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wat?

Well we did use bubba's drill press

I like the 1911, but for an average user I would never recommend a single-action cocked and locked firearm.
If you're practising daily or weekly then fine, otherwise there are just too many known knowns.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-02-12 03:53:43)

Reciprocity wrote:

If I had the money to burn I'd be tempted to get the 5-25X56 PMII.  It's a great piece of glass.  For now I'm happy with my little USO.

I don't think leupolds are terrible, they just seem to be stuck back in 1998.  they're still trying to sell the same old mk4 like it's a high end scope.  maybe they're stepping back from the tactical market.

Leupold is stuck in 1998 with their Mk4, because their core market for the Mk4 LR/T is stuck in 1988.

I know a few old Army Infantry (Airborne/Ranger/SF/Pathfinder/Badgefinder/GIJoe/Sniper/etc) Master Sergeants.  If it's not a 7.62x51, in a McMillan stock, wearing a Leupold Mk4 LR/T - it's "newfangled TactiCool Eurotrash". 

Hell, one of them, a trained sniper and armorer, swears up and down that a muzzle brake screws up the accuracy of a bullet. Done right, it helps accuracy by cutting down on 90% of the gas pushing on the base of the bullet as it transitions from interior to exterior regimes, thereby minimizing precession and nutation caused by high velocity gas flowing unevenly over the base of the bullet as it exits the muzzle. On muzzle exit, a 174gr 7.62mm projectile (M118LR) is moving about 2580 fps, while the (45 grains of) gas escaping from the barrel behind it is moving at roughly 4000fps.  Gas with 26% of the mass of the projectile, flowing over it at a relative speed of 1400fps (supersonic relative to projectile motion) from the rear - yeah... getting that away from the base of the bullet is a good thing. 

But to an old Airborne Ranger, anything new and different can and will get them killed.  If it's worked for 25+ years and hasn't killed them yet, they are going to stick with that.  Rationale makes sense, from that perspective, but makes it hard to convince them to adapt newer equipment.  And it is those old experienced and seasoned E-8's & E-9's that are advising the officers on what to buy for the line units.  And it is also those old experienced and seasoned E-8's & E-9's that are head instructors at the schools teaching the newbie enlisted what is good voodoo and what is bad juju.

rdx-fx wrote:

lowing wrote:

Is there not a lot of FTF or FTE with 3 inch 1911's

The 1911 was designed to function properly with the full-sized barrel.
The short Commander version was not properly redesigned to work with the shorter barrel and lighter recoiling mass.
Commander is, according to the 1911 gurus I know, a half-assed redesign that wasn't completely re-engineered properly.

Cam angle, recoil mass, barrel time, slide lockup, and frame-and-slide inertia are a few of the points I can think of off the top of my head where the Commander was directly copied from the full-sized without engineering consideration of the new design parameters taken into account.

Short version:
If you want a .45 1911, get the full sized version. 
More reliable than the Commander, more good gunsmiths know how to work them, and there are good parts for them readily available.

ok and your opinions on the manufacturers for under 1200.00?

If you can find a Dan Wesson 1911 in your price range, that would be my recommendation.  Unfortuantely, they increased their prices recently. 

Most major 1911 manufacturers have figured out how to make reliable pistols.  Some Kimbers (with external extractors) are lousy.  Most SA and Colts are good.  Most Kimbers are fine, but they had a high lemon rate a few years ago.  STI makes good guns, but theirs tend to be a little modified over the conventional design (some of which are over your limit).  I've also heard a lot of good reviews from the S&W line.

In the used market, Les Baer makes very nice pistols that would fit in your range.

The big thing with 1911s is more preventative maintenance is required.  The recoil spring needs to be replaced every so often and the gun should be cleaned every few hundred rounds.  The 1911 isn't supposed to be run up to the 5,000+ round count with no maintenance.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2011-02-12 19:02:38)

rdx-fx wrote:

lowing wrote:

ok and your opinions on the manufacturers for under 1200.00?

Personally?  I've got an HK USP 45, and had an old (1988?) FN High Power MkIII for years.

I miss that FN HP - nothing had such an amazingly consistent repeatable natural point of aim, as that old FN HP.
Nothing worked so well shooting one-handed as that FN HP.

I'll ask the M1911 gurus I know, see what their take on the current manufacturers is.
Ten years ago, the guys that bet their lives on their pistols reliability, used I think Kimber 1911's and a good number of Colt 1911's.
(Inspected, tweaked, modified, and liberally doused with specially blessed holy oils by a small cadre of specially trained armorers versed in the Priesthood of Colt Armorers).

Though, as I recall, Kimber has changed how they build things at least 2-3 times since then.

If I were looking for a 1911, I would take a look at Ken Elmore's shop, Specialized Armament. He, quite literally, wrote the book for the Colt Armorer's Course for the 1911 and M-16, IIRC. 
People I know who use 1911's for their "work gun", point me towards Ken Elmore's shop for parts and tools for AR-15's and M1911's.

Really appreciate the info. The FN and the HK are in the running was leaning toward the Sig Sauer P220. Now I gotta rethink it all again .

If you could pick only 1 would you take the FN over the HK or the other way around??

rdx-fx wrote:

Ten years ago, the guys that bet their lives on their pistols reliability, used I think Kimber 1911's and a good number of Colt 1911's.
(Inspected, tweaked, modified, and liberally doused with specially blessed holy oils by a small cadre of specially trained armorers versed in the Priesthood of Colt Armorers).

That says it all really, they're ok if they're loose - but inaccurate, if accurised they need a lot of attention, and to get accurate they need a lot of attention.

Raimius wrote:

The big thing with 1911s is more preventative maintenance is required.  The recoil spring needs to be replaced every so often and the gun should be cleaned every few hundred rounds.  The 1911 isn't supposed to be run up to the 5,000+ round count with no maintenance.

A friend of mine never cleaned his CZ, or his Glock, and he must have but 5,000 unjacketed rounds through each with no issues.

My Browning HP didn't seem to need it, but I did clean it every thousand rounds or so just to be sure. After I honed the rough - from the factory - chamber, and fixed the - 'fixed by the UK's HP expert gunsmith' - sear I never had a problem.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-02-13 04:16:20)

I think he's talking about the FNP 45, not the FN HP.

Dilbert_X wrote:

I think he's talking about the FNP 45, not the FN HP.

FNP 45 and FN HP MkIII are very different pistols, in case there was any confusion there, Lowing.

holy shit synthetic mosins look odd... couldn't tell it was a mosin until I looked at the trigger/lock area

what scope?

I have a cheap 4-9x20 Barska...

Last edited by Trotskygrad (2011-02-13 10:43:21)