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2020-07-09 13:09:25
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,054|7038|PNW

Jay wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Jay wrote:

So he could hire a random off the street and you'd be OK with it as long as the random wasn't related? Is your issue just the nepotism?
I don't think Biden would hire "randoms off the street." What kind of response is that.

The issues with the Trump presidency stretch far beyond merely creating/staffing positions for/with friends and family.
I agree, it's minor. But like everything, it's treated like a BIG FUCKING DEAL. If everything is a BIG FUCKING DEAL then nothing is.
My point wasn't that it was minor so much is that it's a spit in the bucket next to all of the president's other undesirable traits.

I would consider cancer and COVID-19 to both be big deals. I wouldn't say that because someone has both, they cancel themselves out somehow because "who has the energy to be concerned about both things?" What the heck, jay.
2020-07-09 13:37:50
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5810|Toronto

Jay wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Jay wrote:


So he could hire a random off the street and you'd be OK with it as long as the random wasn't related? Is your issue just the nepotism?
I don't think Biden would hire "randoms off the street." What kind of response is that.

The issues with the Trump presidency stretch far beyond merely creating/staffing positions for/with friends and family.
I agree, it's minor. But like everything, it's treated like a BIG FUCKING DEAL. If everything is a BIG FUCKING DEAL then nothing is.
Whoa. I don't pretend to know much about American politics, but hearing that Trump supporters are actually ok with nepotism is jarring. I don't have much to say, but I guess I'd offer good luck.
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
2020-07-09 13:48:53
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,054|7038|PNW

I know a number of Trump supporters who won't actually come out and admit they're behind him or voted for him. They just let his tweets and opinions undercurrent their political argumentation like the buzzing of fluorescent lights. The same "gotcha, libs" you see from pro-Trump sites parroted into an unwanted conversation. Qualified with "but actually, I'm a libertarian," or "I'm an old school Republican."

"You can only have one problem with Trump or you're going to exhaust people by turning everything into a big deal" is probably a bit of a repugnant approach.
2020-07-09 13:55:42
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5810|Toronto
All too often when I probe those sorts of people it devolves into a discussion of the 2 party system and how they were "forced" to vote for Trump. Ignoring that spoiled ballots are recorded and form a distinct option to support neither major party, or that voting for your libertarian/socialist/communist/christian party is not a 'waste' of a ballot just because a person doesn't think they have a shot at winning. Even if the party you like isn't governing, they still have a seat in the House and can influence policy. The 'all or nothing' thinking really hurts politics.

Last edited by Pochsy (2020-07-09 13:57:16)

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
2020-07-09 14:02:05
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,980|6899|949

you also have the people who will vote for 3rd parties and use that as an excuse "i didn't vote for the guy" when convenient.
2020-07-09 14:21:56
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5625|London, England

Pochsy wrote:

Jay wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:


I don't think Biden would hire "randoms off the street." What kind of response is that.

The issues with the Trump presidency stretch far beyond merely creating/staffing positions for/with friends and family.
I agree, it's minor. But like everything, it's treated like a BIG FUCKING DEAL. If everything is a BIG FUCKING DEAL then nothing is.
Whoa. I don't pretend to know much about American politics, but hearing that Trump supporters are actually ok with nepotism is jarring. I don't have much to say, but I guess I'd offer good luck.
I'm not a supporter. I'm just ambivalent about nepotism. People get jobs because they have connections every day. Being related isn't all that different from giving your best friends son a job, is it?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-07-09 14:24:10
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5625|London, England

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I know a number of Trump supporters who won't actually come out and admit they're behind him or voted for him. They just let his tweets and opinions undercurrent their political argumentation like the buzzing of fluorescent lights. The same "gotcha, libs" you see from pro-Trump sites parroted into an unwanted conversation. Qualified with "but actually, I'm a libertarian," or "I'm an old school Republican."

