SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979

globefish23 wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I finished Fahrenheit 451 a few minutes ago and really disliked it. [...]
I fully completed 1984 and Brave New World, and didn't find those very good either. These are the big three dystopian novels and I have to say the genre either isn't for me or pretty lame. Fahrenheit 451 was the worst of the 3. The world did not seem very dystopian outside of the banning of books. The suggestion that books were banned because of political correctness rubbed me the wrong way too. The protagonist was pretty dull also.
I haven't read Brave New World yet, but I definitely liked Fahrenheit 451 much better than 1984.

1984 was heavily influenced by George Orwell's apparent disgust of Communism/Stalinism.
Everything in the book felt like a dirty, poor Eastern European or ex-GDR plattenbau.
Basically a stereotype of the worst stuff.

Fahrenheit 451 was a much more sci-fi story, sprinkled with more subtle dystopian dismay.
I like that Ray Bradbury nicely predicted wall-sized flatscreens, smartphones/tablets and autonomous robots.
The latter being a hunter-killer mechanical dog that kills with neurotoxin.

That, combined with fascist, Nazi-type bookburning and persecution, and the weird, contradictory "fire brigade", made a much more depressing dystopian scenario for me.
One that has become more valid over the past decades since the real year 1984.

Also, I accounted Guy Montag's dull appearance to the fascist group he is working with as his job, and to the dull, media-brainwashed society.
His wife watching mindless "interactive" TV soap-operas all day being sort of a foreshadowing of modern day "social media".

Note:
Do not watch François Truffaut's 1966 film adaptation of the book.
Neither before or afterwards, or it will truly disrupt any sci-fi or dystopian feeling you'll get, with some weird hippie acting and lame dialog.
Needless to say any of the sci-fi technologies from the book have been cut completely.

A proposed new adaptation by Frank Darabont has been in limbo for over a decade now.
I knew the context behind 1984. BNW, '84, and F451 all came out around the same time and obviously the authors each saw the world in a different way from us. But the world didn't turn out how they feared and isn't treading that way. So their pessimistic world view is a little melodramatic and I don't think the books are really relevant anymore. I tend to like books that focus more on personal experience and relationships so those books are off putting.

You might be right about the dullness. That would make sense.

I finished Breakfast of champions Friday. I mostly liked it fell apart the last 20% of the way once the author put himself in the story. Still am not crazy about Kurt's style and that didn't help.

I bought a few short novels of Harkumi Murakami after I finished his small short story collection. I finished After Dark yesterday. I really liked it and look forward to the other books.



What have you read lately, globe?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
globefish23
sophisticated slacker
+334|6584|Graz, Austria

SuperJail Warden wrote:

What have you read lately, globe?
I've been reading Jasper Fforde's "Thursday Next" and "Nursery Crime Division" series the past few years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper_Fforde#Bibliography
I'm on my 2nd readthrough of the former, as I started the first four books in the German translation, but then ran into the problem of having to wait for one or more years after the initial English release.
I already have the "Dragon Slayer" and "Shades of Grey" books waiting.

I can really recommend Thursday Next, if you like a crazy mix of sci-fi, anachronistic history and surreal fantasy.
It's like a mix of Douglas Adams and Lewis Carroll, sprinkled with tons of (anachronistic) pop culture allusions as well as references to - and even inclusions of - a broad array of (English) literature.
Inside and outside of literature that is. Literally.
The story is told from a first person perspective by the female protagonist Thursday Next. Except for the one book, where she's missing. One of her at least.

Nursery Crime is sort of a spin-off and early pre-cursor to the Thursday Next series.
It's a classic whodunnit detective story, set in an alternate reality, where nursery rhyme figures such as Humpty Dumpty or Goldilocks and the Bears are real. Complete with all the stereotypes for such a genre, but mixed with absurd fantasy.

Also, with Jasper Fforde's dramaturgy, you could easily use his books as the script of a TV series or series of movies, that would blow away stuff like Doctor Who or Lord Of The Rings without much effort.

In between I also read David Morrell's Rambo trilogy.
The first book, on which the movie was based on, is much darker and depressing and with a completely different ending.
They should really have tasked Morrell to help with the screenwriting, because then the movies could easily have turned into Oscar material, and not dull Murica action flicks that were so popular in the 1980s.

I also started Ray Bradbury's Martian Chronicles.
And I have Infinite Jest waiting.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6366|eXtreme to the maX
Reading 'The Martian' at present.
Its pretty crappy low-brow sci-fi, but here's the awesome part
- the hero is a mechanical engineer
- Ridley Scott is making the film, and Matt Damon is playing the engineer.

Never again shall I have to endure "so you, uh, fix washing machines then" when I tell people what I do, oh no, forever more it shall be "Holy fuck, you're an engineer? Like that guy in that film? Fuck man that's awesome"


https://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/987/fyeah.jpg

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2015-02-23 00:48:40)

Fuck Israel
globefish23
sophisticated slacker
+334|6584|Graz, Austria

Dilbert_X wrote:

Reading 'The Martian' at present.
Its pretty crappy low-brow sci-fi, but here's the awesome part
I read a bit about it, and it seems that it's very hard sci-fi, even harder than Interstellar, which I really liked.
On my Amazon wishlist now.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6366|eXtreme to the maX
Interstellar was one big plot hole, 'The Martian' is pretty good, a few glaring ones but a good attempt overall.
Fuck Israel
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979
Anyone here ever read the Koran?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,741|6997|Cinncinatti
no
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979
Okay, thank you.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6892|949

i've read a good portion of it.  I have a pretty good companion reader and supplemental reading about the teachings of Jesus Christ from the view of Muslims if you want to borrow them.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979
No, thanks. I bought the Oxford Classics Koran. I ordered it along with a Catholic bible as a result of watching Easter Sunday shows.

I was a little nervous about reading it. I am an atheist but was afraid I would find God in the Koran or something. After reading a bit of it, it doesn't live up to the hype.

I don't think you are a liar but I am certain you read part of it because you didn't claim to read the whole thing. It is really boring especially compared to the bible. I know it was dictated directly by Mohammad while the new testament was written after Jesus and edited for 2000 years but I still expected it to be more interesting than it was because of how "beautifully written" people say it is. I am sure Arabic and Muslim societies get a lot of useful idioms from the Koran like westerners get from the bible though finding them in the Koran is probably less fun because of how didactic it is. You can open up a portion of the bible and get an interesting story, a religious lesson, and find a source of a phrase all at once. In the Koran, you would be lucky to get a story you already heard in the bible retold by Muhammad with his own opinion mixed in.


The only good thing I got from the book is a better appreciation for Sharia law. Islamic Religious law sounds really silly until you read the Koran and realize that a lot of laws can be extrapolated from it due to the way it is formatted and was written.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,741|6997|Cinncinatti
a catholic bible
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,741|6997|Cinncinatti
I forgot it was any different. Used the New Oxford Annotated Bible at uni
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979
The one I have is the New American Bible

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_American_Bible

It is the one they use at mass.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,741|6997|Cinncinatti
You'd think after 12 years of using that Bible in school I'd remember it.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
uziq
Member
+497|3712
the king james bible has the best poetic sense/verse. it's enjoyable to read on a purely aesthetic level.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979

uziq wrote:

the king james bible has the best poetic sense/verse. it's enjoyable to read on a purely aesthetic level.
Yes. From what I have read and compared to KJV, the NAB is much more literal. Under the Vatican 2 reforms, the church tried to be more inclusive. So making a bible that is easy to understand is important especially for Americans.

Ecclesiastes 3 is a good example

King James Version wrote:

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
Compare it to

New American Bible wrote:

There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven—
      2A time to give birth and a time to die;
            A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.

      3A time to kill and a time to heal;
            A time to tear down and a time to build up.

      4A time to weep and a time to laugh;
            A time to mourn and a time to dance.

      5A time to throw stones and a time to gather stones;
            A time to embrace and a time to shun embracing.

      6A time to search and a time to give up as lost;
            A time to keep and a time to throw away.

      7A time to tear apart and a time to sew together;
            A time to be silent and a time to speak.

      8A time to love and a time to hate;
            A time for war and a time for peace.
I was surprised when I came across the Song of Songs section. They never told us about that part in Sunday school. Then again, Sunday school was just babysitting for 99% of the people. I really hated it. Double so because the kids bullied me there.

Anyway there isn't anything like that in the Koran. I think when people convert to Islam in the west, it has more to do with their personal friendships and relationships than it has to do with the theological power (???) of Islam.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6892|949

Koran is to be read in Arabic, of course the translation diminishes the poetic value
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979
Well, the bible I'm reading isn't in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek and is still holding up.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6892|949

but you weren't criticizing the bible, you were criticizing the Koran...do you like a variety of fruit?  You don't strike me as an apples to apples guy
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7035|Moscow, Russia
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+497|3712

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Koran is to be read in Arabic, of course the translation diminishes the poetic value
it really depends. of course the koran is much more tightly controlled, and arabic has a theological hegemony that ancient greek (and latterly latin vulgate) no longer enjoy, in the (post-protestant) west. people were burned in england for trying to bring the bible out of its original 'poetic' and 'high' register. maybe the koran will get there one day, too. the KJV really is an object of artistic beauty. plus, it doesn't come at the price of having to spend 4 years at divinity college learning to read ancient greek, or something. although latin itself is still worth learning for all the ancients and classical greats. tacitus and virgil more so than any religious text. (i wish i could with fluency and ease).

Last edited by uziq (2015-04-23 14:16:32)

Steve-0
Karma limited. Contact Admin to Be Promoted.
+215|4220|SL,UT

uziq wrote:

the KJV really is an object of artistic beauty.
with a quote like that, we'll be seeing ATG again. he showed me a copy that was highlighted, giving the local polygamists free reign to rip off the government, marry next of kin, and explain those troubling pieces of skin that connected just below finger and toe nails. personally my favourite verse was John 11:35. it could have started and ended there.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6366|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

it's enjoyable to read on a purely aesthetic level.
The pages are soft and creamy sure, but what else is there?
Fuck Israel
uziq
Member
+497|3712

Steve-0 wrote:

uziq wrote:

the KJV really is an object of artistic beauty.
with a quote like that, we'll be seeing ATG again. he showed me a copy that was highlighted, giving the local polygamists free reign to rip off the government, marry next of kin, and explain those troubling pieces of skin that connected just below finger and toe nails. personally my favourite verse was John 11:35. it could have started and ended there.
american polygamists are into the KJV? really?

dilbert, the verse and writing are really good, on a basic technical level. you don't have to go in for the heavy Christian belief system if you don't want to. or do you only find it possible to read or appreciate things consonant with your own individual worldview? that sounds like a mild emotional disability, to me. the KJV sings. great artistic and creative minds have met to produce it. just like 'paradise lost' is a great poem, even if you're not an almighty miser like Milton. the KJV provides lots of good ethical wisdom, put across beautifully. you don't have to be a pious believer to draw benefits from it. lots of jesus's basic teachings, sermon on the mount etc., come across as excellent western civil standards, on a basic interpersonal level, regardless of the theological apparatus it supports.

the form of atheism that declares everything with a spiritual aspect or religious connection bogus really is dumber than the theism it ridicules. the sort of atheist who thinks he knows the sum and value of it all – sees through the 'illusions'. "why would anyone want to read an old musty bible when we have cold logic and rationality? it's a collection of manias!" yes you are so smart. what a sophisticated position. I bet you hang out on the LessWrong forums, lording it over all creation.

Last edited by uziq (2015-04-24 08:19:51)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+643|3979

Steve-0 wrote:

uziq wrote:

the KJV really is an object of artistic beauty.
with a quote like that, we'll be seeing ATG again. he showed me a copy that was highlighted, giving the local polygamists free reign to rip off the government, marry next of kin, and explain those troubling pieces of skin that connected just below finger and toe nails. personally my favourite verse was John 11:35. it could have started and ended there.
Don't you mean Austin 3:16?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ee/a7/18/eea7182e39e080a7c6fb63d4d2581c5d.jpg

On a serious note, my favorite is Job 23:8
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg

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