so 100 students per uni is a reasonable scholarship fund... and the rest just have to put up with the bum deal on high fees? right
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Yep, it's completely irrational to use scholarships as a valid argument. They are the cherry on top for the overly exceptional.
Also I think you misunderstood my numbers. You have to be in the top 100 students in the country to qualify, but assuming the other top unis have similar requirements, any one uni wouldn't take more then about 10 students.Ilocano wrote:
If I had a scholarship foundation, I wouldn't give one to a 95% percentile either. 100 students per Uni seems reasonable.
Last edited by DrunkFace (2010-12-09 17:16:27)
Fuck it, i'm off to do a foundation degree at truro college in dance. 60 UCAS pts.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
scholarships are just a superficial academic pretension to hide the fact that universities/colleges thesedays are businesses and money-making entities before educational/humanist institutions. scholarships and bursary funds are just an archaic hangover from a time when real academic progress was a muchly valued thing in society. nowadays they're just socio-political tools to throw a novelty bone to the complaining working-classes or underprivileged. "cherry on top" is a good phrase, i suppose...
Last edited by Uzique (2010-12-09 17:12:23)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
100 Uni sourced scholarships? Yes. The rest, private scholarships. Aussie private sector not as generous as the US, well, do something about it. When you are successful and all, form your own foundations to help new Uni students. Can't afford it otherwise, lower your aspirations or sacrifice for the next generation. That's how it is here and most of Asia (Anglo zones excluded).Uzique wrote:
so 100 students per uni is a reasonable scholarship fund... and the rest just have to put up with the bum deal on high fees? right
Sorry, but engineering and medical academic progress are still very much valued. Proof is in the pay.Uzique wrote:
scholarships are just a superficial academic pretension to hide the fact that universities/colleges thesedays are businesses and money-making entities before educational/humanist institutions. scholarships and bursary funds are just an archaic hangover from a time when real academic progress was a muchly valued thing in society. nowadays they're just socio-political tools to throw a novelty bone to the complaining working-classes or underprivileged. "cherry on top" is a good phrase, i suppose...
I don't really understand the argument in the first place. People seem to be trying to skip through social classes in a single generation. Of course I'm going to be called elitist for saying so, but if you don't come from money, don't get a degree designed for the 'leisure class'. If you're actually studying something that leads to a better life for you and your family, 15k should be chump change, especially since it's spread out over ten years. 1.5k a year? I spend more than that on cigarettes. I just can't comprehend the whining.
Why are you all in college if it doesn't lead to a bigger paycheck at the end? A guy like uzique who claims to come from money can study whatever the fuck he wants, his dad is footing the bill. To those of you in a situation where you have to take out loans, your college education is an investment in your future earning potential and should be treated as such. People need to be more realistic about where they actually are in the world.
TLDR: If you're poor, pick a degree that actually leads to higher money. The fluff degrees are for those that don't give a shit about making a penny after university. That's not a class warfare comment either, that's fucking reality.
Why are you all in college if it doesn't lead to a bigger paycheck at the end? A guy like uzique who claims to come from money can study whatever the fuck he wants, his dad is footing the bill. To those of you in a situation where you have to take out loans, your college education is an investment in your future earning potential and should be treated as such. People need to be more realistic about where they actually are in the world.
TLDR: If you're poor, pick a degree that actually leads to higher money. The fluff degrees are for those that don't give a shit about making a penny after university. That's not a class warfare comment either, that's fucking reality.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-12-09 17:18:26)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
the fuck does working-pay have to do with academic progress? i'm talking about university scholarships, not private-sector paychequesIlocano wrote:
Sorry, but engineering and medical academic progress are still very much valued. Proof is in the pay.Uzique wrote:
scholarships are just a superficial academic pretension to hide the fact that universities/colleges thesedays are businesses and money-making entities before educational/humanist institutions. scholarships and bursary funds are just an archaic hangover from a time when real academic progress was a muchly valued thing in society. nowadays they're just socio-political tools to throw a novelty bone to the complaining working-classes or underprivileged. "cherry on top" is a good phrase, i suppose...