"You can only have one problem with Trump or you're going to exhaust people by turning everything into a big deal" is probably a bit of a repugnant approach.
Ask yourself this question before you kvetch: "if Obama had done this and the right wingers made a big deal about it, would I defend Obama or wave it off as nonsense?" This is tan suit level stuff.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-07-09 14:25:46
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5625|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

you also have the people who will vote for 3rd parties and use that as an excuse "i didn't vote for the guy" when convenient.
Why is that just a convenient excuse? Is this like when minority people scream in your face and tell you that silence is complicity? How very fascist, ken.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-07-09 14:29:09
uziq
Member
+498|3719

Jay wrote:

Pochsy wrote:

Jay wrote:


I agree, it's minor. But like everything, it's treated like a BIG FUCKING DEAL. If everything is a BIG FUCKING DEAL then nothing is.
Whoa. I don't pretend to know much about American politics, but hearing that Trump supporters are actually ok with nepotism is jarring. I don't have much to say, but I guess I'd offer good luck.
I'm not a supporter. I'm just ambivalent about nepotism. People get jobs because they have connections every day. Being related isn't all that different from giving your best friends son a job, is it?
but this isn't someone giving their best friend's son a leg-up and a quick salary, is it? it's a totally unqualified, inexperienced ideologue being put in charge of things that have very real consequences on your ENTIRE COUNTRY.

you really can't see why there should be rules and accountability around this sort of thing in national politics? it's the institutions that ensure and guarantee a stable democracy, jay, not a small-medium-sized enterprise helping someone get work experience.
2020-07-09 14:32:10
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5625|London, England

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

Pochsy wrote:

Whoa. I don't pretend to know much about American politics, but hearing that Trump supporters are actually ok with nepotism is jarring. I don't have much to say, but I guess I'd offer good luck.
I'm not a supporter. I'm just ambivalent about nepotism. People get jobs because they have connections every day. Being related isn't all that different from giving your best friends son a job, is it?
but this isn't someone giving their best friend's son a leg-up and a quick salary, is it? it's a totally unqualified, inexperienced ideologue being put in charge of things that have very real consequences on your ENTIRE COUNTRY.

you really can't see why there should be rules and accountability around this sort of thing in national politics? it's the institutions that ensure and guarantee a stable democracy, jay, not a small-medium-sized enterprise helping someone get work experience.
When has any President not filled out his inner circle with people he knows and trusts? The difference with Trump is he didn't spend a lifetime in the political system forming friendships with people with government experience that you would approve of. He's an outsider, so his inner circle is full of outsiders. Yes, they are bereft of experience within the system. That was kind of the point.

Last edited by Jay (2020-07-09 14:32:48)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-07-09 14:33:12
uziq
Member
+498|3719
yes, it is kind of the point, and it has been a disaster for your democracy nationally and internationally.

you have the worst covid-19 outbreak in the world and you seem to regard it as an act of god, providence. join the dots, idiot.
2020-07-09 14:36:28
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,742|7004|Cinncinatti
he still could have picked people that weren't awful from outside the system.

and his fucking turnover rate is worse than mcdonalds
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
2020-07-09 14:41:07
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5625|London, England

uziq wrote:

yes, it is kind of the point, and it has been a disaster for your democracy nationally and internationally.

you have the worst covid-19 outbreak in the world and you seem to regard it as an act of god, providence. join the dots, idiot.
I'm just realistic. Hillary Rodham Clinton was not the person to run if the goal was to unite the country. Republican states would've treated her as badly as Trump has been treated by the Democrats. Literally half the country would rather spit on her than listen to her. Biden at least has a mild amount of likeability. He won't unite shit, but whatever.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-07-09 14:41:22
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5625|London, England

RTHKI wrote:

he still could have picked people that weren't awful from outside the system.

and his fucking turnover rate is worse than mcdonalds
Agreed
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-07-09 14:43:37
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,054|7038|PNW

Jay wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I know a number of Trump supporters who won't actually come out and admit they're behind him or voted for him. They just let his tweets and opinions undercurrent their political argumentation like the buzzing of fluorescent lights. The same "gotcha, libs" you see from pro-Trump sites parroted into an unwanted conversation. Qualified with "but actually, I'm a libertarian," or "I'm an old school Republican."

