It seems Turnbull is that guy in the middle that everyone seems to like.
noice 
Joe Hockey makes impassioned speech about his immigrant roots.
Sarah Hanson-Young cries in Parliament over the plight of poor refugees.
Stephen Jones states that after seeing footage of the latest boat wreck he just has to take action.
"Hey it's holidays guys!"
"Woo! Holidays!"
*everyone goes surfing*
Sarah Hanson-Young cries in Parliament over the plight of poor refugees.
Stephen Jones states that after seeing footage of the latest boat wreck he just has to take action.
"Hey it's holidays guys!"
"Woo! Holidays!"
*everyone goes surfing*
[Blinking eyes thing]
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He seems OK, but he became a slave to the machine.KuSTaV wrote:
It seems Turnbull is that guy in the middle that everyone seems to like.
I'm waiting for Hockey to say something intelligent, the rest might as well be monkeys for all the sense they talk.
Fuck Israel
I realise this has been posted before but this just perfectly sums up Australian politics for me at the moment.
he's had to fight pretty hard inside his own party to change their nbn policy tbh. the news today is pretty revealingKuSTaV wrote:
It seems Turnbull is that guy in the middle that everyone seems to like.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/fe … 6408324421One well-placed Liberal source told The Australian that Abbott would rather see Labor continue to bleed politically with ongoing boat arrivals. If that means deaths at sea continue, he said, so be it.
Doesn't surprise me at all, though I doubt anything will come of this. I've before bemoaned at shit's inability to stick to Abbott, this will be no different. Firstly because this is little more than hearsay but secondly because this attitude reflects the opinion of many Australians who feel that if asylum seeker boats sink and they all drown then Australia doesn't have to deal with them and hey, it was their fault for being there in the first place.Jaekus wrote:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/fe … 6408324421One well-placed Liberal source told The Australian that Abbott would rather see Labor continue to bleed politically with ongoing boat arrivals. If that means deaths at sea continue, he said, so be it.
I'm not going to dismantle the Nauru Solution. I think offshore processing is stupid and it paints Australia as a redneck nation with little concern for human rights but hey, it might work in making the figures look good. But the Coalition doesn't give a fuck. Sure they'll reintroduce it when they cartwheel into power but in the short term they don't want to risk the possibility that the Government will work in their Malaysia solution; something as equally short-sighted and stupid as Nauru and probably just as face-savingly effective in the short term too.
You'll probably never see me say this ever again but I actually agree with Clive Palmer on this. He's thinking like a businessman intent on ruining the competition that is people smuggling. I've heard it recommended before actually but the difficulty is that it's a solution to the problem of people smugglers and people taking risky journeys by sea, it isn't a solution to "the asylum seeker problem". As a policy it runs the risk of being an 'opening the flood gates' type deal which is ridiculous. If the flood gates open more than they currently are it will still mean that Australia is taking in less than the average number of asylum seekers. No-one in Parliament seems willing to accept this but Australia doesn't have an asylum seeker problem. People get tied up in knots with the Census figures showing above average population growth with I think it was 54% of this coming from immigrants. But why do they think that this is from boat people? Boat people are a tiny fraction of the immigrants who come to Australia, the only reason people think they're such a big deal is because every single boat that arrives is reported hungrily by the media with accurate counts of how many people there are on board. You think they'd do the same for plane arrivals?Spark wrote:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-30/let-asylum-seekers-fly-to-australia-palmer/4102422
strange, strange man
If the main concern here is keeping these people safe and preventing people smuggling which is what Sarah Hanson-Young and Joe Hockey and the rest of them were crying about last week then why not provide/allow planes or ferries to make sure these people can arrive safe to be processed? Tony's not alone in not actually giving a shit about the safety of asylum seekers, they just want the image problem to go away and they wan't the easiest possible solution that doesn't involve any risk to themselves.
The truth is that no-one in power has the balls to argue for it or point out hat Australia's asylum seeker "problem" is less of an issue that Julia Gillard's earlobes. The only reason someone like Clive can is because he's an eccentric billionaire twat who can make grandiose statements without having to actually stake his reputation on it.
[Blinking eyes thing]
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meanwhile, whyalla has disappeared
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Pft, no-one cares about SA.
[Blinking eyes thing]
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Or New Zealand.
Whats happened to Whyalla?
Whats happened to Whyalla?
Fuck Israel
Is it not?Ty wrote:
it was their fault for being there in the first place.
Drunkface you don't nor have you ever lived in a place like Afghanistan or in a place where you and your family are threatened with death daily simply because those in power don't like the look of you. None of us here on this site have any idea what it's like to be forced from your country so none of us know the lengths we would go to to secure a better life. To say it is their fault for being on an asylum seeker boat suggests they had a choice in the matter which for many of them isn't even close to being the case. Do you think it is their fault that they have to flee their countries?