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Who gives a shit about 'academic progress'?
Very little of social value has come out of university departments overall, even less out of arts and humanities depts.
Very little of social value has come out of university departments overall, even less out of arts and humanities depts.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-12-09 17:20:14)
Fuck Israel
evidently nobody. i'm just saying that scholarships and bursaries are an institutional archaism from earlier enlightenment/humanist times. times when university educations were a socially-elite thing, a 'quest for human knowledge' and 'progression', as opposed to career-facilitators.
nice of you to call the 'no benefit from humanities/arts dept' thing, dilbert. glad an expert weighs in with his educated opinion! if you have no value for culture and intellectual advancement, that's fine, but don't act as if you're qualified on what's 'worthy' and what's not. pure arrogance.
nice of you to call the 'no benefit from humanities/arts dept' thing, dilbert. glad an expert weighs in with his educated opinion! if you have no value for culture and intellectual advancement, that's fine, but don't act as if you're qualified on what's 'worthy' and what's not. pure arrogance.
Last edited by Uzique (2010-12-09 17:21:30)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Kent State - Target Practice?Dilbert_X wrote:
Who gives a shit about 'academic progress'?
Very little of social value has come out of university departments overall, even less out of arts and humanities depts.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
I thought back in Faust times, it was a means to get girls naked.Uzique wrote:
evidently nobody. i'm just saying that scholarships and bursaries are an institutional archaism from earlier enlightenment/humanist times. times when university educations were a socially-elite thing, a 'quest for human knowledge' and 'progression', as opposed to career-facilitators.
nice of you to call the 'no benefit from humanities/arts dept' thing, dilbert. glad an expert weighs in with his educated opinion! if you have no value for culture and intellectual advancement, that's fine, but don't act as if you're qualified on what's 'worthy' and what's not. pure arrogance.
As it is now.
Edit: by the way, I value arts and the humanties. I'm that engineer who could spend the whole day at the Getty Center. But here's the clincher, most of the sponsors are from Dr. and Mrs. Foundations.
isn't everything a means to get girls naked, at some level. mmmf.
db, are we really going to do this thing again where we justify cutting educational funding / increasing costs for EVERYBODY, regardless of subject, by throwing out the extreme whack-job course examples? didn't we just do this like 5 pages ago? yes, some shit institutions offer pointless degrees. what does that have to do with 99.99% of the other ambitious, hard-working student population? criticize the university, discredit the particular department... increase costs for the entire generation? eeeeeeeeeerm.
db, are we really going to do this thing again where we justify cutting educational funding / increasing costs for EVERYBODY, regardless of subject, by throwing out the extreme whack-job course examples? didn't we just do this like 5 pages ago? yes, some shit institutions offer pointless degrees. what does that have to do with 99.99% of the other ambitious, hard-working student population? criticize the university, discredit the particular department... increase costs for the entire generation? eeeeeeeeeerm.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Why do we need them?Ilocano wrote:
100 Uni sourced scholarships? Yes. The rest, private scholarships. Aussie private sector not as generous as the US, well, do something about it. When you are successful and all, form your own foundations to help new Uni students. Can't afford it otherwise, lower your aspirations or sacrifice for the next generation. That's how it is here and most of Asia (Anglo zones excluded).Uzique wrote:
so 100 students per uni is a reasonable scholarship fund... and the rest just have to put up with the bum deal on high fees? right
Anyone in the top 40% of year 12 graduates will be eligible to get government subsided tuition and an interest free (CPI adjusted) loan with no term limit to repay in order to attend a university. Maybe not to the university or course you want, but the better you do the better chance you have of getting what you want.
Even people who get scholarships don't use them for tuition, it's goes on accommodation, transport, food, and textbooks... or booze. Corporate scholarships usually include a guaranteed job at the end depending on grades.