"You can only have one problem with Trump or you're going to exhaust people by turning everything into a big deal" is probably a bit of a repugnant approach.
Ask yourself this question before you kvetch: "if Obama had done this and the right wingers made a big deal about it, would I defend Obama or wave it off as nonsense?" This is tan suit level stuff.
This is not a real argument. My distaste for policies I don't agree with does not hinge on whether it's colored red or blue.

"Kvetch." Go soak your head.
2020-07-09 14:49:11
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,980|6899|949

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

you also have the people who will vote for 3rd parties and use that as an excuse "i didn't vote for the guy" when convenient.
Why is that just a convenient excuse? Is this like when minority people scream in your face and tell you that silence is complicity? How very fascist, ken.
It's not JUST a convenient excuse. It can be used as an excuse when convenient. See the difference?
2020-07-09 14:51:03
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,054|7038|PNW

Jay must have had to spend some time around his kids today. He's in a really foul mood.
2020-07-09 15:11:08
uziq
Member
+498|3719

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

yes, it is kind of the point, and it has been a disaster for your democracy nationally and internationally.

you have the worst covid-19 outbreak in the world and you seem to regard it as an act of god, providence. join the dots, idiot.
I'm just realistic. Hillary Rodham Clinton was not the person to run if the goal was to unite the country. Republican states would've treated her as badly as Trump has been treated by the Democrats. Literally half the country would rather spit on her than listen to her. Biden at least has a mild amount of likeability. He won't unite shit, but whatever.
right. and realistically if clinton was in the white house you wouldn't have 200,000 dead americans in 2020.
2020-07-09 15:20:47
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5810|Toronto
I never really understood this common American criticism of a politician "not uniting the country". How is that in any way a reasonable aspiration for any politician when 80% of the population has already decided on who they are voting for before the election is announced? 40% in any scenario is going to be pissed off. Maybe 10% will be ok-enough with a stellar opposition leader.

I guess my point is: what the fuck is the point of saying that?
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
2020-07-09 15:24:20
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,742|7004|Cinncinatti
Rich libertarians invested in making the divide as bad as it is today.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
2020-07-09 15:26:59
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5810|Toronto
Hey man, you make money in the markets on volatility. Stir that shit, spin that news, and collect that hot cash money.
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
2020-07-09 15:43:44
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,054|7038|PNW

re: unification

Like Trump is a very unifying individual. But no, let's dwell on Hillary. The person who isn't president (but maybe a person who would have taken the virus more seriously).

Or lay Trump's gaffes at the feet of Obama and challenge people to "criticize them then." Wonderful argument.
2020-07-09 16:07:52
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5625|London, England

Pochsy wrote:

I never really understood this common American criticism of a politician "not uniting the country". How is that in any way a reasonable aspiration for any politician when 80% of the population has already decided on who they are voting for before the election is announced? 40% in any scenario is going to be pissed off. Maybe 10% will be ok-enough with a stellar opposition leader.

I guess my point is: what the fuck is the point of saying that?
Some politicians can be transcendent if they are charismatic enough. We're at a very low point in our country politically where half the country starts screaming and yelling and threatening and throwing hissy fits when the other side is in power. I will say that it got worse this time. There is usually at least some honeymoon period where the other side says "I don't like his opinions but I respect the office" which lasts until the first disagreement. Never happened this time, and with the endless tit for tat and oneupmanship from both extremes, I'm afraid it never will happen again.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-07-09 16:09:17
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5625|London, England

RTHKI wrote:

Rich libertarians invested in making the divide as bad as it is today.
Those damn Koch brothers! How dare they fund free speech action groups!
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-07-09 16:15:07
uziq
Member
+498|3719
of course jay likes to leap to the defence of the koch bro(s). another classic example of him espousing bad-faith positions and ideological posturing.

the koch bros hate you jay. you are a peon.

 

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