BF2S Forums Religions of the world Thread

i'm sure you have a tight grip of the situation in the states. islam in europe is basically a fucking rorschach test in the american media: extract whatever statistics and meaning you want!

the response doesn't demarcate along protestant/catholic religious lines, anyway. france's republican political ideology is secular and tolerant, despite it being a catholic country. poland's politics are hard-right and proto-fascist. also catholic. it's their respective geographical locations w/r/t 'Other' neighbours and routes of ingress for immigrants. and of course their economic strengths and labour markets. all those poor southern states have high youth unemployment and don't like ex-colonised people from the mahgreb takin' their jerbz or claiming off their already shit state.

i'd be interested to know just what you're alluding to in this case. i thought your favourite dog whistle example in the states was the scandinavian models and their islam/immigrant debates.

the scandinavian model is working a whole lot better than the crumbling, corrupt, yoked to superstition and peasant modes of thinking forms of government in the south of europe.

thanks for the lowdown. i had no idea scandinavians were afraid of other cultures and immigration. also good to know the norwegian and swedish welfare states are being bankrupted by immigrants. it’s not like north sea oil doesn’t pay a 15 thousand euro dividend to citizens or anything. i am learning a lot.

Convert to... what, exactly? Generic "not Middle Eastern Muslim"? The non-practicing Christianity of English-speaking countries?

DesertFox- wrote:

Convert to... what, exactly? Generic "not Middle Eastern Muslim"? The non-practicing Christianity of English-speaking countries?

conversion is a totally pointless concept in these debates. the most vociferous anti-immigration people are seldom actually practicing believers (it's not exactly christian to not love thy neighbour). acculturation and integration are the more germane buzzwords.

Religion is culture! Western culture is fundamentally intertwined with Christianity. So getting out of the Muslim way of thinking and into a Christian one will go a long way to making them a productive part of European civilization.

uziq wrote:

norway has a sovereign wealth fund worth over $1 trillion dollars. the national pension fund amounts to about $250,000 per citizen. but apparently the ~35,000 refugees of war and conflict in the middle-east are 'bankrupting the welfare state'. jay really knows what he is talking about. he has a vaguely european surname. his great-grandfather brought over a dog whistle from the old country.

Norway is not Denmark or Sweden. And 250k ain't much.

uziq wrote:

you truly are a moron. norway literally have $1 trillion in oil money owned by the state, enough to pay a quarter of a million dollars to every single citizen from their state pension (not to mention their own pension schemes). meanwhile states like new jersey face either tax increases or spending cuts to justify < $30k dollars per citizen. so immigration is 'bankrupting the welfare states' of scandinavia? great perspective.

and please tell me more about denmark and sweden. bearing in mind all of these countries are extremely culturally homogenous and have historically taken very few immigrants. could it be perhaps that the refugees aren't causing a giant crisis in public funds?!?

Norway has the highest cost of living in the world. How far do you really think 250k goes? That's like half a house.

Do we still live in the 21st century, or have we hit a strange wormhole in the ol' galactic trail?

New York witches aim hex at Supreme Court's Brett Kavanaugh despite death threats

uziq wrote:

thanks for the lowdown. i had no idea scandinavians were afraid of other cultures and immigration. also good to know the norwegian and swedish welfare states are being bankrupted by immigrants. it’s not like north sea oil doesn’t pay a 15 thousand euro dividend to citizens or anything. i am learning a lot.

Its a corrosive influence, the average person sees people who have no stake in the society they have entered being given all the benefits of it and still being anti-social and seeking to overthrow it.
The average person wonders why they work and pay taxes and fills with resentment, and so we have Brexit for example.

However the average person you so despise did indeed vote for Brexit, various European countries are heading the same way.
And we know that refugees and immigrants play by entirely different rules, so don't pull that one.

Someone I know asked the question - if multiculturalism is so wonderful why do the regions which experience it invariably become more racist, xenophobic and nationalist?

And I ask the question every time - if refugees want to escape a toxic culture why do they bring it with them?

Dilbert_X wrote:

However the average person you so despise did indeed vote for Brexit, various European countries are heading the same way.
And we know that refugees and immigrants play by entirely different rules, so don't pull that one.

Someone I know asked the question - if multiculturalism is so wonderful why do the regions which experience it invariably become more racist, xenophobic and nationalist?

And I ask the question every time - if refugees want to escape a toxic culture why do they bring it with them?

do refugees bring a toxic culture with them? what do you think refugees are fleeing, exactly? islam? they are fleeing war zones and sectarian violence. do you really think it's the fault and responsibility of every refugee to solve sunni–shia factionalism, or the actions of their dictators and militaries? i wonder if you'd burden a christian refugee, say someone from a war-scarred central african state, with the same expectations.

multiculturalism didn't create more racism and nationalism. the economic downturn did. fascism and nationalism always come off the back of financial crashes, not liberal multiculturalist experiments. look at the peak of the austro-hungarian empire, or weimar germany. the historical precedents are there. they were tolerant, open and highly successful societies until their economies got wiped out. then the right moves in to capitalise on workers' (perceived) griefs. it's a depressing pattern.

and nice try, but 'multiculturalism' did not cause brexit. most little englanders are anti-EU in the sense that they are anti-brussels. or anti-polish cheap labour. that's white, christian europe (or more properly the totally areligious globalism's fault). lol. keep projecting your personal bugbears onto every global issue, though. it's quaint. what a shame that the bulk of 'multicultural' britain came from the colonies, from india and pakistan, from the west indies and the caribbean, and don't fit into your neat little narrative about 'the average man voicing his ire at multiculturalism via brexit'.

Last edited by uziq (2018-10-22 05:24:28)

i live here. i watch the news every day. it's the conversation on everyone's lips in work, in the pub. you know more why the average british person voted for brexit, i presume, sat over there with your islamophobia? when's the last time you lived in the UK again, in the 1980s? multiculturalism's hey-day was during the peak of new labour/blair's era. where was the mass discontent against europe then, pre-2008? multiculturalism must have really been firing people up!

Last edited by uziq (2018-10-22 05:26:52)