Yes.eleven bravo wrote:
because of lazy black people and muslims and illegals
Tuition has risen because our public universities are run like businesses rather than public amenities.Jay wrote:
Why has tuition risen?Turquoise wrote:
It's not a matter of a decision being unrelated to your own motivation -- it's a matter of how the odds can be stacked against you by things out of your control.lowing wrote:
Working longer hours because they are trying to catch up for the debt they incurred. Both of those things are a personal decision. It is not mandatory. Taking on bigger debt, again, a personal decision, achieving lower education standards, once again, a personal decision.
Get back with me when, you can come up with a personal problem, that has nothing to do with the decisions you make in life.
For example, tuition rates in most American states have risen much faster than inflation.
Inflation has outpaced median wages in most professions by a considerable amount.
These external factors don't preclude success, but they certainly make it harder than before.
Why has inflation outpaced wages?
Actually, quite the opposite. They raise tuition, the government raises the subsidy for low income students, they raise tuition, the government raises the subsidy etc. They keep raising prices because they know they can get precisely the same number of students but reap more profit and pay higher salaries to their staff. Remove those subsidies and tuition would become more or less static.SenorToenails wrote:
I can surmise that tuition has risen mostly because people are willing to pay...so as a university, why not price yourself out of the 'lower' groups if you want to be an exclusive institution.Jay wrote:
Why has tuition risen?Turquoise wrote:
It's not a matter of a decision being unrelated to your own motivation -- it's a matter of how the odds can be stacked against you by things out of your control.
For example, tuition rates in most American states have risen much faster than inflation.
Inflation has outpaced median wages in most professions by a considerable amount.
These external factors don't preclude success, but they certainly make it harder than before.
Why has inflation outpaced wages?
Last edited by Jay (2011-04-06 11:27:02)
They have risen, I assume, to a level that the market will bare? maybe? sorta?Turquoise wrote:
It's not a matter of a decision being unrelated to your own motivation -- it's a matter of how the odds can be stacked against you by things out of your control.lowing wrote:
Working longer hours because they are trying to catch up for the debt they incurred. Both of those things are a personal decision. It is not mandatory. Taking on bigger debt, again, a personal decision, achieving lower education standards, once again, a personal decision.Dilbert_X wrote:
I see people working longer hours, taking on bigger debts and achieving lower educational standards than ever before.
Get back with me when, you can come up with a personal problem, that has nothing to do with the decisions you make in life.
For example, tuition rates in most American states have risen much faster than inflation.
Inflation has outpaced median wages in most professions by a considerable amount.
These external factors don't preclude success, but they certainly make it harder than before.
It's nice because the middle class that doesn't qualify for any of these 'grants' get fucked over in the end anyway.Jay wrote:
Actually, quite the opposite. They raise tuition, the government raises the subsidy for low income students, they raise tuition, the government raises the subsidy etc. They keep raising prices because they know they can get precisely the same number of students but reap more profit and pay higher salaries to their staff. Remove those subsidies and tuition would become more or less static.SenorToenails wrote:
I can surmise that tuition has risen mostly because people are willing to pay...so as a university, why not price yourself out of the 'lower' groups if you want to be an exclusive institution.Jay wrote:
Why has tuition risen?
Why has inflation outpaced wages?
I addressed tuition...Turquoise wrote:
Tuition has risen because our public universities are run like businesses rather than public amenities.
Inflation has outpaced wages partially because of globalization and partially because of public debt.
See my editSenorToenails wrote:
It's nice because the middle class that doesn't qualify for any of these 'grants' get fucked over in the end anyway.Jay wrote:
Actually, quite the opposite. They raise tuition, the government raises the subsidy for low income students, they raise tuition, the government raises the subsidy etc. They keep raising prices because they know they can get precisely the same number of students but reap more profit and pay higher salaries to their staff. Remove those subsidies and tuition would become more or less static.SenorToenails wrote:
I can surmise that tuition has risen mostly because people are willing to pay...so as a university, why not price yourself out of the 'lower' groups if you want to be an exclusive institution.
