be caught out by the legislation if their net connections are hijacked by pirates.

Companies such as Google have expressed concerns about the plans to block websites, which it says could result in legitimate content also being blocked.

Some ISPs have also long said they do not want to become the internet police, and have also pointed out that they are mere conduits of the traffic on the net.

How will illegal file-sharers be detected?

The responsibility of tracking down pirates will lie with content rights owners, although ISPs will bear some of the costs.

They plan to monitor websites which offer links to copyright content and then obtain the Internet Protocol (IP) address of the online computer being used to share that data.

ISPs tend to own blocks of IP addresses, so it is relatively simple to identify the broadband account holder that is tied to a particular IP address at a particular time.

Will the proposals reduce illegal file-sharing?

The music industry hopes so, but campaigners are sceptical.

The difficulty is that the problem is a moving target. More persistent file-sharers are already beginning to use software which masks their IP address while online, and the files being exchanged are encrypted, so it is harder for ISPs to detect.

However, the music and film industries are more likely attempting to target the "soft, underbelly" of file-sharing: the teenagers who are doing it because they are either apathetic or believe they can get away with it.

They hope that the threat of being watched will be enough to prompt these people to use legitimate services.

But targeting these groups raises another difficult issue in the debate about temporarily suspending the accounts of file-sharers: they may be sharing their internet connection. Teenagers are likely to be using a connection at their parents' homes, and shared housing may see a number of independent users with just one file-sharer in their midst.

How have other countries dealt with the problem?

Countries around the world are grappling with how to control internet piracy.

In the US, student Joel Tenebaum, who has admitted downloading 800 songs, was last year ordered to pay $675,000 (£412,000) to various record labels after being found guilty on 31 charges of sharing music online.

In May 2009, the French parliament passed legislation which would see a new state-agency sending warning letters to file sharers. If they are caught three times, they will be cut off.

There have been protests against similar proposed legislation in Australia and New Zealand.

In response to the French legislation, European politicians ruled that cutting off someone's internet connection could be a breach of their human rights.
What do you think about this? Draconian?

I also feel this way:
Specifically, people are concerned that the owner of a connection could be held liable even if they are not personally responsible for downloading pirated material.
If you're the proprietor of a cafe and someone manages to bypass whatever anti-piracy filters that you have implemented on your network, how can you be held responsible? This problem could see the cost of anti-piracy and 'nanny-networks' come down, I think.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6911
At the end of the 12 months there will a review. If illegal downloads do not fall (by at least 70%)
yeah no
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6997|Toronto | Canada

I guess VPN, seedbox and dedicated server providers will get a lot of new customers.

Also, some British ISPs are fighting this.

http://torrentfreak.com/uk-isps-take-di … rt-100708/
Freezer7Pro
I don't come here a lot anymore.
+1,447|6455|Winland

I think that this, at the most, will make them block The Pirate Bay.
The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6997|Toronto | Canada

Freezer7Pro wrote:

I think that this, at the most, will make them block The Pirate Bay.
Considering not even BREIN has been successful at that, I would doubt it.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6728
people talking about this for ages in UK law before it was passed...

it will be useless. won't stop me downloading in the slightest.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6907

I'm sure I'll be fine with Rapidshare.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6728
you've gotta be some sorta retard to use rapidshare as your means of downloading pirate-content
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6907

I'll bite; why?
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6728
would be much harder to give valid reasons FOR than against that shit, tbh.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6907

I've never had an issue with it. It's fast, has all the content I need and is cheap. What's the problem? Is it just the principle of paying to pirate you don't like?
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6997|Toronto | Canada

Because rapidshare as a free user is just dumb.  Forums are a terrible place to get content.  Paying for it is even worse.  If you're going to pay for content you may as well pay the actual artist, not RS.  There's usually little to no quality control on RS sites as well.

Also, RS itself has sold out completely.
Rapidshare Takes Over Domain Names Of Trademark Abusers
RapidShare Kills Reward Program Over Piracy Concerns <- wtf
Rapidshare Terminates Accounts of Copyright Infringers

Last edited by Winston_Churchill (2010-07-19 11:04:43)

Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6728
erm downloading from one website when there are bills like the digital economy act going around now... ?

how hard do you think it would be for the ISP/police to get a warrant of that? then all of your content is from one site? bye-bye.

also it is shit, the speeds even for premium users are shit - the means of finding content at a decent quality are hopelessly shit.

i see no reason at all to download from websites like RS when you can use private trackers and/or usenet - 'paying for piracy', too.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6907

I see your point about downloading from one source. At the moment however, they're only targeting torrent sites. Perhaps I'll have to change what I do in the future, but it's ok right now. Why are private trackers exempt from that issue though? Size?

Speeds have always been great for me, one of the few websites that gives me my full download speeds. I think I get 3mb/s. Maybe if your internet is much faster than that it can't take advantage of it; I've no idea. I've never gotten particularly great speeds from torrents if anything.

To be honest, the main reason I started using RS was because I can't run torrents from behind our university's firewall. Private trackers wouldn't solve that; I know basically nothing about Usenet so I have no idea whether that would work.

