Pages: 1 … 180 181 182 183 184 … 372

 

2019-10-28 08:17:12
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5629|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

Larssen wrote:


Please do tell how the US created AQ.

If you want to reference the soviet war in Afghanistan, you'd be wrong in several ways.

Curious to hear it.
He believes the first gulf war was an act of aggression by the US.
There probably is a better term than "act of aggression" for that blunder of a war. Christians on the other side of the Earth had no business getting in the middle of a dispute between the Sunni Arabs. And the Saudis do deserve the hatred of Islamist for inviting us into their region and problems.
We have a habit of riding to the rescue when one country invades another.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2019-10-28 08:28:30
uziq
Member
+498|3723
you have a habit of doing it when it stands to benefit you. you also have a habit of helping one country invade another ... when it benefits you. even going to far as to sell arms and give green-lights to genocidal regimes in places like indonesia. you would have to be a simpleton to think america enters into wars on behalf of some noble cause.
2019-10-28 10:20:40
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5629|London, England

uziq wrote:

you have a habit of doing it when it stands to benefit you. you also have a habit of helping one country invade another ... when it benefits you. even going to far as to sell arms and give green-lights to genocidal regimes in places like indonesia. you would have to be a simpleton to think america enters into wars on behalf of some noble cause.
You're welcome.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2019-10-28 10:30:47
uziq
Member
+498|3723
who could you sincerely say that to? the iraqis?

you should be saying thanks to them. from their misery you managed to get a bottom tier education. only took a few hundred thousand dead !
2019-10-28 10:51:16
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5629|London, England

uziq wrote:

who could you sincerely say that to? the iraqis?

you should be saying thanks to them. from their misery you managed to get a bottom tier education. only took a few hundred thousand dead !
To you. You're welcome for us coming to your aid in two world wars and Korea. You're welcome for us trying to contain the messes that the UK and France made of the world during their colonial expansion and retreat. Your country has done more to fuck up this world than probably any other. France is a close second.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2019-10-28 10:54:55
uziq
Member
+498|3723


you had to 'save the world' from two world wars for which germany and the axis were the aggressors ... but britain and france, your democratic allies, did more than anything to ruin the world? that's a pretty fuckin HOT TAKE, son! how many history electives did you have to sit in at Lugnut College?

jay 'copy and pasted stock wisdom quotations from french liberal theorists' galt. your thoughts, musings etc etc

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-28 11:02:23)

2019-10-28 11:37:58
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+644|3990
GB and France did colonize most of the world and created a bunch of artificial countries all over the Middle East and Africa. Germany had its way with Eastern Europe but the Soviets had blame there probably more.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2019-10-28 11:48:38
uziq
Member
+498|3723
yeah it is britain’s fault for the two gulf wars and afghanistan. and not at all america’s own political devising. the british empire man!!!
2019-10-28 12:13:45
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5629|London, England

uziq wrote:

yeah it is britain’s fault for the two gulf wars and afghanistan. and not at all america’s own political devising. the british empire man!!!
Yes.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2019-10-28 12:26:49
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+644|3990

uziq wrote:

yeah it is britain’s fault for the two gulf wars and afghanistan. and not at all america’s own political devising. the british empire man!!!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Iraq

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Afghan_War

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Ir … '%C3%A9tat

And your country helped us invade Iraq and Afghanistan anyway.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2019-10-28 12:55:43
uziq
Member
+498|3723
confusing sense of causality that sees the US’s changing relation with saddam hussein as being the fault of the anglo-afghan war. very curious stuff.

the characterisation of the middle-east's many conflicts as 'someone else's mess, thousands of miles away', is pure trumpian fluff.

US foreign policy, geopolitical ambitions, and trade are much more responsible for the gulf war(s) and afghanistan than the british empire. you meddled in the area because you had strategic and economic interests of your own, not because 'britain made such a mess of it'. if that was the reason for your involvement, where were you on suez? you know, the actual biggest post-colonial issue in the region?

but i guess the cold war is old europe's fault, too, by that reasoning. and, in fact, it's france fault that democracy, so bloody and terrible, was born at all.

are you going to blame our founding of palestine next for the last 50 years of US–Israel relations? that's not how history, or historical agency, works. 'britain you founded it!' does not absolve responsibility for a century of US policy-making.

