BF3s Book Club

2011-04-04 18:58:56

#976

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6670|'Murka

And you still haven't shown that visual art today serves any function other than to be viewed for subjective enjoyment. The "message" one gets via visual art varies based on the viewer, does it not (unless, of course, you're talking about a schematic of some sort, but that's not really "art" per se)? Yes, it's a picture of a potted plant, but the aesthetics that make it "art" are still purely subjective in nature.

Jesus Christ. Do I really have to point that out? (see, I can do that too). I can't believe I still had to point this out (and again, I can do that too). Your condescending attitude is annoying, rather than hilarious. We can do this all day.

Now. Are you going to keep repeating the same nonsense about art history?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-04-04 19:02:12

#977

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

so you're saying that art doesn't transmit a message because the interpretation/reception of the message is subjective? for that reason, art can only be 'nice things to look at'? i give up.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-04 19:18:03

#978

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6670|'Murka

Uzique wrote:
so you're saying that art doesn't transmit a message because the interpretation/reception of the message is subjective? for that reason, art can only be 'nice things to look at'? i give up.

The overall "message" of a work of art is more than what appears in the image, do you not agree? It is part of the emotional response of the viewer, which is tied to the aesthetics of the piece--which varies from viewer to viewer, based on their predilections. Whatever it relays varies from viewer to viewer, to greater and lesser degrees, even more so when you start getting into more abstract genres.

That said, it is still not a "functional" piece. It's sole purpose in life is to be viewed by an observer, unlike a book or architecture, as mentioned before. It is not functional. Merely making a distinction, not a criticism. You are finding negativity where none exists...again.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-04-04 19:35:02

#979

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

it depends on your definition of 'function'. why does a piece of fiction have a 'function' but a sculpture does not? i don't understand, at all. and what do you mean by emotional response being tied to the 'aesthetics' of the piece? i'm not sure i understand that, either. the aesthetics of a work of art are part of a wider axiology... and viewer's emotions don't have much to do with it. you're looking at interpretations, heuristics and hermeneutics, there. they are all separate from the work of art as an autonomous whole, and fall into a different area of theory and criticism. i think all art, across all mediums, carries a meaning, quite simply. some are literal/figurative, some are metaphoric/symbolic, and some are abstract. but the meaning is still there. i do not think 'x' has a function and 'y' does not. i think each medium has different modalities and characteristics. the written word on a semiotic and semantic level has a lot of metaphoricity and linguistic ambiguity-- it is a shifting system of signification. the visual symbol is more immediate and (can be) more literal. it's really hard to compare and even harder to generalize. i am not making an historical argument here, though. by referring to art history i am just selecting examples; everything is still relevant today. the styles and techniques of the medieval period did not die and become obsolete after the renaissance. just as abstract expressionism didn't die with the new york school.

Last edited by Uzique (2011-04-04 19:35:47)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-05 02:40:36

#980

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6670|'Murka

Perhaps I'm not explaining my position well enough. Or perhaps we're simply on opposite sides and will never reconcile our positions. Doesn't matter. It was an interesting and fun discussion, regardless. At least I thought so.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-04-05 02:42:20

#981

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5496|Cleveland, Ohio

well this thread is shit. might as well de-sticky it.

2011-04-05 22:52:08

#982

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|7030|PNW

Point me out a thread that isn't, iyo.

2011-04-25 14:24:31

#983

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

i had to read it for a dissertation but jean baudrillard's 'america' really glued me

very interesting book... short, too. great writing, also. not very 'heavy' on the theory-philosophy jargon

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-03 13:48:21

#984

presidentsheep: Back to the Fuhrer; +208|6220|Places 'n such

So I put down the great gatsby for a couple of weeks whilst reading other stuff then tried to pick up where I left off but just couldn't get into it. So I decided to give it a fresh chance and to my surprise I'm actually enjoying it.

I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.

2011-05-04 02:53:02

#985

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6365|eXtreme to the maX

Reading 'The girl with the dragon tattoo'
Maybe something got lost in the translation, maybe journalists shouldn't write novels, it reads like a Reuters article.

Otherwise its not lauded by the literati so probably I should just kill myself.

Fuck Israel

2011-05-04 03:30:14

#986

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

genre fiction... /shrug

what were you expecting, exactly? they're books almost written for the film adaptation

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-05 02:00:29

#987

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6365|eXtreme to the maX

To be fair he was writing it in Swedish, which can't be easy.

Fuck Israel

2011-05-05 02:07:10

#988

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6991|St. Andrews / Oslo

What?

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png

2011-05-05 03:59:04

#989

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

Dilbert_X wrote:
To be fair he was writing it in Swedish, which can't be easy.

the swedish genre fiction writers seem to be in vogue at the moment, actually

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-05 04:00:31

#990

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6365|eXtreme to the maX

I like the minimalist style, but this is just too far.