Sorry, I do value it but very little of value in culture and intellectual advancement has come out of universities - mostly its come from outside universities.Uzique wrote:
nice of you to call the 'no benefit from humanities/arts dept' thing, dilbert. glad an expert weighs in with his educated opinion! if you have no value for culture and intellectual advancement, that's fine, but don't act as if you're qualified on what's 'worthy' and what's not. pure arrogance.
Unless people writing essays and referencing each other is somehow of value outside a university, I don't see how it is.
Fuck Israel
No argument from me. But apparently a small, but violent minority is ignoring that portion of aid.DrunkFace wrote:
Why do we need them?Ilocano wrote:
100 Uni sourced scholarships? Yes. The rest, private scholarships. Aussie private sector not as generous as the US, well, do something about it. When you are successful and all, form your own foundations to help new Uni students. Can't afford it otherwise, lower your aspirations or sacrifice for the next generation. That's how it is here and most of Asia (Anglo zones excluded).Uzique wrote:
so 100 students per uni is a reasonable scholarship fund... and the rest just have to put up with the bum deal on high fees? right
Anyone in the top 40% of year 12 graduates will be eligible to get government subsided tuition and an interest free (CPI adjusted) loan with no term limit to repay in order to attend a university. Maybe not to the university or course you want, but the better you do the better chance you have of getting what you want.
Even people who get scholarships don't use them for tuition, it's goes on accommodation, transport, food, and textbooks... or booze. Corporate scholarships usually include a guaranteed job at the end depending on grades.
They all wanna be Anarchists in the UKIlocano wrote:
No argument from me. But apparently a small, but violent minority is ignoring that portion of aid.DrunkFace wrote:
Why do we need them?Ilocano wrote:
100 Uni sourced scholarships? Yes. The rest, private scholarships. Aussie private sector not as generous as the US, well, do something about it. When you are successful and all, form your own foundations to help new Uni students. Can't afford it otherwise, lower your aspirations or sacrifice for the next generation. That's how it is here and most of Asia (Anglo zones excluded).
Anyone in the top 40% of year 12 graduates will be eligible to get government subsided tuition and an interest free (CPI adjusted) loan with no term limit to repay in order to attend a university. Maybe not to the university or course you want, but the better you do the better chance you have of getting what you want.
Even people who get scholarships don't use them for tuition, it's goes on accommodation, transport, food, and textbooks... or booze. Corporate scholarships usually include a guaranteed job at the end depending on grades.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
i honestly cannot be bothered to point out the obvious flaws in your argument. nobody is claiming that ivory towers, self-referential essayism and self-congratulation is doing anything. people equipped with that academic discipline though and people with that intellectual qualification are doing things. prohibiting any of these potential 'intellectuals' from earning such an education/discipline because of money is asinine wankery. im not claiming anywhere that academia in the strict-career sense of the word is catapulting society into a new cultural zeitgeist. what i am saying is that the people who do perform such things are often part-time academics, or clearly have an academic background and 'training'. nobody is inventing any new philosophies without having read the classics at university first. that's all i'm saying.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
"they all", huh? thanks for speaking for me and my friends that have all protested over this. thanks for speaking for the thousands of others. your tabloid-press and sensationalized media coverage sure is a definitive guide to the way things are working out here, on the ground. thanks for telling me what attitudes we possess from your armchair surveying.JohnG@lt wrote:
They all wanna be Anarchists in the UKIlocano wrote:
No argument from me. But apparently a small, but violent minority is ignoring that portion of aid.DrunkFace wrote:
Why do we need them?
Anyone in the top 40% of year 12 graduates will be eligible to get government subsided tuition and an interest free (CPI adjusted) loan with no term limit to repay in order to attend a university. Maybe not to the university or course you want, but the better you do the better chance you have of getting what you want.