See Jay's response. That's pretty much the whole deal.lowing wrote:
They have risen, I assume, to a level that the market will bare? maybe? sorta?Turquoise wrote:
It's not a matter of a decision being unrelated to your own motivation -- it's a matter of how the odds can be stacked against you by things out of your control.lowing wrote:
Working longer hours because they are trying to catch up for the debt they incurred. Both of those things are a personal decision. It is not mandatory. Taking on bigger debt, again, a personal decision, achieving lower education standards, once again, a personal decision.
Get back with me when, you can come up with a personal problem, that has nothing to do with the decisions you make in life.
For example, tuition rates in most American states have risen much faster than inflation.
Inflation has outpaced median wages in most professions by a considerable amount.
These external factors don't preclude success, but they certainly make it harder than before.
I don't totally agree with your analysis, but we agree that our central banking system is pretty fucked.Jay wrote:
I addressed tuition...Turquoise wrote:
Tuition has risen because our public universities are run like businesses rather than public amenities.
Inflation has outpaced wages partially because of globalization and partially because of public debt.
Inflation is built into the central banking system by design. If there was no inflation (or heaven forbid, deflation ), people could make a pile of money in their twenties and sit on it till the day they die. Inflation forces skilled labor to stay in the labor pool until they retire or else watch their money slowly vanish over time. This is why every central bank in the world defines between 1 and 2% inflation as ideal. It ensures that the value of money halves every fifty to one hundred years. The corollary to this is it destroys family fortunes and 'levels the playing field'.
Inflation not keeping pace with wages is actually a myth. Wages have kept pace just fine. And no, the middle class is not shrinking, it's expanding.
And it just about describes my experience with college costs...lolJay wrote:
See my editSenorToenails wrote:
It's nice because the middle class that doesn't qualify for any of these 'grants' get fucked over in the end anyway.Jay wrote:
Actually, quite the opposite. They raise tuition, the government raises the subsidy for low income students, they raise tuition, the government raises the subsidy etc. They keep raising prices because they know they can get precisely the same number of students but reap more profit and pay higher salaries to their staff. Remove those subsidies and tuition would become more or less static.
Can quibble about the second paragraph. It mostly depends on which data you use. Most 'liberal' data sets I see trotted out by union supporters include 1970s data in it because the hyperinflation props up their argument.Turquoise wrote:
I don't totally agree with your analysis, but we agree that our central banking system is pretty fucked.Jay wrote:
I addressed tuition...Turquoise wrote:
Tuition has risen because our public universities are run like businesses rather than public amenities.
Inflation has outpaced wages partially because of globalization and partially because of public debt.
Inflation is built into the central banking system by design. If there was no inflation (or heaven forbid, deflation ), people could make a pile of money in their twenties and sit on it till the day they die. Inflation forces skilled labor to stay in the labor pool until they retire or else watch their money slowly vanish over time. This is why every central bank in the world defines between 1 and 2% inflation as ideal. It ensures that the value of money halves every fifty to one hundred years. The corollary to this is it destroys family fortunes and 'levels the playing field'.
Inflation not keeping pace with wages is actually a myth. Wages have kept pace just fine. And no, the middle class is not shrinking, it's expanding.
Most of the data I've seen is actually comparing our own wage vs. inflation with that of other countries. Canadian workers, for example, are considerably better off today when adjusting for inflation than workers here on average.Jay wrote:
Can quibble about the second paragraph. It mostly depends on which data you use. Most 'liberal' data sets I see trotted out by union supporters include 1970s data in it because the hyperinflation props up their argument.Turquoise wrote:
I don't totally agree with your analysis, but we agree that our central banking system is pretty fucked.Jay wrote:
I addressed tuition...
Inflation is built into the central banking system by design. If there was no inflation (or heaven forbid, deflation ), people could make a pile of money in their twenties and sit on it till the day they die. Inflation forces skilled labor to stay in the labor pool until they retire or else watch their money slowly vanish over time. This is why every central bank in the world defines between 1 and 2% inflation as ideal. It ensures that the value of money halves every fifty to one hundred years. The corollary to this is it destroys family fortunes and 'levels the playing field'.
