Pages: 1

 

2006-05-23 23:02:16
drepamig
Member
+3|7129|Escanaba, MI
The subject of whether or not removing the ability to switch into a squad and spawn on the leader while dead is a hotly contested one. A few friends and I would always cycle the squad when one of us died in order to stay together - not so much because we felt we were "exploiting" anything, but because it's simply more fun that way. It was also incredibly useful on the completely unbalanced maps such as Wake since with a decent squad, you could keep moving and still keep a foothold.

Now with this new change, it tries to promote the SL to want to stay alive, which is all fine and dandy, but what incentive does (s)he have? If you do your job and stay back and stay alive and just issue orders, request supplies and artillery, and coordinate squad movements, what have you accomplished? Sure the team has an effective squad, but the leader, on the leader board, looks like he's sucking it up. If he's doing his job perfectly, he has no kills, no deaths, and no points of any flavor. Why would you want to do that?

I think they should institute a scoring system for squads, just like the commander has, where the leader gets the average of the squad plus whatever else (s)he personally does. Then, if you sit back, and your squad totally rules the round, then you are rewarded for it. As it stands now, everyone else in your squad could have 100+ points, but if you're doing your job, then you have 0.

Does anyone else even half-assed agree with this? I've mentioned it a couple of times and never even gotten the slightest response.

Last edited by drepamig (2006-05-23 23:12:34)

2006-05-23 23:09:03
Erwin_Rommel188
Member
+59|7166|Seattle
Not a bad idea.  At the very least, the SL should get some points for what the squad does.
2006-05-23 23:09:36
David_Lynch
Member
+2|7035
This would be a great addition to the system.  If EA wants to promote teamplay, then there should be incentives.
2006-05-23 23:37:33
beerface702
Member
+65|7174|las vegas
Awesome Idea

i say forward this directly to EA


squad hopping is abused, we all know it. But this man has a good idea...and its reasonable in 3.2 or whatever is next
2006-05-23 23:41:47
Longbow
Member
+163|7127|Odessa, Ukraine
Stupid , stupid change in 1.30... what about 2 friends for example ? It was very easy to stay together and provide flag capture against 4-6 enemys that didn't worked as team .. and what will it be now ? Not only squad hoppers changed leadership in squad

Btw , nice idea , but EA won't listen to us... they think that they done all this game need , on their opinion

Last edited by Longbow (2006-05-23 23:43:37)

2006-05-23 23:49:32
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7171|Tampa Bay Florida
SL should get 2 or more points for every flag that his squad captures (maybe after he ordered them to attack?) and should also get 1 or 2 points for every 4 or 6 squad members spawning on him.  great ideas on your part too.
2006-05-24 00:03:35
voltage
Member
+46|7321|Sweden
The SL should definately get something for his work, but I haven't yet seen any simple and good solutions.

The idea of SL getting average of the squad mates score is an ok solution, but not perfect. A difference between SL and commander is that the SL can kick members out of the squad. There will be squad-stacking, SLs filling up their squad with good players and kicking the unproductive members. It would also encourage small squads since the average is easier to keep high that way. Neither does it encourage the squad to work for a common goal, the can fly around in jets and choppers and spread out all over the map with little concern of what their squadmates is doing.

Perhaps it's possible to implement a version of the defended flag score function, where scores would be given for kills in the vicinity of the order position. At least it would encourage giving orders and sticking together.
2006-05-24 00:10:01
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7171|Tampa Bay Florida

voltage wrote:

The SL should definately get something for his work, but I haven't yet seen any simple and good solutions.

The idea of SL getting average of the squad mates score is an ok solution, but not perfect. A difference between SL and commander is that the SL can kick members out of the squad. There will be squad-stacking, SLs filling up their squad with good players and kicking the unproductive members. It would also encourage small squads since the average is easier to keep high that way. Neither does it encourage the squad to work for a common goal, the can fly around in jets and choppers and spread out all over the map with little concern of what their squadmates is doing.