@Winston: I couldn't care less about them taking over websites that are trying to capitalise on their name, nor rewards programs. The cost per month is so insignificant I don't see the need for it. And I don't think anyone uses RS for legitimate purposes so I'm not too worried about them cancelling my account.

Last edited by ghettoperson (2010-07-19 11:17:20)

Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6728
ITT someone doesn't have a clue about private-trackers or usenet and clearly doesn't know the difference between good sauce/bad sauce
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6907

Holy fuck dude, you don't have to be a complete cock all the time. I'm freely admitting I don't know anything about Usenet nor much about private trackers, why don't you chill the fuck out with your constant need to put other people down, for a change and educate me. That's the point of a tech forum, to teach people/learn shit.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6728
not this tech forum.

this thread is 'discuss the ramifications and implications of a new piece of uk piracy legislation', NOT:

'teach ghetto how to get out of age-12 RS rips'

besides you know any detailed discussion or 'how to...' in piracy gets deleted/awm'd on these forums. kinda invalidates your whole post.

Last edited by Uzique (2010-07-19 11:26:09)

libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6907

PM it then.
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6997|Toronto | Canada

ghettoperson wrote:

I see your point about downloading from one source. At the moment however, they're only targeting torrent sites. Perhaps I'll have to change what I do in the future, but it's ok right now. Why are private trackers exempt from that issue though? Size?
Not really, no.  They're targeting everywhere.  RS downloading sites are probably easier to get.  Private trackers aren't getting hit as much because compared to huge sites like TPB and stuff they're insignificant.  Plus its somewhat harder to get into them (though if you're dedicated enough you can get in almost anywhere).

ghettoperson wrote:

Speeds have always been great for me, one of the few websites that gives me my full download speeds. I think I get 3mb/s. Maybe if your internet is much faster than that it can't take advantage of it; I've no idea. I've never gotten particularly great speeds from torrents if anything.
3Mb/s isnt that much, 3MB/s is nice but not amazing.  I've hit ~25MB/s...

ghettoperson wrote:

To be honest, the main reason I started using RS was because I can't run torrents from behind our university's firewall. Private trackers wouldn't solve that; I know basically nothing about Usenet so I have no idea whether that would work.
With encryption?  I've never heard of a university blocking torrent ports outright.  Have you tried multiple ports?  Personally, I download all my content to a server liq, Zimmer and I share and then SFTP (secure download) the files off of it.

ghettoperson wrote:

@Winston: I couldn't care less about them taking over websites that are trying to capitalise on their name, nor rewards programs. The cost per month is so insignificant I don't see the need for it. And I don't think anyone uses RS for legitimate purposes so I'm not too worried about them cancelling my account.
Its just showing how quickly RS is going down the drain.  Already tons of uploaders have moved to other filehosters, especially since RS is planning on putting in filters that scan everything as its uploaded.

Finally, downloading off of places like those are just asking to be caught.  When RS finds you downloaded a file that was copyrighted they could just report your IP to whoever enforces this bill and/or the recording industry and you're got a nice fine on your hands quite quickly.

Last edited by Winston_Churchill (2010-07-19 12:16:31)

ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6907

Winston_Churchill wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

I see your point about downloading from one source. At the moment however, they're only targeting torrent sites. Perhaps I'll have to change what I do in the future, but it's ok right now. Why are private trackers exempt from that issue though? Size?
Not really, no.  They're targeting everywhere.  RS downloading sites are probably easier to get.  Private trackers aren't getting hit as much because compared to huge sites like TPB and stuff they're insignificant.  Plus its somewhat harder to get into them (though if you're dedicated enough you can get in almost anywhere).
Yeah I guess the size is a disadvantage. But even with the smaller sites, if they want to get them they just need a subpeona and they're in, they don't need to sign up.

Winston_Churchill wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

Speeds have always been great for me, one of the few websites that gives me my full download speeds. I think I get 3mb/s. Maybe if your internet is much faster than that it can't take advantage of it; I've no idea. I've never gotten particularly great speeds from torrents if anything.
3Mb/s isnt that much, 3MB/s is nice but not amazing.  I've hit ~25MB/s...
Sorry, I probably should have capitalised that. 3 megabytes per second, for the sake of clarity. That's all my internet will do, I assume it'll go faster if I had a faster connection.

Winston_Churchill wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

To be honest, the main reason I started using RS was because I can't run torrents from behind our university's firewall. Private trackers wouldn't solve that; I know basically nothing about Usenet so I have no idea whether that would work.
With encryption?  I've never heard of a university blocking torrent ports outright.  Have you tried multiple ports?  Personally, I download all my content to a server liq, Zimmer and I share and then SFTP (secure download) the files off of it.
My university is pretty strict with it's internet policies. We also have download limits in halls, so we usually go to the library to download large files, where running torrent programs isn't practical. To be honest, having to download things to a server and then download off that just sounds like too much effort.