Inflation not keeping pace with wages is actually a myth. Wages have kept pace just fine. And no, the middle class is not shrinking, it's expanding.
Well, they've had an economic boom for the past decade or so. Shale oil is going to turn them into a powerhouse for a while.Turquoise wrote:
Most of the data I've seen is actually comparing our own wage vs. inflation with that of other countries. Canadian workers, for example, are considerably better off today when adjusting for inflation than workers here on average.Jay wrote:
Can quibble about the second paragraph. It mostly depends on which data you use. Most 'liberal' data sets I see trotted out by union supporters include 1970s data in it because the hyperinflation props up their argument.Turquoise wrote:
I don't totally agree with your analysis, but we agree that our central banking system is pretty fucked.
Indeed... Australia and Norway are in great shape for similar reasons as well.Jay wrote:
Well, they've had an economic boom for the past decade or so. Shale oil is going to turn them into a powerhouse for a while.Turquoise wrote:
Most of the data I've seen is actually comparing our own wage vs. inflation with that of other countries. Canadian workers, for example, are considerably better off today when adjusting for inflation than workers here on average.Jay wrote:
Can quibble about the second paragraph. It mostly depends on which data you use. Most 'liberal' data sets I see trotted out by union supporters include 1970s data in it because the hyperinflation props up their argument.
I read his response, so basically, the producers have to work harder to get their kids in college while the non-producers don't need to do shit, because the govt. subsidizes their tuition regardless, while I do not qualify? Was this the "fairness", you all were talking about? and no one can figure out why people are pissed about the leeching and moochers?Turquoise wrote:
See Jay's response. That's pretty much the whole deal.lowing wrote:
They have risen, I assume, to a level that the market will bare? maybe? sorta?Turquoise wrote:
It's not a matter of a decision being unrelated to your own motivation -- it's a matter of how the odds can be stacked against you by things out of your control.
For example, tuition rates in most American states have risen much faster than inflation.
Inflation has outpaced median wages in most professions by a considerable amount.
These external factors don't preclude success, but they certainly make it harder than before.
Same could happen for us if we could silence the enviros. My brothers company just layed off half of their workforce because of the Gulf drilling moratorium.Turquoise wrote:
Indeed... Australia and Norway are in great shape for similar reasons as well.Jay wrote:
Well, they've had an economic boom for the past decade or so. Shale oil is going to turn them into a powerhouse for a while.Turquoise wrote:
Most of the data I've seen is actually comparing our own wage vs. inflation with that of other countries. Canadian workers, for example, are considerably better off today when adjusting for inflation than workers here on average.
I disagree. We could simultaneously drill all of our possible wells and still not produce enough revenue to keep pace with government spending or paying down the debt to a suitable enough degree to sustain the sort of growth and advancement that these smaller nations have been experiencing.Jay wrote:
Same could happen for us if we could silence the enviros. My brothers company just layed off half of their workforce because of the Gulf drilling moratorium.Turquoise wrote:
Indeed... Australia and Norway are in great shape for similar reasons as well.Jay wrote:
Well, they've had an economic boom for the past decade or so. Shale oil is going to turn them into a powerhouse for a while.
But...don't you know that ALL wells in the gulf are ticking tomb bombs? Just waiting to EXPLODE! Also ALL blowout preventers are totally defective.Jay wrote:
Same could happen for us if we could silence the enviros. My brothers company just layed off half of their workforce because of the Gulf drilling moratorium.Turquoise wrote:
Indeed... Australia and Norway are in great shape for similar reasons as well.Jay wrote:
Well, they've had an economic boom for the past decade or so. Shale oil is going to turn them into a powerhouse for a while.
It has farther reaching consequences than simply college tuition.lowing wrote:
I read his response, so basically, the producers have to work harder to get their kids in college while the non-producers don't need to do shit, because the govt. subsidizes their tuition regardless, while I do not qualify? Was this the "fairness", you all were talking about? and no one can figure out why people are pissed about the leeching and moochers?Turquoise wrote:
See Jay's response. That's pretty much the whole deal.lowing wrote:
They have risen, I assume, to a level that the market will bare? maybe? sorta?
