BF2S Forums It seems not even Obama can argue for socialism any longer.

lowing wrote:

If practically 100% of you don't want guns to protect yourselves, why would their be a need to out law them from you. You just wouldn't buy them right?

We don't want crazies getting guns or people who aren't trained to handle a dangerous situation flinging them around. There are ample of ways to defend yourself without a gun, however if that's not possible then yes, there's the government who's supposed to do it's job - protect its citizens.

Iowing wrote:

Wonder how many of you would vote, if given a chance, to save 8,000 dollars a year on your tax bill, but will have to spend 300 dollars a month for health insurance. Nehhhh, I bet you wouldn't take it.

That is about the amount I spend on (government) health insurance though actually.

dayarath wrote:

lowing wrote:

If practically 100% of you don't want guns to protect yourselves, why would their be a need to out law them from you. You just wouldn't buy them right?

We don't want crazies getting guns or people who aren't trained to handle a dangerous situation flinging them around. There are ample of ways to defend yourself without a gun, however if that's not possible then yes, there's the government who's supposed to do it's job - protect its citizens.

Iowing wrote:

Wonder how many of you would vote, if given a chance, to save 8,000 dollars a year on your tax bill, but will have to spend 300 dollars a month for health insurance. Nehhhh, I bet you wouldn't take it.

That is about the amount I spend on (government) health insurance though actually.

My private healthcare AND govt healthcare doesn't amount to $300/mth.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

and how is France and Greece doing?

Somewhat better than the ultimate in free markets - Somalia.
No taxes, no healthcare, no gun control, total freedom - they don't even have Police so you're not paying for that!
Maybe you should move there.

Bringing up Somalia is about as relevant as bringing up North Korea.

NK is often brought up as an example of why socialism sucks.

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Somewhat better than the ultimate in free markets - Somalia.
No taxes, no healthcare, no gun control, total freedom - they don't even have Police so you're not paying for that!
Maybe you should move there.

Bringing up Somalia is about as relevant as bringing up North Korea.

NK is often brought up as an example of why socialism sucks.

Doesn't make it a valid argument when they do it so why would you go that route too?

Healthcare insurance- proposed, current, or otherwise is a scam. Show me a plan that doesn't involve someone else getting ripped off. The argument at best is that it is a necessary evil.

Ilocano wrote:

dayarath wrote:

lowing wrote:

and how is France and Greece doing?

Everyone in the EU hates greece, actually, all responsible members hate pretty much the entire southern part of Europe by now.

Hate em all you like, but everyone is entitled to the same education and healthcare.

lol yeah but not every is entitled to pay the same though right? Now you know my problem with it. Why should I pay MORE while others pay less if at all.....Because I have it for the taking?

dayarath wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

Hate em all you like, but everyone is entitled to the same education and healthcare.

The european union isn't one country under one government just yet, we aren't responsible for upholding the principles of another country. The greeks lied to the EU concerning their financial status and to their public in making everyone believe they could afford living an illusion.

Just look at the age with which people retire in the southern countries, it's ridiculous. Was something like 52 for Greece, 55 for Spain/Portugal/Italy and 60 for France. It's no surprise they're all financially fucked.

The reason they're getting bailed out is because the north has trillions of investments in the south.

wait a second, you mean you resent bailing out a country NOT responsible enough to manage their own affairs? Hmmmmm I wonder why that attitude does not work for resenting the  bailing out an individual for not being responsible enough to mange their personal affairs.

lowing wrote:

lol yeah but not every is entitled to pay the same though right? Now you know my problem with it. Why should I pay MORE while others pay less if at all.....Because I have it for the taking?

They're principles that all of society upholds. People who make more money pay more because that makes the system affordable. You could tax everyone the same but that would either mean that A; you can't afford the current system anymore or B; people in lower tax brackets get overtaxed leaving their entire income split inbetween tax and cost of living = riot. That, and the principle that if you are succesful in this society you should pay some of your succes back into it.

It doesn't in any way impair your quality of living. If you earn alot of money you will still be considerably richer than anyone in the lower brackets and should be able to afford most luxuries you wish to indulge in.

The greeks hate you and despise the thought of real work. Maybe you should have broken ties decades ago? Or maybe you should just pull their weight indefinitely? Fuck if I care. It's your choice. I now make it a point not to argue what is fair economically with other countries.

A country is made up of individuals.  You noted yourself.  Every individual has the right to the same medical and education that you have.  What's the difference if they are in another country?  What's the difference if they've been lying forever?  Why should it only apply to your society?

I just find it sickening that they, the Greeks, are blaming everyone but themselves. Looking through the headlines it would seem blame is all they do now.

dayarath wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

A country is made up of individuals.  You noted yourself.  Every individual has the right to the same medical and education that you have.  What's the difference if they are in another country?  What's the difference if they've been lying forever?  Why should it only apply to your society?

Same reason why you aren't spreading democracy in north korea right now. While to you it is a constitutional right I don't think you have an obligation to provide for societies which you haven't payed a dime in, of which you don't know the people and one who doesn't provide anything of value to you.

So, what's the difference if Iowing and I are applying the same princiiples in our own country.  Why should we support those individuals who choose not to better themselves?  Who have not payed a dime into our society or provide anything of value?

Kmar wrote:

I just find it sickening that they, the Greeks, are blaming everyone but themselves. Looking through the headlines it would seem blame is all they do now.

Goldman Sachs did fuck their bonds though.