Perhaps it's possible to implement a version of the defended flag score function, where scores would be given for kills in the vicinity of the order position. At least it would encourage giving orders and sticking together.
I think that's the way it should work, don't you?  I don't see anything wrong with kicking unproductive players...
2006-05-24 00:20:08
voltage
Member
+46|7321|Sweden
Well, they would be kicked for being unproductive scorewise, not because of their teamwork performance. I don't want squads to be a simple tool for getting more score.

Last edited by voltage (2006-05-24 00:20:33)

2006-05-24 00:23:30
ResDog1
Member
+51|7246|Netherlands
I do agree I have to get used to the way they implemented SL ship, but I do not nessicerily agree to the idea it is bad. Rotation is still possible, but in after 1.3 the insane waves of people coming from nowhere is something from the past. Post 1.3 you will have to plan your approach to a flag more than before. No more rushing in, but instead moving from strongpoint to strongpoint. I agree this is something to get used to, but I do not think it is bad.

I noticed they upped the AA again... it was very easy to shoot down planes... Also something to get used to if you are an airjockey... No more plane raping, but hit and run tactics, because if you linger in the hotzone you are toast for sure. Not necciserily bad... (unless you got your points by airwhoring).

It think there will be a small learning curve for all of us. But instead of complaining how bad it is, perhaps we could accept the game as it is... No need for EA to keep nerfing it that way.
2006-05-24 00:43:36
Souljah
Member
+42|7148

ResDog1 wrote:

I do agree I have to get used to the way they implemented SL ship, but I do not nessicerily agree to the idea it is bad. Rotation is still possible, but in after 1.3 the insane waves of people coming from nowhere is something from the past. Post 1.3 you will have to plan your approach to a flag more than before. No more rushing in, but instead moving from strongpoint to strongpoint. I agree this is something to get used to, but I do not think it is bad.

I noticed they upped the AA again... it was very easy to shoot down planes... Also something to get used to if you are an airjockey... No more plane raping, but hit and run tactics, because if you linger in the hotzone you are toast for sure. Not necciserily bad... (unless you got your points by airwhoring).

It think there will be a small learning curve for all of us. But instead of complaining how bad it is, perhaps we could accept the game as it is... No need for EA to keep nerfing it that way.
wait i havent tested this out yet but you said rotation is still possible? meaning if im a SL and i die and i leave the squad but join the same squad again i can spawn on the new SL?
2006-05-24 00:52:37
name1ess
Member
+8|7230|Newcastle, Aus.
all i am going to say is that the system that have now is absolute BS, worst thing they have ever done and completely ruins the game. i have played wake and Dalian Plant a few times today, soo many of the games the US never even left the carrier, some times ppl would make it to shore, but since no1 wanted to join the squad, suicide then spawn, no flags where ever capped. same with Sharqi, usually if the US are down to 1 flag some1 can usually break free and lost of ppl will spawn and they start capping again. now, this dosnt happen.

imo the change was a crappy idea and i hope EA comes to their sences and listens to the 10 000 ppl who signed the petition and changes it bak cause the game is ruined.
2006-05-24 00:57:13
E7IX3R
is drunk and crazy
+216|7169|UK
Last night I was in a squad with 3 people from Nazgul on Karkand, our squad leader got gold, 25+ kills and only 3 deaths.

This was on foot, no armour or anything.
2006-05-24 00:58:40
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7155|Canberra, AUS
But how would you do that? Its near impossible to work out and program such a system. And you can still rotate squad leader, by the way - it merely takes a bit longer to rejoin!
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-05-24 00:58:53
voltage
Member
+46|7321|Sweden
The patch is King Midas, turning every thread into a squadhopping discussion.
2006-05-24 01:58:28
1927
The oldest chav in the world
+2,423|7154|Cardiff, Capital of Wales
Fannytastic idea about points as SL
2006-05-24 04:09:15
EvilMonkeySlayer
Member
+82|7133
Good idea, EA/DICE should implement this.
2006-05-24 04:30:11
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7322|Cologne, Germany

Spark wrote:

But how would you do that? Its near impossible to work out and program such a system. And you can still rotate squad leader, by the way - it merely takes a bit longer to rejoin!
you can still rotate and rejoin, but the whole purpose of that before 1.3 was to keep the squad going and keep your mobile spawn point. Now if you leave the squad and rejoin to make someone else SL, you'll have to first spawn someplace else ( and die again ) before you can spawn on your SL again.
That's not much fun if your squad was about to cap a flag or is operating very removed from any SP.

