BF2S Forums What's your Manifesto for Saving America?

JohnG@lt wrote:

Really? Because Germany has lost much of its manufacturing to the Czech Republic over the past decade. Pesky union labor.

They still have a colossal trade surplus, funny that.

Anyway, like most blowhards you haven't come up with any solutions, just criticised everyone elses.
Are you sure you're not a liberal?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-09-22 21:33:46)

So? Lets hear your solutions.

JohnMcC@in wrote:

I think the fundamentals of the economy are sound and we'll be back to normal within a year or so.

That kind of instigation mek only spurs a 5 page flame fest. Enjoy.

I forgot that D&ST gives me a case of serious verbal diarrhea. I apologise for this and know that this tirade is more for my benefit than anyone elses. Everything writen is only poorly thought out opinion with no research behind it at all so if you do chose to read it I suggest you take it with a grain of salt.

It's also full of grammar and spelling errors as well as typoes.

How many people have to give their posts a disclaimer eh?

I'm more a devil's advocate than somone who actually offers anything constructive so here are my thoughts on Savage's thoughts:

Point #1: Close the borders? Fortress America. Look I know you guys have a problem with immigration but you guys, like any nation, rely on immigrants as an integral part of your economy. While problems may remain there is no quick-fix solution and if there was, closing off borders is not a good one. Only one country in the world clsess of it's borders: North Korea. Michael Savage is following a leading fucking example if he thinks that North Korea is something to aspire to.

Point #2: To be honest I don't know enough about 'ObamaCare'. However I come from one of the countries that aren't America where aspects of the heath system are public. It works damn well here. Of course the argument is thaat while it works elsewhere it won't work in America and to be honest my reaction to this is "suit yourself".

Point #3: Flat taxes... Well it depends on which side you bat for on whether this is a good idea. Either way it doesn't result in much tax revenue for the goverment - which again kind of depends which side you bat for. Savage is probably somthing of a libertarian where he expects corporation to fairly run those things that the government wouldn't have to any more. Libertarianism always seems stupid and naive to me so I'll jsut leave it at that.

Point #4: I don't fucking trust Wall Street. To be honest getting people who'se financial interests depend on the success of Wall Street to regulate it seems like an awful idea. It's like calling a horse race for a group of blind people. If you've got your money on one horse you can say whatever the fuck you want to ensure that you walk away with the money.

That was kind of an odd metaphore, I apologise for that.

Point #5: Hmm... This one I'm torn on. Becuase I fully realise that there are issues of race and culture that mean people are not equal where affirmative action policies work to correct but on an induvidual level they can be incredibly annoying and are very open to exploitation. This last point being the case though I suggest an alternative: everyone just fucking lies about their ethnicities. I have a friend in the States who wanted to get into a scholorship that was reserved for native Americans. What did she do? She just fucking lied. Worked like a charm. Ethnicity can be a pretty loose concept when you think about it.

Point #6: I don't know enough about this to accurately comment on it. My gut feeling is to agree with Savage on this one.

Point #7: This is naive. I doubt Savage has any idea about how much money the US owes China or how much of the US China owns. In a perfect world I would agree with him on this but we do not live in a perfect world.

Point #8: This one makes me laugh. It's a loophole rather than a law and it has a purpose that I doubt Savage gives much thought to. To properly fix it would take time and resources. I think this point just proves Savage to be a quick-fix kind of guy who is unliely to consider the wider implications of certain actions.

Point #9: Obviously Savage believes in this because it wouldn't adversely effect him. He doesn't seem to care that over 6 billion people in the world aren't him. Think though; don't you get pissed of when you have to wade through DRM and download programs and sign up to accounts and jump trough hoops to play a game you bought? It pisses you off right because you're being treated like a criminal when you're nothing of the sort. Imagine that being your life.
Look Savage may be scared of the big wide world aroun him but I hope he has a comforting thought every now and then - most of the world is NOT trying to kill him. He's more likely to die while crossing the street or while driving his car or in a hilariously tragic Darwin Awards like accident than be a victim of a terror attack. Don't force a good sized chunk of the world's population topander to your pathetic fears and insecurities.

Point #10: Agree on a country not being run by an empire. America, (or any other country for that matter,) thinking it can re-create the world in its own image leads only to problems - and this coming from a commonwealth countryman who still calls Queen Lizzy their head of state. I'm not sure exactly what Savage means when he says "like a business" so I can't accurately comment. However given the United States' emphasis on the importance of liberty and induviduality "running like a business' is probably not the best option. Look: China is run like a business. Who the fuck would rather live in China than the United States?

Now because I feel like I should contribute some of my own ideas.

