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Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

no, because those drugs are harmful and have lots of terrible physiological effects. acid and mushrooms don't.

So if you're the big expert on neuro-chemistry how did you end up tripping out?

Twice?

you really are pathetic. you've been going on about a comparison of caffeine and lsd for three pages, insisting on it. i just gave you a long list of the nasty aspects of caffeine, all exacerbated by the fact it's lethal dose ratio is much smaller (yes it matters in those 'uncontrolled' every day scenarios you talk about; people overdose and have physical complications from drinking too much coffee or red bull, that will never happen with taking too much LSD) and by the fact it interacts with the dependency and habit-forming dopaminergic parts of the brain. in comparison i linked several studies saying flat out that LSD is physiologically harmless, neutral, leaves the liver and kidneys rapidly with no problem, etc.

then you start going on about something i did 8 years ago as a university student involving ... a drug similar to caffeine. is this really how you argue? 'if i was such an expert on neurochemistry?' hey moron, i was doing a lot of a drug that was habit forming and fucking with my dopamine and seratonin. a drug that acts in the same way as caffeine does, albeit in a stronger way. i'm here arguing that lsd is less harmful than caffeine. hello?!?!? your pathetic dive into ad hominem attacks is just tacitly proving my exact point. jesus fucking christ.

meanwhile you talk about 'day to day' harms of lsd use (as if people will take it more than a handful of times on their whole life; one trip lasts about 6-8 hours and it has been completely metabolised before the mental effects even wear off...) and start going on about people jumping out of windows (an infamous urban myth, whilst studies state that out of 10,000+ sample groups the only adverse mental reactions with lasting health effects was the same % as those who have mental health emergencies from ANY other form of psychotherapy).

just admit you lost. it might be a valuable skill to learn now you're thinking about finally leaving your mother's nest at 50 and meeting women. i can happily admit i made a mistake with my cavalier attitude to cathinones and now respect everyday addictive drugs like caffeine much more as a result.

Last edited by uziq (2017-03-09 22:41:53)

please learn to read.

alcohol is toxic and puts strain on your liver; it metabolises into harmful waste products. it is more harmful than LSD, which has no toxicity or physiological damage whatsoever. nobody loses brain cells when they take LSD. continual LSD users will never suffer cirrhosis.

that's been my argument all along. a very fucking simple statement of fact about its toxicity and harm.

the risks with LSD, statistically minimal as they are, are all associated with the bad trips and triggering ongoing psychoses. as a study with a sample of 10,000+ people showed, the statistical occurrence of this was no more than in any other psychological study dealing with mentally ill people.

Last edited by uziq (2017-03-10 04:30:42)

vial.

Oops

Late night inebriated posting. 

A vial of vile bile.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2017-03-11 02:36:24)

Drug addicts are annoying. How hard is it to just stop doing  drugs and get a job?

uziq wrote:

Finray wrote:

uziq wrote:

sure dilbert, i'm using a definition 'no-one' else uses.

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/file … l-harm.png

i just found two charts/studies in 20 seconds using that research tool, google images, that also make a distinction between cocaine and crack cocaine.

it's almost as if it's well-studied that they have very different highs and create very different types of addicts.

derp derp derp derp

that chart says ketamine is not as bad as cannabis

I took ket once and thought I'd died
and I've just finished a joint and am pretty chill

???

much enjoyable debate uzi/dilb

perhaps all that weed has made you even more dumb than your average scot, i.e. deplorably stupid.

drug harm is not the same thing as 'how it makes you feel man'.

people can experience complete ego death on LSD or DMT. doesn't mean they are 'bad'. in fact caffeine is (much) worse for your health in terms of actual measurable harm.

the chart linked in that last post includes lots of qualitative and statistics-inferred stuff, too.

Yeah, it was more a tongue-in-cheek post but I don't think I read the chart properly the first time round anyway.
Having read the past 3 pages I think I know your answer to this but would you not count the effects of a bad trip?
For me I had a pretty heavy existential crisis, the whole world felt a bit weird to me afterwards, I felt like an alien. Hard to describe. It put a different filter on the world and I think it changed me a bit as a person, for better or worse I've yet to decide. I kinda wanna dive back in some day to have another peek at the other side but for now I still get shivvers thinking about it.

Ket is some shit guys, be prepared. Not like any other drug.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Yes its very hard to OD on marijuana.