Hey, I can't argue with you there.lowing wrote:
I read his response, so basically, the producers have to work harder to get their kids in college while the non-producers don't need to do shit, because the govt. subsidizes their tuition regardless, while I do not qualify? Was this the "fairness", you all were talking about? and no one can figure out why people are pissed about the leeching and moochers?Turquoise wrote:
See Jay's response. That's pretty much the whole deal.lowing wrote:
They have risen, I assume, to a level that the market will bare? maybe? sorta?
Well, there's more at work than just that, but yes, that's part of it.Jay wrote:
It has farther reaching consequences than simply college tuition.lowing wrote:
I read his response, so basically, the producers have to work harder to get their kids in college while the non-producers don't need to do shit, because the govt. subsidizes their tuition regardless, while I do not qualify? Was this the "fairness", you all were talking about? and no one can figure out why people are pissed about the leeching and moochers?Turquoise wrote:
See Jay's response. That's pretty much the whole deal.
Take that example and extrapolate it onto the rest of the economy. Think about what happens when you start handing out welfare checks to those at the bottom in order to raise their 'quality of life'. Who gains? Who suffers?
I know this, this is basically, the point of my entire arguments regarding the liberal philosophy and agenda in America.Jay wrote:
It has farther reaching consequences than simply college tuition.lowing wrote:
I read his response, so basically, the producers have to work harder to get their kids in college while the non-producers don't need to do shit, because the govt. subsidizes their tuition regardless, while I do not qualify? Was this the "fairness", you all were talking about? and no one can figure out why people are pissed about the leeching and moochers?Turquoise wrote:
See Jay's response. That's pretty much the whole deal.
Take that example and extrapolate it onto the rest of the economy. Think about what happens when you start handing out welfare checks to those at the bottom in order to raise their 'quality of life'. Who gains? Who suffers?
Right, there's a lot more to it. The short answer is that it generates inflation and qualifies more people as poor because those welfare checks eventually raise the poverty line. Poverty line rises, subsidies rise, and just like with college tuition you have a self inflating cycle.Turquoise wrote:
Well, there's more at work than just that, but yes, that's part of it.Jay wrote:
It has farther reaching consequences than simply college tuition.lowing wrote:
I read his response, so basically, the producers have to work harder to get their kids in college while the non-producers don't need to do shit, because the govt. subsidizes their tuition regardless, while I do not qualify? Was this the "fairness", you all were talking about? and no one can figure out why people are pissed about the leeching and moochers?
Take that example and extrapolate it onto the rest of the economy. Think about what happens when you start handing out welfare checks to those at the bottom in order to raise their 'quality of life'. Who gains? Who suffers?
What the people on top are doing is even worse. As much as it costs us to keep up entitlement programs, what the financial sector gets away with has the very real potential to destroy our economy altogether.lowing wrote:
I know this, this is basically, the point of my entire arguments regarding the liberal philosophy and agenda in America.Jay wrote:
It has farther reaching consequences than simply college tuition.lowing wrote:
I read his response, so basically, the producers have to work harder to get their kids in college while the non-producers don't need to do shit, because the govt. subsidizes their tuition regardless, while I do not qualify? Was this the "fairness", you all were talking about? and no one can figure out why people are pissed about the leeching and moochers?
Take that example and extrapolate it onto the rest of the economy. Think about what happens when you start handing out welfare checks to those at the bottom in order to raise their 'quality of life'. Who gains? Who suffers?
kind of a broad statement there. example please. (not being a smart ass). What people and what are they doing that is illegal?Turquoise wrote:
What the people on top are doing is even worse. As much as it costs us to keep up entitlement programs, what the financial sector gets away with has the very real potential to destroy our economy altogether.lowing wrote:
I know this, this is basically, the point of my entire arguments regarding the liberal philosophy and agenda in America.Jay wrote:
It has farther reaching consequences than simply college tuition.
Take that example and extrapolate it onto the rest of the economy. Think about what happens when you start handing out welfare checks to those at the bottom in order to raise their 'quality of life'. Who gains? Who suffers?
Essentially, in America, we're putting everything at risk for cronyism.