- Get the fuck rid of the two party system. As everyone in America surely realises by now, Republicans suck. Democrats suck. They're all so lodged up their own arses they don't even know what their own values are, let alone the values of their constituants. The vote for things they oppose and they actively work to sabotage their own policies. I imagine it would be very frustrating for most people. Look at the move to repeal the Don't Ask Don't Tel police - Republicans were for it, Democrats were for it, the President was for it, the armed forces were for it - AND THE SENATE STILL VOTED IT DOWN. I doubt they even know why.

So yeah. Time and time again I see proof that the two party system is broken. I'd suggest a system multiple party system that allows parties to have an equal footing in elections. Two parties will most likely still dominate but majority governments will be rarer meaning smaller parties have influence and are not driven into irrelevence.It will make things more complicated, (and presidential elections will probably have to be completely reqorked,) and to be honest I'm not even sure it would work in America - but at least it would mean a smaller likelyhood of collective brainfarts that seem way too common currently.

- Require an intelligence test to vote. Yeah, taking away peoples right to vote, the ultimate enemy of democracy - but America already does take away people's rights to vote. I'd suggest setting the standard low of course so the vast majority of people can vote - and I mean all people, if a 12 year old is politically aware enough to cast a vote and wants to then more power to them. Better than Mr. Completely-fucking-ignorant basing his vote on the voices in his head playing a role in who gets to run the country. This is more personal opinion than something that will actually improve anything.

- Probably most important. Fix the media. I'm not honestly sure how this can be done, especially given free spech and censorship laws and a general squeemishness when it comes to regulating media coverage - which is fair enough. But American media has turned into a joke. It's not performing it's crucial role. Informing the people. Acting as a check and balance on the executive and legislative branches of government. This is its role. Not to confirm people's mistaken beliefs but to correct them. Not to manipulate government but to make sure it's doing its job. Not to spin and distort facts to appeal to certain markets thus robbing them of the ability to rationally and informedly draw conclusions of the state of affairs but to accurately report on fact. So many people it seems are getting their facts from advice columnists, from sources no more reliable than ME. Now there's a terrifying thought.

This may be melodramatic but I believe Rupert Murdoch to be one of the worst people on the planet.

Anyway I'll stop now.

Intelligence doesn't mean someone is going to vote for the right reasons or someone is an intellectually well round person capable of logic and employing reason. You can have an IQ of 150 and still have a closed mind, or vote for whatever party your parents vote for, or be as stubborn as a mule and out of touch with reality nor formatting your own posts somewhat coherantly and normally.

Crack down on big corn.

I'd like to thank specialist2324 for pointing out the flaws in cutting foreign aid in hard economic times via a karma message. My logic has been usurped by a seemingly anonymous karma insult. Thanks for the lesson, specialist.

Pug wrote:

Since when does America need to be "saved"?

Come to think of it, I had to drive ten miles to wait in a really long bread line, and dodge bums from the large number of unemployed clogging the streets.  I barely had time to to write this post.

Clearly America is collapsing under the weight of its lack of expensive socialist programs

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-09-23 07:19:46)

Just a side question here, is the huge debt % of the EU countries still a leftover from post WW2 rebuilding?

I realize that the social programs are extremely expensive but to my understanding most countries can pay for it without having to borrow additional funds annually, where do those 200-500% figures come from?

ah yeah I was thinking about another chart, anyhow that makes sense. Yet at the same time you'd think that there should be countries who have a surplus to provide the loans of those in debt. Yet going by this map;



Where does it all come from? With pretty much all of the western world being in debt isn't this a problem of some sort. I highly doubt that russia, china and australia could provide for everyone.

IMHO the problem with the socialist programs isn't the concept of it but it being mismanaged. Granted I'd say that "nearly free healthcare" (probably the most expensive of all) and such require a somewhat over-controlling system to work. I set foot in hospitals a couple times and watched quite a few operations. What you notice is that 95% of the people on the operation table are firstly obese and overweight, secondly massive smokers and/or heavy drinkers.

And they mostly seem to be inbetween the age of 45 and 70, I guess that's the time when living an unhealthy life really starts to show results.

If you'd force people to jog and work out, even eat healthy regularily you'd drop healthcare costs by atleast 50-60%. You'd almost say it's arrogance to consider healthcare a common good if more than 3/4th of the people using/abusing that system aren't doing anything to improve their own health to begin with. Causing research in the field and the quality of work to decrease and stall because the cost of keeping these people alive is just so damn huge.

And yeah, elder care is the other HUGE tax-eating machine. I don't really know what sort of opinion I should have on it though.

Last edited by dayarath (2010-09-23 10:13:58)

Wow... Sweden seems to be in good shape when it comes to debt.