BF2S Forums France to dismante illegal Roma camps

JohnG@lt wrote:

Yes, indeed I do benefit from the GI Bill. It was built into my contract when I signed up and is really nothing more than deferred salary. Do you feel that people shouldn't be compensated for work they do? Good luck finding people to defend your home if you're not willing to pay them.

And some would say that working in this society and paying income tax should be connected to a social safety net if things go wrong.  It's the same logic, but it just manifests in different ways.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Public school until high school, private school for high school. Irrelevant since my parents funded the school district via property taxes. Even if there hadn't been a public school they would've paid for me to attend whatever was available. Education is important.

Then perhaps you now understand a little better why some of us would prefer that the government gets involved in a few basic things like education.

JohnG@lt wrote:

This is quite possibly the dumbest argument anyone has ever made on this forum. I don't care if people want to walk from Chile, Canada or walk from South Africa up through Asia, catch a boat at the Bering Sea and then walk down from Alaska. If people want something that bad why should we deny them? There's a vast gulf between actively aiding them by putting them on a military transport plane and simply leaving the borders open.

Then your original implications are invalid.  You aren't trying to free people from the burdens associated from where they were born anymore than I am.  I prefer certain restrictions in place through law, you're fine with the restrictions in place that exist with geography and expense.  That's all this really comes down to.

JohnG@lt wrote:

If everyone took as much as they could and gave as little as they could in return the entire system would've collapsed a long time ago. The entire concept of free markets is built on symbiotic relationships that people form in their daily lives. The guy that owns the local deli requires my business so he can pay his rent, clear his inventory and make a profit. He can charge whatever he wants for his goods up to a certain point but past that point and he loses business. It's in his own best interests to keep his prices reasonable so he can maintain a steady income.

What you describe is simple cannibalism. Cannibalism is in no ones best interest because eventually you run out of people to eat, then you starve.

And yet capital accumulation is basically cannibalism on a globally capitalist scale.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

And yet capital accumulation is basically cannibalism on a globally capitalist scale.

Yes, allowing people to keep what they earn is dreadful. Arbitrary caps on wealth are so much fairer and so invigorating for the work force. Such a heavy burden lifted.

What one truly earns is defined differently between us.  You believe the market determines this alone.  I believe society overall determines what you should keep.

JohnG@lt wrote:

And you've proven nothing except that you're a grasping, fearful, twirp who is covetous of what other people earn but isn't willing to put in the work to receive it. The gulf between where I stand and you stand is so vast that we'll never see eye to eye. You want government to control everything because you're lazy and think it will make your life easier while maintaining your standard of living. I, on the other hand, know the truth.

And you've proven nothing other than the fact that you're an ideologue of the libertarian capitalist persuasion.  We most certainly will not see eye to eye because you're an idealist, and I'm a pragmatist.

So what happens if you and your ilk actually manage to level out wages across the board? Surely you'll need price controls put into place to keep prices from rising to meet the bottom like they normally do. Otherwise we'll all just end up equally poor. Can't have that, that would defeat the entire purpose. How much is a carton of eggs going to cost in your system? Have you worked that out yet? Oh right, details will work themselves out later.

“The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design." -FA Hayek

Words to live by. I think I've discovered why they say conservatives are happier than liberals. We aren't continually frustrated by a desire to arrange, list and control things. Free will's a bitch.

I find it to be an absolutely astounding paradox that supposedly freedom loving, war hating, people would get so completely suckered in by a philosophy designed and built for the Prussian military state; one of the most tightly controlled and disciplined armies ever to have existed on this planet. They'll spit on soldiers and boast about how they could never serve because they don't like taking orders and in the same conversation quote Marx or Kant without irony. It is so laughable that it brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-07-30 15:25:56)

JohnG@lt wrote:

Penning people in behind arbitrary borders and having their life defined by something they had no control over (where they were born) is completely asinine. I only get one life and if I can make a better life for myself in China or Brazil or Germany what right do you have to stop me? Such a retardedly backwards concept.