And for those saying "they should just wait in dank disease-infested refugee camps until the UN gets around to placing them" - did you know that the average stay in a refugee camp is 17 years?
(I'm quoting UN Development Programme Administrator Helen Clark there, I don't know how accurate that is.)
And for those saying "they should just wait in dank disease-infested refugee camps until the UN gets around to placing them" - did you know that the average stay in a refugee camp is 17 years?
(I'm quoting UN Development Programme Administrator Helen Clark there, I don't know how accurate that is.)
[Blinking eyes thing]
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Thats the way the world is. What should Australia, and New Zealand, do exactly?Ty wrote:
Drunkface you don't nor have you ever lived in a place like Afghanistan or in a place where you and your family are threatened with death daily simply because those in power don't like the look of you.
Half the Afghans? Take in a few million Kosovans? A few million Tibetans? All the Iraqi Sunni = 10 million?
Then we can start on Africa - should we take the Hutus or the Tutsi? They seem about equally to blame for their problems but we'd have to pick one only or we'd look silly.
The Chinese Uighurs seem to be somewhat oppressed, we should take all 9 million of them.
When China invades Taiwan are we going to take all 23 million of them too?
The UN refugee process has never been anything more than a fig leaf to hide how shit the world is. Its impractical and wildly abused.
Fuck Israel
Is there any reason I should respond logically to this? You look like an idiot writing something like this man and it's insulting to both of us. For one it suggests that Australia and New Zealand are the only countries taking in refugees. We're not. In fact we're so far down the list that other UN nations are clucking their tongues at us. I'm not saying that we should take more I'm just trying to give some sense of objectivity.Dilbert_X wrote:
Thats the way the world is. What should Australia, and New Zealand, do exactly?Ty wrote:
Drunkface you don't nor have you ever lived in a place like Afghanistan or in a place where you and your family are threatened with death daily simply because those in power don't like the look of you.
Half the Afghans? Take in a few million Kosovans? A few million Tibetans? All the Iraqi Sunni = 10 million?
Then we can start on Africa - should we take the Hutus or the Tutsi? They seem about equally to blame for their problems but we'd have to pick one only or we'd look silly.
The Chinese Uighurs seem to be somewhat oppressed, we should take all 9 million of them.
When China invades Taiwan are we going to take all 23 million of them too?
Secondly, I suggest you learn about the problem of human displacement and what it actually is. Try talking to a few refugees, see how many of them wanted to leave their country of origin. When my Mum was a teacher the janitor at the school was a Serbian refugee. In Kosovo he was a judge. You seriously think that people want to leave their countries at the first sign of trouble because they think they'll get a better deal elsewhere? When I say forced I mean forced.
And you're fucking mental if you think to suggest that a country having refugees means that every inhabitant of a country is going to get up and leave the place abandoned. Don't present me with a bloody stupid hyperbolic argument like that - for your own sake if not for mine.
Anyway this is turning into global politics. How about that carbon tax eh? Anyone noticed any difference yet.
(I haven't. Obviously.)
[Blinking eyes thing]
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Up to you really. Its no more logical than your position that anyone who feels unsafe should have a right to move to a new country.Ty wrote:
Is there any reason I should respond logically to this?
I work with plenty of Poles, Vietnamese, Chinese, Irish etc etc. Pretty well all of them, or their parents, migrated for a better life.
As far as Australia is concerned pretty well every applicant for asylum here has passed through multiple other countries on their way, but paid their passage, kept their documents and failed to apply for asylum in those other countries.
Indonesia and Malaysia, the two main jumping off points, aren't particularly oppressive regimes - compared with Taliban Afghanistan or Iran for example. Why make a dangerous, and expensive, boat trip to Australia?
There's a difference between dealing with boa fide refugees, which Australia does like other countries, and dealing with people who enter illegally, ditch their documents and try to game the system.
And I disagree, if the system operated as you suggest richer countries would be swamped by millions of migrants.
Fuck Israel
I quite plainly said that people are being forced from their own countries. Rights didn't come into it, necessities do.Dilbert_X wrote:
Up to you really. Its no more logical than your position that anyone who feels unsafe should have a right to move to a new country.Ty wrote:
Is there any reason I should respond logically to this?
Also, what makes you think people don't have the right to move to a new country if they so choose? You did. I could if I wanted to.
If you don't believe me then read Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: "Everyone has the right to seek and enjoy in other countries freedom from persecution." I don't make this stuff up man, other people have done that for me.
Yes Dilbert, migration is a thing. People migrate because they want a better/different life or lifestyle. Is this supposed to be significant?Dilbert_X wrote:
I work with plenty of Poles, Vietnamese, Chinese, Irish etc etc. Pretty well all of them, or their parents, migrated for a better life.
