dude they pull this stunt every other year. why is anybody surprised.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
lol. his dad wasn't 30 years old. you gave them shit then too. omg must all be about age.
nobody is surprised about NK's actions. i'm not talking about this latest round of showboating like it's anything different. i'm not even treating this latest 'escalation' as the topic, here. what i'm talking about is the way the western media routinely line up to ridicule NK. and the way posters like moab show up to spout the typical 'lol communism' line. it's stupid, imo. nobody in this discussion is taking the usual pageantry seriously, least of all me. what i am referring to instead is the habit of taking the piss out of NK. now i'm not saying a dictator should be praised or put on a poster... but it just seems a little short-sighted and self-satisfied to me. "lol let's all laugh at the country with a different political system, look at how bad they suck ahaha" without any understanding why the country is failing. 'cult of personality' my ass.
even their best friend china doesn't want to deal with them. NK is that retarded nephew taht always get into trouble in the neighborhood, and their family bails them out because "it's family."Uzique The Lesser wrote:
nobody is surprised about NK's actions. i'm not talking about this latest round of showboating like it's anything different. i'm not even treating this latest 'escalation' as the topic, here. what i'm talking about is the way the western media routinely line up to ridicule NK. and the way posters like moab show up to spout the typical 'lol communism' line. it's stupid, imo. nobody in this discussion is taking the usual pageantry seriously, least of all me. what i am referring to instead is the habit of taking the piss out of NK. now i'm not saying a dictator should be praised or put on a poster... but it just seems a little short-sighted and self-satisfied to me. "lol let's all laugh at the country with a different political system, look at how bad they suck ahaha" without any understanding why the country is failing. 'cult of personality' my ass.
Not the retarded nephew, more like a patient in a mental institution.
NK is not respected because it does not act rationally. In a psychological sense, not "Randian rationalism". Cuba, on the other hand, does.
NK is not respected because it does not act rationally. In a psychological sense, not "Randian rationalism". Cuba, on the other hand, does.
Last edited by Spearhead (2013-04-05 11:43:52)
at least cuba gave nukes back.Spearhead wrote:
Not the retarded nephew, more like a patient in a mental institution.
NK is not respected because it does not act rationally. In a psychological sense, not "Randian rationalism". Cuba, on the other hand, does.
shitty analogy. yeah maybe this time even china are dropping their support. but you've got to trace the lines of force that see china moving towards a more moderate and pro-western position, as well. NK is a 'rogue state', ofc, but it takes two to tango.Cybargs wrote:
even their best friend china doesn't want to deal with them. NK is that retarded nephew taht always get into trouble in the neighborhood, and their family bails them out because "it's family."Uzique The Lesser wrote:
nobody is surprised about NK's actions. i'm not talking about this latest round of showboating like it's anything different. i'm not even treating this latest 'escalation' as the topic, here. what i'm talking about is the way the western media routinely line up to ridicule NK. and the way posters like moab show up to spout the typical 'lol communism' line. it's stupid, imo. nobody in this discussion is taking the usual pageantry seriously, least of all me. what i am referring to instead is the habit of taking the piss out of NK. now i'm not saying a dictator should be praised or put on a poster... but it just seems a little short-sighted and self-satisfied to me. "lol let's all laugh at the country with a different political system, look at how bad they suck ahaha" without any understanding why the country is failing. 'cult of personality' my ass.
yeah cuba, so rational, letting russians build missile bases within realistic striking range of the US.Spearhead wrote:
Not the retarded nephew, more like a patient in a mental institution.
NK is not respected because it does not act rationally. In a psychological sense, not "Randian rationalism". Cuba, on the other hand, does.
Maybe because the US tried to invade them a couple of times? And the US putting nukes in Turkey didn't really help either.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
yeah cuba, so rational, letting russians build missile bases within realistic striking range of the US.Spearhead wrote:
Not the retarded nephew, more like a patient in a mental institution.
NK is not respected because it does not act rationally. In a psychological sense, not "Randian rationalism". Cuba, on the other hand, does.
it needed all the help it can get and the soviets wanted to counteract the us putting missles in turkey. if they didn't put those missiles the us would have brought back batista and all those white upper class cubans who were friendly with us.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
yeah cuba, so rational, letting russians build missile bases within realistic striking range of the US.Spearhead wrote:
Not the retarded nephew, more like a patient in a mental institution.
NK is not respected because it does not act rationally. In a psychological sense, not "Randian rationalism". Cuba, on the other hand, does.
If your super educated ass had a brain you'd know it was in direct reaction to 2 things :Uzique The Lesser wrote:
yeah cuba, so rational, letting russians build missile bases within realistic striking range of the US.Spearhead wrote:
Not the retarded nephew, more like a patient in a mental institution.
