How so?Spark wrote:
Yeah the small matter of concentration camps and gas chambers being one of the more minor differences.
Dilbert this line of posting is utterly, utterly disgraceful.
Nope, they wanted them out of Germany and Europe, they were free to leave if they could prove they had somewhere to go and wouldn't be coming back.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
They wanted rid of the Jews from the whole world. This presented them with the problem of where to put them. Hence the Madagascar option. Finally it was decided the most efficient and simplistic way was the organized gassing.
Right, but I'm not talking about using the holocaust as an excuse, whereby I would probably agree with you (although I haven't looked into the matter enough). It'sUzique wrote:
spark don't fall for the holocaust rhetoric. it has been rinsed by the zionists way past the point of being tasteful. the jews demanded a homeland as a recompense for atrocities committed against them but did not bat a single holy eyelid at befouling the human rights of other 'undesirables'. the arabs are to the zionist what the jew is to the aryan. it's the same shit, but with a different face to it. right from the end of the world war, from the get-go, jewish groups were committing atrocities and assassinating people. "utterly disgraceful". my QQ cup for the post-holocaust thing is very empty; it's the same sentimental political rhetoric that justifies the (illegal) wars in the middle-east, post-9/11. it only goes so far.
having to point out this that gets up me.stating that the zionists aren't doing anything as severe as the nazis is a moot-point. of course they aren't - it's an entirely different time and circumstance. clearly, after ww2 thatwouldn't float.
Last edited by Spark (2011-07-08 19:46:26)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world- … t-14125033Editorial in left-of-centre, independent broadsheet Ha'aretz
It is couched in vague language... This vagueness is intentional, designed to conceal the goal of spreading a wide protective net over the settlements, whose products, activities and in fact very existence are the main reason for the boycott initiatives, both domestic and foreign... Knesset members who vote for this law must understand that they are supporting the gagging of protests as part of an ongoing effort to liquidate democracy.
Avirama Golan in left-of-centre, independent broadsheet Ha'aretz
Israel's image is a truly trivial issue compared to the process of change being wrought in Israeli society by the cabal of Yisrael Beitenu, extremist rabbis and Kahanists. This process is crudely erasing entire entries from the democratic dictionary, and in their place - via a series of focused laws with intentionally vague wording - it is putting blatantly totalitarian values. The Boycott Law is just one step in this process.
Gershon Baskin in English-language The Jerusalem Post
The legislative agenda of this Knesset, sponsored by this government and promoted by hate and fear mongers, is further evidence that Israel is digging its heels in against a current whose strength is increasing. The 'Nakba Law,' the allegiance oath, the Anti-political NGO laws, the Anti-boycott Law - all these are symptoms of a society which has lost control of its own sense of legitimacy, and therefore uses a temporary coalition majority to impose limits on its own democracy in order to create a facade of strength and determination.
Yossi Verter in left-of-centre, independent broadsheet Ha'aretz
From today, it is permissible in the State of Israel to boycott dairy farms, food chains... airlines that fly on the Sabbath, delicatessens that sell pork, Arabs who want to rent flats - only not the settlements. The Knesset disguised itself yesterday as the Yesha settler council and approved the Boycott Banning Law, another law from a long list of undemocratic, racist and anti-Arab laws that have become the symbol of the 18th Knesset and Netanyahu's government.
But, but, it's the Arabs who are the racists!From today, it is permissible in the State of Israel to boycott ...Arabs who want to rent flats
That would be great and all if it was historically true. Jews were not free to leave, yes right at the very beginning they were but even before the start of WWII this stopped.Dilbert_X wrote:
Nope, they wanted them out of Germany and Europe, they were free to leave if they could prove they had somewhere to go and wouldn't be coming back.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
They wanted rid of the Jews from the whole world. This presented them with the problem of where to put them. Hence the Madagascar option. Finally it was decided the most efficient and simplistic way was the organized gassing.
That plan didn't work, so they found a different solution, it really is that simple.
Which is the essence of what makes the holocaust so bad. If it had been 5 jews instead of 6 million then the world would be a very different place.Dilbert_X wrote:
Its entirely comparable, the only real difference is the rate.
Because they know they wouldn't get away with it, hence they pick them off one by one, and progressively squeeze their landholdings.Israel have the capability to kill all of the Palestinians in less time than it takes the UN to write a stern letter. Yet they choose not to, why?
Different birth rates, jews leaving Israel, which is why they are so desperate to have Israel declared a 'Jewish State' so they can then boot out all the Palestinians.Why is the Arab population of Israel increasing quicker than the Jewish population? How does that support your genocide claims?
They wouldnt get away with it? What would happen? Say for argument Israel commits genocide and wipes out all of the local arabs. What happens next? The UN get pissed perhaps but it doesnt change the fact that all the arabs are gone and Israel has "got its way"Dilbert_X wrote:
Because they know they wouldn't get away with it, hence they pick them off one by one, and progressively squeeze their landholdings.Israel have the capability to kill all of the Palestinians in less time than it takes the UN to write a stern letter. Yet they choose not to, why?
So the great plan to remove the arabs is failing because they have a higher birth rate (despite their awful ghettos) than the Jews? How do the jews expect to colonise anywhere if they dont have any kids? Im having difficulty understanding how you even think that can be true?Different birth rates, jews leaving Israel, which is why they are so desperate to have Israel declared a 'Jewish State' so they can then boot out all the Palestinians.Why is the Arab population of Israel increasing quicker than the Jewish population? How does that support your genocide claims?