Even people who get scholarships don't use them for tuition, it's goes on accommodation, transport, food, and textbooks... or booze. Corporate scholarships usually include a guaranteed job at the end depending on grades.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
So please explain the seemingly widespread destruction of public and private property? Please explain the attacks on the police officers. Explain the Soviet flags etc.Uzique wrote:
"they all", huh? thanks for speaking for me and my friends that have all protested over this. thanks for speaking for the thousands of others. your tabloid-press and sensationalized media coverage sure is a definitive guide to the way things are working out here, on the ground. thanks for telling me what attitudes we possess from your armchair surveying.JohnG@lt wrote:
They all wanna be Anarchists in the UKIlocano wrote:
No argument from me. But apparently a small, but violent minority is ignoring that portion of aid.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
The UK it's probably different, but in Australia it's more or less forced on you. You can opt out of the loan for a 25% reduction in tuition fees though.Ilocano wrote:
No argument from me. But apparently a small, but violent minority is ignoring that portion of aid.DrunkFace wrote:
Why do we need them?Ilocano wrote:
100 Uni sourced scholarships? Yes. The rest, private scholarships. Aussie private sector not as generous as the US, well, do something about it. When you are successful and all, form your own foundations to help new Uni students. Can't afford it otherwise, lower your aspirations or sacrifice for the next generation. That's how it is here and most of Asia (Anglo zones excluded).
Anyone in the top 40% of year 12 graduates will be eligible to get government subsided tuition and an interest free (CPI adjusted) loan with no term limit to repay in order to attend a university. Maybe not to the university or course you want, but the better you do the better chance you have of getting what you want.
Even people who get scholarships don't use them for tuition, it's goes on accommodation, transport, food, and textbooks... or booze. Corporate scholarships usually include a guaranteed job at the end depending on grades.
seemingly widespread destruction of public and private property? there is no 'widespread destruction'. do you have any idea how big london is? how many people attend these marches? how many marches there have been in the last month? there have been perhaps 2 days of 'incidence', with around 20 people being arrested each time. one of my friends was on the roof of the conservative HQ on the 'big' event, and was detained and arrested. 95% of people on the roof were there to take photos and take part in a crowd phenomenon. less than 20 people were doing all the damage and destruction.
attacks on police? DO YOU HAVE ANY FUCKING CLUE AT ALL? the police are constantly under criticism here by the students, the student union, the press and the public in general. they are either a) terribly ineffectual at doing their job of organizing a smooth fucking protest (they keep making mistakes in route-planning, barricading where they shouldn't, generally being inept), b) terribly improper in their use of force (kettling 16 year old school-children for 6 hours in the cold, who were just making a peaceful protest on a day-trip? ok) or c) outright abusive in their use of force and power. peaceful crowds that were protesting in the assigned, marked spaces have been charged by horses. the student press and photo-journalists have been harassed and detained, against the law, every single time. why? freedom of the press impinged upon by the police. the police have also been using terrorist-level security 'measures', such as advanced CC-TV/surveillance technology, to index protestors faces and then chase them later via databases and issue fines/criminal charges. big brother level shit. so why are the police being attacked? i'm not sure anybody is attacking the police. there are altercations, scuffles, a few rowdy people... of course. you get that at every major event. that's like saying all rock-festival goers are violent hooligans because of the rare few that get into fights with the provided security forces. stupid fucking thinking.
the soviet flags? who are you - mccarthy? student activists always affiliate with the socialist-left. it's almost a bad cliche. is every student protesting against tuition fees making some ideological stand with extreme marxism? are they all carrying communist manifestos and waving heavy copies of das kapital? no. small, minority organisations are using the big events to get some publicity and put their slogans/images out there. it's a free news opportunity. do they even represent 5% of the student population? i wouldn't even say that 5% of the student population of this country are that politically 'active' and interested, period. let alone in socialist radicalism or, further still, anarchism. that's the media. as i said earlier about the 'storming' of the conservative HQ roof... the media were screaming "ANARCHISTS HAVE OVERTAKEN THE BUILDING! SOME FORM OF ANARCHIST ORGANISATION!" as if it was a terrorist attack. is my friend an anarchist? no. a bemused 20 year old just having a look at an interesting situation, that's all.