Winston_Churchill wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

@Winston: I couldn't care less about them taking over websites that are trying to capitalise on their name, nor rewards programs. The cost per month is so insignificant I don't see the need for it. And I don't think anyone uses RS for legitimate purposes so I'm not too worried about them cancelling my account.
Its just showing how quickly RS is going down the drain.  Already tons of uploaders have moved to other filehosters, especially since RS is planning on putting in filters that scan everything as its uploaded.
Finally, downloading off of places like those are just asking to be caught.  When RS finds you downloaded a file that was copyrighted they could just report your IP to whoever enforces this bill and/or the recording industry and you're got a nice fine on your hands quite quickly.
I'm sure you're right, at least, at some point. I'll probably stop using RS at some point in the future and move on to something else. I just don't see it as quite the utter clusterfuck you and Uzi seem to think it is.

Why wouldn't Usenet get hit like everything else though?
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6728
i wish i had the patience to tell people how to pirate properly circa: 2002.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6997|Toronto | Canada

ghettoperson wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

I see your point about downloading from one source. At the moment however, they're only targeting torrent sites. Perhaps I'll have to change what I do in the future, but it's ok right now. Why are private trackers exempt from that issue though? Size?
Not really, no.  They're targeting everywhere.  RS downloading sites are probably easier to get.  Private trackers aren't getting hit as much because compared to huge sites like TPB and stuff they're insignificant.  Plus its somewhat harder to get into them (though if you're dedicated enough you can get in almost anywhere).
Yeah I guess the size is a disadvantage. But even with the smaller sites, if they want to get them they just need a subpeona and they're in, they don't need to sign up.
Not really, it doesnt quite work that way.  Besides, the content is backed up multiple places so it would be pretty much impossible to hit multiple datacenters in multiple countries at the same time.  The sites tend to be hosted in places that are somewhat lax in their copyright rules.

ghettoperson wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

To be honest, the main reason I started using RS was because I can't run torrents from behind our university's firewall. Private trackers wouldn't solve that; I know basically nothing about Usenet so I have no idea whether that would work.
With encryption?  I've never heard of a university blocking torrent ports outright.  Have you tried multiple ports?  Personally, I download all my content to a server liq, Zimmer and I share and then SFTP (secure download) the files off of it.
My university is pretty strict with it's internet policies. We also have download limits in halls, so we usually go to the library to download large files, where running torrent programs isn't practical. To be honest, having to download things to a server and then download off that just sounds like too much effort.
I had that at school too.  I can also SSH tunnel my utorrent traffic through my server which makes it literally as easy as using utorrent regularly.  Downloading if off the server is no effort at all, downloading the file takes seconds due to its 100/100 connection and then keeping FileZilla open all day really isnt a daunting task.

ghettoperson wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

@Winston: I couldn't care less about them taking over websites that are trying to capitalise on their name, nor rewards programs. The cost per month is so insignificant I don't see the need for it. And I don't think anyone uses RS for legitimate purposes so I'm not too worried about them cancelling my account.
Its just showing how quickly RS is going down the drain.  Already tons of uploaders have moved to other filehosters, especially since RS is planning on putting in filters that scan everything as its uploaded.
Finally, downloading off of places like those are just asking to be caught.  When RS finds you downloaded a file that was copyrighted they could just report your IP to whoever enforces this bill and/or the recording industry and you're got a nice fine on your hands quite quickly.
I'm sure you're right, at least, at some point. I'll probably stop using RS at some point in the future and move on to something else. I just don't see it as quite the utter clusterfuck you and Uzi seem to think it is.

Why wouldn't Usenet get hit like everything else though?
Because its old, outdated, insecure, slow, unreliable, poorly organized, lacking in content, lacking in standards... its just not good.

Usenet did get hit.  The largest site got taken down a couple months ago yet another group got it back up and running within days.
FFLink
There is.
+1,380|6949|Devon, England
Ghetto, RS is brilliant for what it offers.

Uzique doesn't use it, though, so you have to understand that because of this, it's slow, poorly populated without the right files, will decrease your IQ and give you AIDS.

You should know by now that that's how this stuff goes.

These things are just put in place to scare, as it said, more than do any good. I bet none of us here see any effects from this.

Also, it doesn't log IPs

Last edited by FFLink (2010-07-19 17:48:05)

Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6997|Toronto | Canada

FFLink wrote:

Ghetto, RS is brilliant.

Uzique doesn't use it, though, so you have to understand that because of this, it's slow, poorly populated without the right files, will decrease your IQ and give you AIDS.

You should know by now that that's how this stuff goes.

These things are just put in place to scare, as it said, more than do any good. I bet none of us here see any effects from this.
RS is poor... most of the content is scene content, which is inherently inferior to internal p2p content.  Plus the time it takes to get there is usually quite awful as well.  I can be watching most shows on my laptop within 10-15 minutes of airing.  I've never seen one even make it to an RS site within an hour or two

btw would one of you lazy mods fix the title

Last edited by Winston_Churchill (2010-07-19 17:46:57)

ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6907

Actually Top Gear the other day was up within half an hour or so. Which is about 8 times the speed it takes the BBC to stick it on iPlayer.

EDIT: And the RS debate has been taken to PM's. It was unlikely to go anywhere productive/get closed in this thread.

Last edited by ghettoperson (2010-07-19 17:49:18)

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