BF2S Forums North Korea shells disputed South Korean island

Uzique wrote:

what exactly do you mean by china and their government "being the same"? being the same as what? when? 1994 when you were born? still a maoist and ruthless communist regime with progressive socialist tendencies? or still a blossoming state capitalist power that is rapidly industrialising and developing? or perhaps still just a bunch of slit-eyed yellow-bellies that can't be trusted? or perhaps still a bunch of dynastic paddy-farmers with a penchant for opium?

you don't know what you're talking about. your view of china seems to be taken from a mccarthy pamphlet. it's sad.

Are you seriously holding China up as a positive example? I don't view them as my nations enemy but they're right up there with Somalia as far as quality governments go.

War Man wrote:

Do not be a blasted fool to think China is a friend, in the present. The government is still the same.

Last edited by Spark (2010-11-27 17:15:45)

YTN TV: Any remaining civilians on Yeonpyeong island ordered to take shelter in bunkers immediately

Spark wrote:

In terms of human rights, yeah. You can't doubt their ability to get things done, though.

Macbeth wrote:

The pyramids weren't built by slavery though \o/

troll, gtfo

Spark wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Spark wrote:

wat

'They get things done' has been the excuse rendered for admiring every autocratic dictatorship since the founding of democratic republics. People used to use those words when describing why they though Hitler and Stalin were swell guys. China is a blight upon the history of modern civilization. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, commendable about that government.

Well then find a better comparison than Somalia.

I did. I offered up Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. Also the Khmer Rouge.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Spark wrote:

wat

'They get things done' has been the excuse rendered for admiring every autocratic dictatorship since the founding of democratic republics. People used to use those words when describing why they though Hitler and Stalin were swell guys. China is a blight upon the history of modern civilization. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, commendable about that government.

I'm pretty sure that Spark was making an observation, not an endorsement.

Authoritarianism does get shit done.  Every society has a certain level of authoritarianism to it, but what level is acceptable is dependent on the culture -- just like with socialism.

China is typical of a lot of Eastern cultures in that conformity and, by extension, authoritarianism is more acceptable than it would be here.  Granted, that is changing as China rises in standard of living.  Currently, Hong Kong is a good example of where the government has allowed some of their people to have more freedoms than the rest of China.  This is largely due to how their standard of living is higher than the rest of the country as well.

So, as the average Chinese citizen outside of Hong Kong begins to take more notice of Hong Kong's freedoms and rises in standard of living, the Chinese government will gradually feel more pressure to give most of their citizens more freedom.  It's a natural progression towards individualism and liberty.

In the meantime, however, their government is able to ram through reforms with or without the support of the public.  There is something to envy about that, since it is much harder to reform a system like our own.

Granted, the negative side of this disconnect from the public is obvious as well.

Kmar wrote:

A very slow progression Turq.. Ramming things through is not necessarily a good thing. China has plenty of problems that it generally doesn't have to answer for.

Well, I'm not saying I prefer the Chinese government either.  Again, it's just a matter of observations.

Ideally, society should have a representative government while also having a populace capable of agreeing to certain reforms over time.  I would argue America has the opposite problems from China in that we seem unable to agree to much of anything.

Still, I'm not suggesting that I would prefer to live in China.

Kmar wrote:

Well I sure can't argue against the divide in American politics. We take sides as if we are picking our favorite sports teams. Our ego's prevent us from even considering other positions.

Yeah.  I mean, when looking at some of the responses in my "leader blaming" thread, it seems as if there is a certain amount of this in every prosperous country, but I also hear that there is more common ground between the left and right in most other countries.

Canadian politics, for example, seem to be less divisive.  A lot of people that run under the Conservative party there could run as Democrats here.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Well I sure can't argue against the divide in American politics. We take sides as if we are picking our favorite sports teams. Our ego's prevent us from even considering other positions.

Yeah.  I mean, when looking at some of the responses in my "leader blaming" thread, it seems as if there is a certain amount of this in every prosperous country, but I also hear that there is more common ground between the left and right in most other countries.

Canadian politics, for example, seem to be less divisive.  A lot of people that run under the Conservative party there could run as Democrats here.

Most of that is theatrics designed to paint candidates and parties as being further apart than they really are. It's by design. When the candidates are close on issues, turnout is smaller.

Well, we'll probably agree that both parties support large government, but when you look at social issues, for example, there are some huge differences between the parties.

You don't usually see as much of a social divide in other First World countries.

I don't know anything about construction. I just thought I should post this and see what you folks could discuss about it. Imagine how fast cities could grow with this type of rapid construction.

Turquoise wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

The pyramids weren't built by slavery though \o/

This is true...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_p … techniques

but who did the shit that supported the people who built the pyramids?

slaves, ofc

so without the slaves, no pyramids.

Trotskygrad wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

The pyramids weren't built by slavery though \o/

This is true...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_p … techniques

but who did the shit that supported the people who built the pyramids?

slaves, ofc

so without the slaves, no pyramids.

Indirectly, yes.  We were talking about the construction itself though.