NK is not respected because it does not act rationally. In a psychological sense, not "Randian rationalism". Cuba, on the other hand, does.
1. Bay of Pigs
2. US missiles in Turkey
Cold War history 101. You get an F
at the time is was cuba's best option for not being invaded(again) but we were never closer to nuclear war than that moment.
Last edited by 13/f/taiwan (2013-04-05 11:57:59)
Cuba and North Korea are fairly well developed. Cuba is put in the high section for quality of life by the U.N. Last time NK was ranked in 97 they too were put in as high developed. FYI America and most other Western states are labeled as very high.
i am more than aware of cold war history. the point is that cuba acted irrationally. if you knew a thing about game theory you would know that irrational actions are one of the crucial aspects of the system. and my point is that cuba is no more 'rational' than NK. both are extremely calculated and have a lot of heads put together to try and get the best possible outcome. your portrayal of NK as petulant kids is pretty fucking asinine.Spearhead wrote:
If your super educated ass had a brain you'd know it was in direct reaction to 2 things :Uzique The Lesser wrote:
yeah cuba, so rational, letting russians build missile bases within realistic striking range of the US.Spearhead wrote:
Not the retarded nephew, more like a patient in a mental institution.
NK is not respected because it does not act rationally. In a psychological sense, not "Randian rationalism". Cuba, on the other hand, does.
1. Bay of Pigs
2. US missiles in Turkey
Cold War history 101. You get an F
Seeing as how Cuba was essentially a 51st state/American colony for the first half of the 20th century, yes it was their best option.
Cuba didn't act irrational. Putting nukes in the island was a lot smarter than hoping the USSR was willing to start ww3 over them.
no, the escalation of the missile crisis was completely irrational. but the actual game theory analysis of the situation was that it was their best hand to play. by escalating it and elevating things to a crisis point, gorbachev won huge political capital back at home and saved his beleaguered career. it was an irrational show of force even though only both parties could only actually lose (irrational). however, gorbachev managed to portray the whole thing favourably back at home. all was well. M.A.D. is textbook irrationality - but it was the basis of a whole lot of coldly rational game-theory. you have to kind of get over the binary thinking about it. it was rationality THROUGH ostensibly irrational behaviour, i.e. acting seemingly against their best interests/safety and antagonizing the situation was actually the best possible thing they could have done then.
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-04-05 12:11:12)
on the topic of the cold war, cuban missile crisis etc - I'd like to recommend the documentary 'The fog of war; 11 lessons from the life of Robert S. Mcnamara' to everyone. It was shown at one of my courses last year and it's probably one of the best documentaries I've ever seen and one of the few I now own on DVD. I believe you can watch all of it on youtube, here's a clip anyway;
inane little opines
anyone who posts in d&st without having watched all of errol morris's films is a fucking ingrate.
I have seen several but I didn't know this one till last year and it's probably my favorite.
inane little opines
oh yeah and i always mix up khrushchev and gorbachev's names, cause of the suffix. feel free to flame me for my pitiful understanding of game theory.
he's one of america's great documentary film-makers, in my opinion. kinda strikes me as the herzog of american film.Shocking wrote:
I have seen several but I didn't know this one till last year and it's probably my favorite.
Uzique The Lesser wrote:
anyone who posts in d&st without having watched all of errol morris's flynn's films is a fucking ingrate.
judging from some american posters' unwavering optimism and complete lack of cynicism, errol flynn movies is all they've ever been watching.
This whole debate was not on the intricacies of MAD and Cold War nuclear policy. It was over the fact that comparing Cuba to NK is apples and oranges. One is a mentally unstable guy out in the street with a shotgun and the other is the neighbor who just glares through the window.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
no, the escalation of the missile crisis was completely irrational. but the actual game theory analysis of the situation was that it was their best hand to play. by escalating it and elevating things to a crisis point, gorbachev won huge political capital back at home and saved his beleaguered career. it was an irrational show of force even though only both parties could only actually lose (irrational). however, gorbachev managed to portray the whole thing favourably back at home. all was well. M.A.D. is textbook irrationality - but it was the basis of a whole lot of coldly rational game-theory. you have to kind of get over the binary thinking about it. it was rationality THROUGH ostensibly irrational behaviour, i.e. acting seemingly against their best interests/safety and antagonizing the situation was actually the best possible thing they could have done then.
Last edited by Spearhead (2013-04-05 13:08:44)
i wasn't comparing their situations. i just said that 'acting irrationally' isn't new. you're making out NK to be this insane rogue state that does what the fuck it wants. it's all a carefully laid-out plan. you follow the media line of dismissing/denigrating them too much, and don't give the military men enough credit. they throw these tantrums every year to try and use leverage, or else to just stage a 'blinking match'. it's not actually a leadership going insane.