Fuck Israel

2011-05-05 10:23:35

#991

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

i'm not sure it's meant to be 'minimalist'. minimalism is an amazing technical proficiency - maybe one of the most difficult and respected styles in modern, experimental prose. if you want to see some of the best use of cutting and effective minimalism, read some chekhov or some carver. it's so purposefully understated and devastatingly pessimistic. really fantastic stuff. i think this stuff is 'minimal' in the way that dan brown is 'minimal', which is basically a misnomer for 'simple'. simple prose and minimal prose are two entirely different things; one is an intentional decision, to contribute towards some wider aesthetic point; the other is just an elementary use of the language, period. these 'genre fiction' writers write pretty simple-to-grasp stuff so they can hit the widest audience. in translation i imagine that effect is magnified.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-06 03:09:37

#992

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6365|eXtreme to the maX

Aha, I'll say its simple then, elementary, no descriptive flights of anything.

Fuck Israel

2011-05-10 20:21:18

#993

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6859|132 and Bush

America
by Jean Baudrillard

In this, his most accessible and evocative book, France's leading philosopher of postmodernism takes to the freeways in a collection of traveler's tales from the land of hyperreality.

Uzique, I can't help but want to read this now, after looking over the comments ..lol

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2011-05-10 23:03:27

#994

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6933|Canberra, AUS

hahaha wow. is that a troll review?

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-05-10 23:28:42

#995

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6859|132 and Bush

He posted that in all seriousness.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/688540.America

However

Uzique wrote:
One of the most esoteric and exciting studies of the American nation and culture ever undertaken; Baudrillard merges the mind of the analytic European philosopher-theoretician with the prose-poetry vision of the greatest American novelists. Insightful, contemplative and - most unique of all for a work of its type - endlessly entertaining. The ceaseless irony of the postmodern blends with the wide-eyed joy of the journeyman, and the calculating intelligence of an academic cogitates in the psyche of a desert-spiritualist; the long tradition of French intellectuals exploring the New World finds a worthy successor in 'America'.

.. and so I decided to pick it up this w/e.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2011-05-11 02:23:25

#996

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

people have to realise two things when they read that:

yes, it's a french postmodernist philosopher doing the classic 'tour' with an obvious postmodernist and post-structuralist twist

and it's jean baudrillard for fuck's sake, of course it's going to be self-indulgent and a little far-out. that's 90% of the entertainment value. who would really want to read some dry book of theory based on a man's travels? the very nature of a travel book means it needs some energy and pace driving through it.

i think it's a fantastic book... it's just what i needed after actually having to read his dry theory. it brings his thought to life in a way that crosses the commentary and observation of someone like tocqueville with the prose of a kerouac or a fitzgerald.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-11 02:29:28

#997

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6729

oh and i'm glad that guy picked up on the breakdancing comment, which is easily the most charming part of the book - the only paragraph in the entire thing that has aged and become irrelevant by time. top prize to the guy in 2011 being able to make a guy commenting on breakdancing as an emerging phenomenon in the 80's as a little bit fantastical. 'america' is a book of america in the particular reaganite years. if you don't read it with contextual awareness (who doesn't read a travel book without knowing what decade it's set in? it's like reading twain's the innocents abroad and critiquing it as misguided) then you probably shouldn't be reviewing books on goodreads.

Last edited by Uzique (2011-05-11 02:30:21)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-05-11 02:31:21

#998

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|7030|PNW

Crap, now I'm interested.

2011-05-12 06:48:22

#999

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5617|London, England

Reading "Kitchen Confidential" by Anthony Bourdain.

He's the guy that you might've seen hosting the show "No Reservations" on the travel channel where he travels the world eating exotic food. This is the book that made him famous and landed that job. I'm about halfway into it right now and it's one of the most entertaining books that I've read in a long while. Starting from his childhood summering in France with his family up through his drug addled years working as a line cook in Manhattan up to the point where he turns his life around and actually turns himself into a quality chef, the book gives you a look at what it's really like to work the line and run a kitchen in a restaurant. It's not all glitz and glammer like we've come to see it through the lens of the celebrity chefs on tv. It's hard work.

If you care at all about food, it is a wondrous book to read. If you don't, it will probably bore the pants off of you. I give it a 4 star rating.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-05-12 08:25:55

#1000

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6670|'Murka

Just finished "Bones of the Hills" by Conn Iggulden. It's the third in his series on Genghis Khan. As a fan of his work and historical fiction in general, I knew I would enjoy this book. It breathes life into the subject of the Mongol Empire and gets the reader motivated to research the history behind the story that is being read. As always, Iggulden's facts are, by and large, spot on. He takes very little leeway to make his story flow. The notes pages at the end sum up any deviations, which, as I pointed out, are minor.

This book gets into the gambles that Genghis took, how he nearly lost his empire when he took on the Arabs, and how heavily he relied on one general (Tsubodai). Strategy, adjustment to enemy tactics (and their adjustments to his), and allowing personal grudges to cloud strategic judgment, both for Genghis and others.

Overall, a very good read, just like the rest of Iggulden's work.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

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Uzique wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique wrote:

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