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-28 13:03:18)

2019-10-28 13:02:32
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,054|7042|PNW

I think it would be wrong to discount the long term effects colonialism and nation building in foreign lands had on some parts of the world. But it would also be wrong to use that to deny American fumbling.
2019-10-28 13:04:02
uziq
Member
+498|3723
to say that britain is culpable for america's follies in the gulf wars and afghanistan is an ahistorical pisswad, fired from the back of that toolshed-cum-classroom that jay sits in.

saddam was very much 'your man', until he didn't play ball and used the financial/military backing of the west to do something else. don't blame a creaky old empire's map dividing 100 years prior for your foreign policy mis-steps. there isn't a direct line of causation from the mandate of iraq to the invasion of kuwait.

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-28 13:07:10)

2019-10-28 13:15:25
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5629|London, England

uziq wrote:

to say that britain is culpable for america's follies in the gulf wars and afghanistan is an ahistorical pisswad, fired from the back of that toolshed-cum-classroom that jay sits in.

saddam was very much 'your man', until he didn't play ball and used the financial/military backing of the west to do something else. don't blame a creaky old empire's map dividing 100 years prior for your foreign policy mis-steps. there isn't a direct line of causation from the mandate of iraq to the invasion of kuwait.
Saddam was 'our man' because of the Iran hostage crisis. The Iran hostage crisis occured because the Brits had strong oil interests in Iran and propped up the Shah for decades in the face of all corruption and civil unrest. The enemy of my enemy is my friend fully applied here.

Our oil interests were in Saudi Arabia because Chevron controlled the oil fields.

Britain and France created the geopolitical situation after the fall of the Ottoman Empire and then left a power void after their own empires collapsed. The US stepped in to maintain the status quo that the former empires could not. Instability is bad for business.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2019-10-28 13:17:05
uziq
Member
+498|3723
yes, linking to a 19th century war in afghanistan and a coup that was fucking devised and coordinated by the US in joint-interests with the UK is not exactly the best justification for 'the US has always had to dive into the middle-east to save your mess'. seems a lot like you were self-interested and made your own messes, thank you very much.
2019-10-28 13:19:44
uziq
Member
+498|3723

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

to say that britain is culpable for america's follies in the gulf wars and afghanistan is an ahistorical pisswad, fired from the back of that toolshed-cum-classroom that jay sits in.

saddam was very much 'your man', until he didn't play ball and used the financial/military backing of the west to do something else. don't blame a creaky old empire's map dividing 100 years prior for your foreign policy mis-steps. there isn't a direct line of causation from the mandate of iraq to the invasion of kuwait.
Saddam was 'our man' because of the Iran hostage crisis. The Iran hostage crisis occured because the Brits had strong oil interests in Iran and propped up the Shah for decades in the face of all corruption and civil unrest. The enemy of my enemy is my friend fully applied here.

Our oil interests were in Saudi Arabia because Chevron controlled the oil fields.

Britain and France created the geopolitical situation after the fall of the Ottoman Empire and then left a power void after their own empires collapsed. The US stepped in to maintain the status quo that the former empires could not. Instability is bad for business.
the shah was propped up by america. laughable historical understanding. the shah even wanted cancer treatment and asylum in america. the CIA were highly involved in the running of his regime. the iranian revolution was explicitly anti-American and the hostage crisis wasn't some displaced anti-brit sentiment. what a garbage reading.

This propitious start to the relationship, which positioned Washington more favorably than the imperial machinations of Britain and Russia, is all but forgotten today, thanks to the U.S. role in ousting Iran’s nationalist prime minister in 1953 and the subsequent embrace of Shah Mohammad Reza by successive American administrations. The coup was a momentous turning point for Iran; coinciding with a broader imperative around American engagement in the Middle East, the CIA’s role in preserving the monarchy meant that for the first time, Washington assumed a real stake in Iran’s fate. The generous American program of technical and financial assistance that followed the shah’s reinstatement enabled him to impose greater central control and reassemble the instruments of the state under his personal authority. Over time, it would become painfully clear that the costs of the coup in stoking paranoia, enabling repression, and undermining the Pahlavis’ legitimacy vastly outweighed its short-term benefits, but at the time the preoccupation with the Cold War obscured Iranian resentment fueled by the American intervention.
https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/1979 … d-america/

your 'oil interests' with the arabs were kind of being fucked by a thing called the arab oil embargo in that period, jay. you know, that thing that crippled US economies and created runaway fuel prices? OAPEC? the shah was the only one willing to break that embargo and continue selling to the (much bigger) US market. great job mate.

and right. now it's our handling of the ottoman empire's fall that led to the iraqi insurgency and you getting a pell grant.

incredible that you had delusions of being a history professor.