I don't know what you're struggling to understand here Dilbert. Yes asylum seekers come to Australia but they also go elsewhere. Well over 99% of them go elsewhere. Are you saying the fraction that come to Australia should also fuck off to anywhere else because they happen to pass through other countries before they reach Australia? Doesn't work like that.Dilbert_X wrote:
As far as Australia is concerned pretty well every applicant for asylum here has passed through multiple other countries on their way, but paid their passage, kept their documents and failed to apply for asylum in those other countries.
So basically you're saying that asylum seekers should settle anywhere but Australia. Makes sense, I mean they pretty much are already. Plus the Gillard Government plans to send them to Malaysia anyway. I'm sure other countries are just as fine with more asylum seekers as Australia is and are happy to take the extra asylum seekers that Australia doesn't think it should have to deal with.Dilbert_X wrote:
]Indonesia and Malaysia, the two main jumping off points, aren't particularly oppressive regimes - compared with Taliban Afghanistan or Iran for example. Why make a dangerous, and expensive, boat trip to Australia?
Just as I'm sure Australia would be very happy to take in extra asylum seekers because, say, Denmark, (which takes in roughly the same amount of asylum seekers as Australia despite having less than 25% of Australia's population,) decided it no longer wanted to accept asylum seekers. Because after all, Denmark is so far away from the countries refugees are escaping from and not their first port of call. There are plenty of countries that won't persecute them too much.
Australia is one of the most difficult countries in the world to get to. It is also relatively unknown, it's shares no common borders, and in the general scheme of things is not a first choice for asylum seekers. Why make the trip indeed. The truth is its because some people have few other options and thankfully for them Australia has obligations under the 1951 Refugee Convention and UN Declaration of Human Rights which it was good enough to sign, (unlike Malaysia and Indonesia.)
Before you say something like that you should read abut Australia's refugee and humanitarian policy which accounts for its 'onshore' asylum seekers as well as its offshore ones. You say they're gaming the system, you haven't convinced me that you know what the system is.Dilbert_X wrote:
There's a difference between dealing with bona fide refugees, which Australia does like other countries, and dealing with people who enter illegally, ditch their documents and try to game the system.
Because poverty doesn't exist in rich countries and all people everywhere continually seek to uproot themselves from their lives, families, and culture because a different country has a better GDP. Interesting world you're living in Dilbert.Dilbert_X wrote:
And I disagree, if the system operated as you suggest richer countries would be swamped by millions of migrants.
Anyway, this conversation is boring. Anyone see Simon Sheikh collapse on Q&A? Props to Greg Combet who got up to help him while Sophie Mirabella looked like she was recoiling in disgust.
[Blinking eyes thing]
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99.5% to be accurateTy wrote:
I don't know what you're struggling to understand here Dilbert. Yes asylum seekers come to Australia but they also go elsewhere. Well over 99% of them go elsewhere.
Many of them are gaming the system, I don't think thats in much doubt.Ty wrote:
Before you say something like that you should read abut Australia's refugee and humanitarian policy which accounts for its 'onshore' asylum seekers as well as its offshore ones. You say they're gaming the system, you haven't convinced me that you know what the system is.
Thats the problem with being a rich and democratic country which signs up to generous agreements - the unscrupulous will take advantage of it.
Fuck Israel
Spark wrote:
can we actually ban dilbert from this thread please
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Okay well we can at least agree on that then and leave the topic there. There are those who game the system whether you could call that number many or a few is beyond me. There are people who's act unscrupulously for their own gain in everything though.Dilbert_X wrote:
Many of them are gaming the system, I don't think thats in much doubt.Ty wrote:
Before you say something like that you should read abut Australia's refugee and humanitarian policy which accounts for its 'onshore' asylum seekers as well as its offshore ones. You say they're gaming the system, you haven't convinced me that you know what the system is.
Thats the problem with being a rich and democratic country which signs up to generous agreements - the unscrupulous will take advantage of it.
And being in a rich, generous and democratic country may mean that you're more open to that sort of behaviour, I couldn't say. Honestly I can live with it though. Better than living in a poor, tight-arsed oligarchy.
[Blinking eyes thing]
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Problem Solved
this post is aimed to be as ridiculous as dilbert
this post is aimed to be as ridiculous as dilbert
Last edited by tazz. (2012-07-03 03:33:15)
everything i write is a ramble and should not be taken seriously.... seriously. ♥
How to kill old people humanely is a serious issue.
Fuck Israel
10 pound pom bitching about immigration, i think he wants a white australia policy to keep this country ethnically cleanSpark wrote:
Spark wrote:
can we actually ban dilbert from this thread please
Not a 10 pound POMCybargs wrote:
10 pound pom bitching about immigration, i think he wants a white australia policy to keep this country ethnically cleanSpark wrote:
Spark wrote:
can we actually ban dilbert from this thread please
Not bitching about (legal) immigration
Not talking about ethnicity either - except wogs
Apart from that you're dead on.
Fuck Israel