The Chinese, Brazilians and Germans have a right to stop you.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Penning people in behind arbitrary borders and having their life defined by something they had no control over (where they were born) is completely asinine. I only get one life and if I can make a better life for myself in China or Brazil or Germany what right do you have to stop me? Such a retardedly backwards concept.

The Chinese, Brazilians and Germans have a right to stop you.

Why? As long as I'm not stealing their land but purchasing it in a normal fashion, obeying all the laws etc. What right do they really have to stop me from trying to better myself? To protect their own jobs that I might be more qualified for? Makes sense

What right do you have to control the border with Mexico?

Pretty sure China and Germany have well qualified engineers who are cheaper than you, Brazil doesn't have electricity - good luck.

Because economic planning, industrial planning, infrastructure planning and so on lag the free market.
Also countries tend to prefer their citizens have jobs and a reasonable standard of living.

All countries have some form of economic plan. City planners have plans, they don't just wait for for people to roll in and live in cardboard before they start planning (except California).
Being a citizen of a country affords people rights and benefits they don't necessarily want diluted. Thats my right and I'll vote for the govt which supports that.

Or you can live in Somalia, no-one going through the 'folly' of planning anything there.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-07-31 22:16:54)

Very few people in this discussion have a fucking clue about what they are talking about besides Shahter.

I live in Romania and I can assure you that roma are sub-humans. They are parasites. They don't contribute anything, they just occupy space with their shanty towns. They commit most of the crimes, they fuck up the infrastructure, they fuck up the economy too.

It's an example of tolerance gone too far.

Cybargs wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

I live in Romania and I can assure you that roma are sub-humans. They are parasites. They don't contribute anything, they just occupy space with their shanty towns. They commit most of the crimes, they fuck up the infrastructure, they fuck up the economy too.

Yeah they should all be locked up and sent to camps to learn the values of hard work

http://www.worldinterestingfacts.com/wp … Poland.jpg

don't go crazy.  those cockroaches just need a little machete attention.

Ioan92 wrote:

I'm serious.

Yeah that's why your views are so warped and fucked. I lived amongst the aborigines in Taiwan when I was younger. Sure some of them were fucked up (some of my friends are now either in gangs or dropped out of school), but I don't generalize all of them as "sub-human" as you would put it.

Ioan92 wrote:

Very few people in this discussion have a fucking clue about what they are talking about besides Shahter.

I live in Romania and I can assure you that roma are sub-humans. They are parasites. They don't contribute anything, they just occupy space with their shanty towns. They commit most of the crimes, they fuck up the infrastructure, they fuck up the economy too.

It's an example of tolerance gone too far.

Sounds like pikeys in the UK.

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

And yet capital accumulation is basically cannibalism on a globally capitalist scale.

Yes, allowing people to keep what they earn is dreadful. Arbitrary caps on wealth are so much fairer and so invigorating for the work force. Such a heavy burden lifted.

What one truly earns is defined differently between us.  You believe the market determines this alone.  I believe society overall determines what you should keep.

JohnG@lt wrote:

And you've proven nothing except that you're a grasping, fearful, twirp who is covetous of what other people earn but isn't willing to put in the work to receive it. The gulf between where I stand and you stand is so vast that we'll never see eye to eye. You want government to control everything because you're lazy and think it will make your life easier while maintaining your standard of living. I, on the other hand, know the truth.

And you've proven nothing other than the fact that you're an ideologue of the libertarian capitalist persuasion.  We most certainly will not see eye to eye because you're an idealist, and I'm a pragmatist.

I think this probably the most disturbing opinion I have ever read from you Turquoise.

Actually saying keeping what you have EARNED is idealist and wealth redistribution is pragmatic.

Excuse me while I go throw up now.

Last edited by lowing (2010-08-05 02:24:06)