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-28 13:31:10)

2019-10-28 13:32:56
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5629|London, England
Not that it is at all relevant, but I joined the military almost exactly a year before 9/11 when Clinton was still president. 9/13/00 to be exact.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2019-10-28 13:34:50
uziq
Member
+498|3723
i bet it was a real shock to you when you realised you'd have to actually do something for all that welfare money and the free college ticket.

explains your anti-British resentment over the korean war. another conflict staffed by young recruits who never expected to be called to war.

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-28 13:35:36)

2019-10-28 13:48:34
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5629|London, England

uziq wrote:

i bet it was a real shock to you when you realised you'd have to actually do something for all that welfare money and the free college ticket.

explains your anti-British resentment over the korean war. another conflict staffed by young recruits who never expected to be called to war.
No, not really. I was pumped to go to Afghanistan after the towers came down. I didn't believe in the Iraq war and had no desire to fight there. Can't pick your wars.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2019-10-28 13:54:19
uziq
Member
+498|3723

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

i bet it was a real shock to you when you realised you'd have to actually do something for all that welfare money and the free college ticket.

explains your anti-British resentment over the korean war. another conflict staffed by young recruits who never expected to be called to war.
No, not really. I was pumped to go to Afghanistan after the towers came down.
you're welcome.
– a brit, who started it with the afghans
2019-10-28 15:29:33
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6376|eXtreme to the maX

Jay Gatsby wrote:

I was pumped to go to Afghanistan old sport.
Nah, this is a history you've invented for yourself, something you tell your sons when you want to see stars in their eyes and potential employers when you want that next job. You were scared to the core and sick to your stomach when you realised you'd made a horrible mistake and were going to actually risk your neck for those free lunches and that college course - when you could have, you know just taken out a loan.

Its hard to argue with someone who gets his history from neo-con shock-jocks and revisionist propaganda puff-pieces written by 'trained singers'.
Its part of the infantilism of the right wing, everything is someone elses fault - usually the British. 'It wasn't me sir, I didn't do it sir, it was an older boy sir, can I have a cookie now?'

I suppose the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour was the fault of the British, wait, I have it, the opium wars so weakened China and disrupted the balance that Japan became dominant and decided to attack America for no reason - nothing to do with belligerent expansionism by the US in the region and threats against Japan - it was the British a century before!

So who was America nobly riding to the rescue of in that one? The people of Bikini Atoll?
Fuck Israel
2019-10-29 02:21:37
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5629|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay Gatsby wrote:

I was pumped to go to Afghanistan old sport.
Nah, this is a history you've invented for yourself, something you tell your sons when you want to see stars in their eyes and potential employers when you want that next job. You were scared to the core and sick to your stomach when you realised you'd made a horrible mistake and were going to actually risk your neck for those free lunches and that college course - when you could have, you know just taken out a loan.

Its hard to argue with someone who gets his history from neo-con shock-jocks and revisionist propaganda puff-pieces written by 'trained singers'.
Its part of the infantilism of the right wing, everything is someone elses fault - usually the British. 'It wasn't me sir, I didn't do it sir, it was an older boy sir, can I have a cookie now?'

I suppose the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour was the fault of the British, wait, I have it, the opium wars so weakened China and disrupted the balance that Japan became dominant and decided to attack America for no reason - nothing to do with belligerent expansionism by the US in the region and threats against Japan - it was the British a century before!

So who was America nobly riding to the rescue of in that one? The people of Bikini Atoll?
Nah, after the towers came down I went to my first sergeant and requested to go to ground zero as a rescue worker. She respectfully listened to my friend Joe and I plead to go home to help and told us no.

About two weeks later my team was put on alert and told to pack our bags because we might be going to Afghanistan. Didn't happen. I was excited to go. I wanted revenge. My friends dad (not Joe's) was a firefighter that died in one of the towers.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2019-10-29 02:58:04
uziq
Member
+498|3723
but wait, why did OBL attack new york if afghanistan and iraq were the brits' mess?

wasn't he AWARE of dost mohammad's humiliating failure in 1841?

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-29 02:59:15)

2019-10-29 03:46:50
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6376|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

I was excited to go. I wanted revenge.
Except 9/11 was perpetrated by a group of middle-class Saudis, not Afghan opium farmers.

Must have been disappointing to have been sent all that way when the plan all along was to let Bin Laden walk unhindered to Pakistan
Fuck Israel
2019-10-29 11:22:12
uziq
Member
+498|3723
https://twitter.com/independent/status/ … 10209?s=21

omg first AOC grills zuck and now she hammers it home to exxon.

<3 go queen!!!!11

 

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