One difference I guess is that the Zionists formulated their plan to seize Palestine before Hitler was even borne.
Probably even America would stop looking the other way and cut them loose. Without their one ally in the world they'd be finished.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
[They wouldnt get away with it? What would happen? Say for argument Israel commits genocide and wipes out all of the local arabs. What happens next? The UN get pissed perhaps but it doesnt change the fact that all the arabs are gone and Israel has "got its way"
Thats exactly their problem, which is why they:-So the great plan to remove the arabs is failing because they have a higher birth rate (despite their awful ghettos) than the Jews? How do the jews expect to colonise anywhere if they dont have any kids? Im having difficulty understanding how you even think that can be true?
Read up on the 6 day war and tell me why exactly they would be screwed?Dilbert_X wrote:
Probably even America would stop looking the other way and cut them loose. Without their one ally in the world they'd be finished.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
[They wouldnt get away with it? What would happen? Say for argument Israel commits genocide and wipes out all of the local arabs. What happens next? The UN get pissed perhaps but it doesnt change the fact that all the arabs are gone and Israel has "got its way"
Facing an oil embargo and hostile neighbours in every direction they'd be screwed.
Why dont they declare Israel a jewish state then?Thats exactly their problem, which is why they:-
- Want Israel t be declared a state for jews only - the problem goes away if they can simply boot out non-jews.
- Offer financial incentives to foreign jews to migrate to Israel. The US pays $40m a year solely to subsidise migration to Israel for example.
- Exempt the high-breeders, orthodox jews, from any social obligation, taxes, work, serving in the military etc.
The strategy is failing, the reason Gaza was abandoned was they couldn't dominate or out-breed the Gazans, they're becoming steadily more desperate -> dangerous times ahead.
Yeah, I can't see that happening.Dilbert_X wrote:
Probably even America would stop looking the other way and cut them loose. Without their one ally in the world they'd be finished.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
[They wouldnt get away with it? What would happen? Say for argument Israel commits genocide and wipes out all of the local arabs. What happens next? The UN get pissed perhaps but it doesnt change the fact that all the arabs are gone and Israel has "got its way"
Facing an oil embargo and hostile neighbours in every direction they'd be screwed.
The only reason they survived the six day war was US re-supply. A protracted oil and arms ambargo and they'd be screwed.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
Read up on the 6 day war and tell me why exactly they would be screwed?
Because then they'd be seen to be as racist as the Nazis, they want the Palestinians and other neighbouring states to recognise Israel as a jews-only state first.Why dont they declare Israel a jewish state then?
There were too many Palestinians there who couldn't be displaced, if Israel had appropriated the area they would have to have been given voting rights in Israel.Gaza was abandoned because they lost a sex race? Where do you make this up?
"Jewish character" versus "democracy". "Demographically defendable lines" you get the picture. They want to maintain their apartheid state by whatever means available.In an historic and pivotal speech before the Knesset in May 2003, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon shocked his nation by announcing that Israel would withdraw from the Gaza Strip and large parts of the West Bank to demographically defendable lines in light of forecasts that Israeli Jews would soon lose their majority west of the Jordan River.
This was a striking turnabout for Sharon, who had established his reputation as a security hawk, and was widely considered to be the father of Israel's settlement movement. After decades of backing the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the former general was convinced that Israeli control in the disputed territories would soon force Israel to choose between its Jewish character and its vibrant democracy.
Moderate but persistent net aliyah (new Jewish immigration minus emigration plus returning Israelis) at current levels of 20,000 per year are sufficient to keep Israel's Jewish majority steady until 2025, when the current Jewish baby boomers begin to have children. The bottom-line shows Jews holding a strong demographic advantage today in Israel and the West Bank, exclusive of the Gaza Strip.
Hence the abandonment of Gaza and the stranglehold on the West Bank.Israel's strong Jewish majority should be considered an historic 120-year achievement of modern Zionism, and not an advantage to be traded away.
Only one scenario exists by which Jews can lose their strong position: open Arab migration into the West Bank. Israel must not allow a situation whereby West Bank Arabs link up politically with Arab populations beyond the Jordan River. In this scenario, Israel could face a renewed demographic challenge.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-07-16 20:25:25)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14168618Recent protests in Israel highlight the differences between the country's religious and secular Jewish communities.
Hundreds of right-wing Jews have taken part in demonstrations outside Israel's Supreme Court over the brief detention of two prominent rabbis in the last few weeks.
There were clashes with police on horseback on the nearby Jerusalem streets and several arrests were made.
Rabbis Dov Lior and Yacob Yousef had endorsed a highly controversial book, the King's Torah - written by two lesser-known settler rabbis. It justifies killing non-Jews, including those not involved in violence, under certain circumstances.
The fifth chapter, entitled "Murder of non-Jews in a time of war" has been widely quoted in the Israeli media. The summary states that "you can kill those who are not supporting or encouraging murder in order to save the lives of Jews".
At one point it suggests that babies can justifiably be killed if it is clear they will grow up to pose a threat.
Israeli police investigating allegations of incitement had asked the rabbis to be voluntarily questioned, but took them into custody when they refused.
Both men have strong support among ideological Jewish settlers in the occupied West Bank, but the wider religious community also took up their cause.
The heated reaction to their arrests has highlighted tensions between religious and civil authority in Israel and sparked a debate over freedom of expression.