It's actually impossible unless you're smoking concentrates, even then you'd run out of money before killing yourself.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Drug addicts are annoying. How hard is it to just stop doing  drugs and get a job?

lol

i don't really class ketamine as a psychedelic and wouldn't recommend it to anyone as a recreational drug. it's a dissociative. i don't enjoy feeling like my mind and body are separated. it doesn't give me any personal or emotional insights and the physical high or euphoria is gross, kind of like being incredibly drunk to the point of senselessness.

with that said, heavy doses of ketamine are being considered as a more effective neurochemical cure for depression – as we understand it as a seratonin-related condition – than taking SSRIs everyday and clogging up your synapses (and the negative side effects and harms of SSRIs are legion).

in terms of 'would i class a bad trip as harmful', no i wouldn't. harm to me mostly denotes toxicity or physical danger and damage to a person. many people in depression treatment using magic mushrooms report that it is a very emotionally challenging experience; but a high proportion of the same people say it is worthwhile. in terms of cures and approaching psychological issues, they are very promising drugs. and being made uncomfortable or fearful is not 'harm' in any medical sense. getting a tooth extracted is a painful and unpleasant experience, but you wouldn't call it harmful would you?  psychedelic trip can go straight to the root of a serious emotional problem or personal crisis and alleviate a lot of that pain and anxiety. that's why they are trialling it with people facing terminal cancer.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I am serious. No one has ever put a gun to my head and said "shoot heroin". I am a mentally ill person and have avoided becoming a drug addict. What excuse does a normal person have?

Drug addicts have a hugely disproportionate amount of mentally ill people under its umbrella. It's quite hard to find a sane drug addict, but they do exist. For those people I'd say it's more likely to be a case of socio-economic issues, perhaps their father was a drunk so they turned to drugs to deal with it. Maybe they've become homeless and are looking for something to knock them out at night.

Being sane doesn't make it any easier. Addiction is some serious shit, and can take out even those seeming the most strong.

uziq wrote:

i don't really class ketamine as a psychedelic and wouldn't recommend it to anyone as a recreational drug. it's a dissociative. i don't enjoy feeling like my mind and body are separated. it doesn't give me any personal or emotional insights and the physical high or euphoria is gross, kind of like being incredibly drunk to the point of senselessness.

with that said, heavy doses of ketamine are being considered as a more effective neurochemical cure for depression – as we understand it as a seratonin-related condition – than taking SSRIs everyday and clogging up your synapses (and the negative side effects and harms of SSRIs are legion).

in terms of 'would i class a bad trip as harmful', no i wouldn't. harm to me mostly denotes toxicity or physical danger and damage to a person. many people in depression treatment using magic mushrooms report that it is a very emotionally challenging experience; but a high proportion of the same people say it is worthwhile. in terms of cures and approaching psychological issues, they are very promising drugs. and being made uncomfortable or fearful is not 'harm' in any medical sense. getting a tooth extracted is a painful and unpleasant experience, but you wouldn't call it harmful would you?  psychedelic trip can go straight to the root of a serious emotional problem or personal crisis and alleviate a lot of that pain and anxiety. that's why they are trialling it with people facing terminal cancer.

Idk. I felt like had I been a weaker minded person that could have had some lasting psychological effects on me, PTSD or some shit. Wouldn't recommend it to just anyone, but holy shit is it effective if you just wanna blast off to another reality.

With the heavy doses are they completely knocking folk out? Or do they still get the trip? Because I imagine if you gave this to just some random old wifey who's never smoked a cigarette she'd actually go insane. But then again this is probably being run by doctors who know a lot more than me.

SSRIs are just gross. I just felt completely hollowed out and emotionless.

Mushrooms are by far my favourite drug, they are just so nice, cozy, comfortable and fun. Very natural feeling, and the best anti-depressant I've ever taken. It was on mushrooms that I got a huge confidence break through regarding my appearance, whereas with LSD it's what you'd expect from a man-made knock off: higher intensity and more defined effects, resulting in me just getting completely lost in the visuals most of the time.

regardless of what you personally get out of mushrooms or acid, they are absolutely harmless substances for 99.99% of people. i certainly wouldn't recommend a psychedelic to someone with serious mental health issues or a family history of schizophrenia. but for everyone else, they are amazing drugs of self-discovery and exploration.

my favourite thing about mushrooms is precisely how clean they are. you can trip for 6 hours and they fade away and you just feel sober again. that's unique out of all drugs i've tried. everything else leaves you with a deficit or feeling strung out (including caffeine...) and i have personally felt huge boosts to my wellbeing and contentedness after taking them, a firmer sense of 'self' and being at ease with that self.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

There are plenty of people in the world with bad life circumstances that don't become drug addicts. Drug addicts should be given help but I don't want to hear any of them say "addiction is an illness". It is not an illness. It is a choice.

*facepalm*

lol he was?

none of us here are without sin..