To be an effective spawn point, your SL will now have to stay back from the action, and maybe play sniper or support and provide cover fire, but he can't be in the mix upfront.
And although I agree that this kind of makes sense from a teamplay point of view, I just can't see people playing like that on public ranked servers, because that playing style won't get you any points.

You'd get a sniper kill here and there or a supply point, but that would be it.

EA was able to create a system to give the commander points on the basis of average team score.
I wouldn't consider it totally impossible to invent such a system for SL's, giving them points on the basis of their squad's score.
If you are going to change one of the core gameplay mechanics like that, you should at least provide people with some incentive to play SL...
2006-05-24 04:40:29
WinstontheWolf
Member
+11|7171
Yes, nice idea.. You should send it to EA!

But instead of the commanderscore-thing, they should make it so that the SL gets all the points that the team gets while capping flags, if there is two or more players (included yourself) capping flag (incentive to stay together). Like if you were the SL and had 5 other guys on your team, and every one of them , included yourself, caps a flag, then you'd get:
2 (neutralize pt) + 2 (cap pt) + 1 * 5 (5 neutr assists) + 1 * 5 (5 cap assists) = 14 pts.

Wouldn't that be awesome? Then, as someone above me noted, the problem with the squad just being made to get points and being split all over the map, would be solved.. Also, the SL could focus on staying alive and keeping the squad in command, instead of having to concentrate on capping the flag himself..
2006-05-24 08:31:46
drepamig
Member
+3|7129|Escanaba, MI

voltage wrote:

The SL should definately get something for his work, but I haven't yet seen any simple and good solutions.

The idea of SL getting average of the squad mates score is an ok solution, but not perfect. A difference between SL and commander is that the SL can kick members out of the squad. There will be squad-stacking, SLs filling up their squad with good players and kicking the unproductive members. It would also encourage small squads since the average is easier to keep high that way. Neither does it encourage the squad to work for a common goal, the can fly around in jets and choppers and spread out all over the map with little concern of what their squadmates is doing.

Perhaps it's possible to implement a version of the defended flag score function, where scores would be given for kills in the vicinity of the order position. At least it would encourage giving orders and sticking together.
Ya know, I never thought about that, as obvious of a problem as it is. I do really like the idea that the SL could get the team points gained by his squad. Maybe then have it so if most of the squad is capping a flag, then the SL gets the points, thereby motivating the leader to keep the squad together. There probably should then also be some sort of time limit where if you saw a flag being capped, you couldn't just kick the people that aren't near it so you can get the points. I'm not entirely sure how that would work though

I'm glad most of you are in consensus that something more needs to be done.
2006-05-24 09:20:50
Tarthkin
Member
+-1|7243
Great idea!

have you seen the way they've changed squad spawning in 2142?  Now the squad leader places a spawn beacon on the ground that all squad leaders can spawn on, including the squad leader alowing him to engage in battle along with his squad.  Too bad they didnt think of this for BF2, would have been nice
2006-05-24 09:48:35
cheshiremoe
Evil Geniuses for a sparsely populated tomorrow
+50|7190
I bet if you added team points for the squad leader you would see more fighting over who gets to be SL and more asking players to be in there your squad even if they are already in another squad. 

what about SL getting a team point for every few people that spawn on him.
2006-05-24 09:50:11
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|7105|Birmingham, UK
I totally agree, here. Here is a link to my thread about a similar topic!

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pid=380395#p380395
2006-05-24 09:50:38
CrazeD
Member
+368|7154|Maine

Tarthkin wrote:

Great idea!

have you seen the way they've changed squad spawning in 2142?  Now the squad leader places a spawn beacon on the ground that all squad leaders can spawn on, including the squad leader alowing him to engage in battle along with his squad.  Too bad they didnt think of this for BF2, would have been nice
I guess that's another reason I won't be playing 2142.

 

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