the key-word in your post is "seemingly". you'd do well to drop your stupid tone when all you're doing is quoting sensationalist media articles - from right-leaning, pro-government sources, no less. you'd do even better if you stopped trying to describe the political movements that most of us over here are involved in, somehow, on the ground, in real-life. it's like me telling you how the atmosphere was at a tea-party rally that you attended. utterly stupid.
attacks on police? DO YOU HAVE ANY FUCKING CLUE AT ALL? the police are constantly under criticism here by the students, the student union, the press and the public in general. they are either a) terribly ineffectual at doing their job of organizing a smooth fucking protest (they keep making mistakes in route-planning, barricading where they shouldn't, generally being inept), b) terribly improper in their use of force (kettling 16 year old school-children for 6 hours in the cold, who were just making a peaceful protest on a day-trip? ok) or c) outright abusive in their use of force and power. peaceful crowds that were protesting in the assigned, marked spaces have been charged by horses. the student press and photo-journalists have been harassed and detained, against the law, every single time. why? freedom of the press impinged upon by the police. the police have also been using terrorist-level security 'measures', such as advanced CC-TV/surveillance technology, to index protestors faces and then chase them later via databases and issue fines/criminal charges. big brother level shit. so why are the police being attacked? i'm not sure anybody is attacking the police. there are altercations, scuffles, a few rowdy people... of course. you get that at every major event. that's like saying all rock-festival goers are violent hooligans because of the rare few that get into fights with the provided security forces. stupid fucking thinking.
the soviet flags? who are you - mccarthy? student activists always affiliate with the socialist-left. it's almost a bad cliche. is every student protesting against tuition fees making some ideological stand with extreme marxism? are they all carrying communist manifestos and waving heavy copies of das kapital? no. small, minority organisations are using the big events to get some publicity and put their slogans/images out there. it's a free news opportunity. do they even represent 5% of the student population? i wouldn't even say that 5% of the student population of this country are that politically 'active' and interested, period. let alone in socialist radicalism or, further still, anarchism. that's the media. as i said earlier about the 'storming' of the conservative HQ roof... the media were screaming "ANARCHISTS HAVE OVERTAKEN THE BUILDING! SOME FORM OF ANARCHIST ORGANISATION!" as if it was a terrorist attack. is my friend an anarchist? no. a bemused 20 year old just having a look at an interesting situation, that's all.
the key-word in your post is "seemingly". you'd do well to drop your stupid tone when all you're doing is quoting sensationalist media articles - from right-leaning, pro-government sources, no less. you'd do even better if you stopped trying to describe the political movements that most of us over here are involved in, somehow, on the ground, in real-life. it's like me telling you how the atmosphere was at a tea-party rally that you attended. utterly stupid.
Last edited by Uzique (2010-12-09 17:47:39)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
that very nearly happened, if the media will lead you to believe anything11 Bravo wrote:
why dont they eradicate the royal family bollocks and use that money for education?
crack-squad of student hit-men stopped prince charles and camilla and were gonna MURDER them!
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11959950
what a brutal bunch of hardline, anarchists and young revolutionary marxist terrorists, eh galt?
and all that destruction and rioting behaviour! playing cards in the mud! dancing to dubstep! dressing up in costumes!
SINISTER INDEED
what a brutal bunch of hardline, anarchists and young revolutionary marxist terrorists, eh galt?
and all that destruction and rioting behaviour! playing cards in the mud! dancing to dubstep! dressing up in costumes!
SINISTER INDEED
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
All while you sit in your room playing WoW. CuteUzique wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11959950
what a brutal bunch of hardline, anarchists and young revolutionary marxist terrorists, eh galt?
and all that destruction and rioting behaviour! playing cards in the mud! dancing to dubstep! dressing up in costumes!
SINISTER INDEED
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat