BF2S Forums Presidential Election 2016

SuperJail Warden wrote:

uziq wrote:

no you're right. the far right instead are proposing a much more peaceful and sane period. spoken like a true white man.

It is funny how many poor whites have fucked themselves over though. The GOP is going to cut a ton of social programs in order to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy. That's going to hurt middle America pretty bad. They really have no idea how bad their economic situation is going to get soon.

Most people don't want welfare, they want jobs.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

It is funny how many poor whites have fucked themselves over though. The GOP is going to cut a ton of social programs in order to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy. That's going to hurt middle America pretty bad. They really have no idea how bad their economic situation is going to get soon.

Most people don't want welfare, they want jobs.

The jobs aren't coming back. Congressional GOP doesn't care. At least democrats had a plan to build solar panels and wind turbines. The republicans are going to cut taxes and hope for the best as they have since Reagan.

Solar panels and wind turbines don't put more than a few people to work.

You know what does? Gutting stuff like occupational licensure laws and the permit processes that small businesses have to deal with. We can all agree that free trade is good, right? It's done a helluva lot to lift billions out of poverty. But while we see the benefits at the macro level, we engage in mass microprotectionism at the state and local level. Your own state just voted to make pool cleaning a protected job with a state issued license necessary to do the work. Pool cleaning!

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

The jobs aren't coming back. Congressional GOP doesn't care. At least democrats had a plan to build solar panels and wind turbines. The republicans are going to cut taxes and hope for the best as they have since Reagan.

Solar panels and wind turbines don't put more than a few people to work.

You know what does? Gutting stuff like occupational licensure laws and the permit processes that small businesses have to deal with. We can all agree that free trade is good, right? It's done a helluva lot to lift billions out of poverty. But while we see the benefits at the macro level, we engage in mass microprotectionism at the state and local level. Your own state just voted to make pool cleaning a protected job with a state issued license necessary to do the work. Pool cleaning!

Interesting idea regarding occupational licenses. Not sure what that has to do with congressional republicans and 30 years of republican tax policy like my post was about though.

Point was job creation can't be top-down. Command economies do not work. You must unshackle the people at the bottom and let them do their thing. It's a very difficult concept for control freak progressives to wrap their heads around and it's why blue states are atrocious to start a business in. Banking on democrats to create jobs is completely laughable. Republicans aren't much better, but saying electing Clinton would be better for these people is dumb.

Last edited by Jay (2016-11-15 05:35:42)

Cybargs wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

Solar panels and wind turbines don't put more than a few people to work.

You know what does? Gutting stuff like occupational licensure laws and the permit processes that small businesses have to deal with. We can all agree that free trade is good, right? It's done a helluva lot to lift billions out of poverty. But while we see the benefits at the macro level, we engage in mass microprotectionism at the state and local level. Your own state just voted to make pool cleaning a protected job with a state issued license necessary to do the work. Pool cleaning!

Interesting idea regarding occupational licenses. Not sure what that has to do with congressional republicans and 30 years of republican tax policy like my post was about though.

And you think that clinton wouldn't do the same is laughable. V suspicious why all the hedge funds and large investment banks seem to donate millions of dollars towards her campaign.

She was also endorsed by every major union except police too.

You are an idiot if you think a democrat president and congress would start to rip up the social safety net once in power. Last time democrats were in power we got the affordable care act and massive expansion of healthcare benefits.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I may be a little too dramatic regarding the affordable care act. I can see Republicans making some tweaks to it and then convincing Republicans governors to go along with the Medicaid expansion that was part of the original bill. Then they will call it TrumpCare and declare victory.

People will fall for it too but at least a lot more people get covered under medicaid.

They need to do away with subsidies and empower the insurance companies to push back hard on the drug and care costs. Right now all they do is partial denial and the hospitals pass on the rest of the absurd bill to the patient. Every time my wife goes to the doctor for a checkup we get hit with $50-$150 bills because our insurance did a partial denial. Whatever is not covered should be eaten by the doctors. I guarantee the cost of everything would drop like a rock.

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I may be a little too dramatic regarding the affordable care act. I can see Republicans making some tweaks to it and then convincing Republicans governors to go along with the Medicaid expansion that was part of the original bill. Then they will call it TrumpCare and declare victory.

People will fall for it too but at least a lot more people get covered under medicaid.

They need to do away with subsidies and empower the insurance companies to push back hard on the drug and care costs. Right now all they do is partial denial and the hospitals pass on the rest of the absurd bill to the patient. Every time my wife goes to the doctor for a checkup we get hit with $50-$150 bills because our insurance did a partial denial. Whatever is not covered should be eaten by the doctors. I guarantee the cost of everything would drop like a rock.

Empower the insurance companies hahahaha.

Yes, have the government negotiate rates as a single buyer. 

What benefit does an insurance company have on pushing back costs?  Higher costs benefit them.  What you are advocating isn't empowering insurance companies, it's punishing doctors.

Single payer system would eliminate much of the administrative costs you mention as having impact to the cost of care.

-Doctors in the US earn more than doctors outside of the US for doing the same thing.

-Suppliers charge more in the US than other countries for similar things

-Non-generic drugs cost more in the US than other countries.

-People choose more expensive treatment for the same maladies in the US than other countries.

All these are from a PBS article I heard about on NPR yesterday.  I recommend reading it.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/why … id-cutler/

Your non-profit aside in there is just...nonsensical

Cybargs wrote:

uziq wrote:

no you're right. the far right instead are proposing a much more peaceful and sane period. spoken like a true white man.

at least the far right isn't straight bashing people and setting their own cities on fire when their candidate loss (talking about mccain and romney elections).

You'll notice how those electoral maps show that cities aren't the usual hotbed of Republican activity. It's almost as though there aren't as many of them in cities and thus it would be harder to organize. Regardless, this isn't the LA Riots. No city is in danger of burning to the ground.

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Single payer system would eliminate much of the administrative costs you mention as having impact to the cost of care.

-Doctors in the US earn more than doctors outside of the US for doing the same thing.

-Suppliers charge more in the US than other countries for similar things

-Non-generic drugs cost more in the US than other countries.

-People choose more expensive treatment for the same maladies in the US than other countries.

All these are from a PBS article I heard about on NPR yesterday.  I recommend reading it.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/why … id-cutler/

Your non-profit aside in there is just...nonsensical

Is it really? With a for-profit company there is constant pressure from stockholders to become more efficient and turn a higher profit. A non-profit in the same industry will reap the same revenue but dump it back into the business instead of returning it to shareholders. That money goes into expansion, whether in services or administration or new buildings.

It's the same reason college costs keep rising. They're not going to cut pricing, because people equate expense with quality, so they instead hire their 7th director of diversity or replace a non-obsolete building.

Non-profits at scale are godawful mimics of government waste and bloat.

Have you ever worked for a large corporation?  It doesn't seem like it, because based on what you wrote here, you don't seem to think the same type of waste and bloat that occurs in government (and apparently non-profits, lol) exists in corporations.

I've worked with and for fortune 100 companies.  It exists.  Bloat and waste isn't magical fairy dust that doesn't exist in the private sector.  You're positing emotional, unprovable claims based on your own worldview.  I'm posting actual facts.

Non-profits don't encourage lower pricing...but magically, private companies do? You admitted private companies exist to make a profit - please let me know how that gels with encouraging lower prices.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Single payer system would eliminate much of the administrative costs you mention as having impact to the cost of care.

-Doctors in the US earn more than doctors outside of the US for doing the same thing.

-Suppliers charge more in the US than other countries for similar things

-Non-generic drugs cost more in the US than other countries.

-People choose more expensive treatment for the same maladies in the US than other countries.

All these are from a PBS article I heard about on NPR yesterday.  I recommend reading it.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/why … id-cutler/

Your non-profit aside in there is just...nonsensical

Is it really? With a for-profit company there is constant pressure from stockholders to become more efficient and turn a higher profit. A non-profit in the same industry will reap the same revenue but dump it back into the business instead of returning it to shareholders. That money goes into expansion, whether in services or administration or new buildings.

It's the same reason college costs keep rising. They're not going to cut pricing, because people equate expense with quality, so they instead hire their 7th director of diversity or replace a non-obsolete building.

Non-profits at scale are godawful mimics of government waste and bloat.

Have you ever worked for a large corporation?  It doesn't seem like it, because based on what you wrote here, you don't seem to think the same type of waste and bloat that occurs in government (and apparently non-profits, lol) exists in corporations.

I've worked with and for fortune 100 companies.  It exists.  Bloat and waste isn't magical fairy dust that doesn't exist in the private sector.  You're positing emotional, unprovable claims based on your own worldview.  I'm posting actual facts.

Non-profits don't encourage lower pricing...but magically, private companies do? You admitted private companies exist to make a profit - please let me know how that gels with encouraging lower prices.

I never said that private companies encourage lower pricing. Competition does. I'm also well aware that large corporations have plenty of bloat as well.

Among leftists, corporate profits are shamed, but the idealistic non-profit is held up as a paradigm of virtue and altruism. The solutions to Obamacare's lack of competition is always a publically funded non-profit which will eschew profits and return value to the customers. This was a major part of the initial launch of obamacare and almost all immediately failed, remember? For-profit colleges are hounded out of existence while non-profit colleges are put on a pedestal.

If there was some setup where non-profits returned excess profits back to the consumers rather than reinvestment, it would be great, but that's like asking a government to return excess tax dollars to the people.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/t … les-231490

fucking lol

electing billionaire reality tv star leads to crony capitalism in breaking news shocker