Now I know why hitting targets that move side to side are harder

2006-05-30 15:37:07

#1

Nyte: Legendary BF2S Veteran; +535|7234|Toronto, ON

It's due to the crappy hitbox and server side predicts. This debunks all those claims of skill of hitting moving targets, it's all LUCK.

I'll get a fraps video of what I mean when I have time.

But picture this. The model and the hitbox are 2 entirely different things. The hitbox is maintained by the server while the model is clientside. Depending on the update rate of the server, the hitbox may "hiccup" but the model may look smooth on your side (depending on how good of a system you have).

So when an enemy starts to run to the side, their model will run smoothly but the hitbox may or may not be ahead/lag behind the actual model. Further proof of this is the hitting-body-dust-flies-off effect, that is a clientside animation (computed on YOUR machine). The server however sees it differently, the hitbox of the model may not have been updated at that time yet to reflect the new position of the model.

The reason why hitting targets that move towards/away from you is because the hitbox is "hiccuping" towards/away from you which in essence is not really moving away from your crosshairs.

So the next time someone states that hitting a moving target is sk1llz, take it with a grain of salt.

Alpha as fuck.

2006-05-30 15:43:01

#2

spawnofthemist: Banned; +1,128|7123|Burmecia, Land of the Rain

ok nyte..

so this means you're not really as good as you say you are?

most of your shots are luck?

gg

2006-05-30 15:43:20

#3

MuseSeeker: 2142 Soldier: Behenaut; +110|7257|EUR

Just like counter strike, thanks for reasuring me. Should give me a reason to smile about then when I saw that trail of dust coming off but the enemy still running.

I guess this is the same with knifes?

2006-05-30 15:46:05

#4

Mabec: Re-Member-Me; +6|7313

Finally someone who understand.

The networkcode is terrible under online gaming in BF2, LAN works smooth thou.

2006-05-30 15:51:07

#5

genius_man16: Platinum Star whore; +365|7160|Middle of nowhere

so THAT's why i can never hit anyone running when i'm sniper...

ah well, i don't really care too much, i mostly just pwn with my PKM anyways

2006-05-30 16:19:22

#6

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|7103|London, England

Yeah i've noticed that the hitbox lags behind alot, this is annoying becuase i dodge an AT missile only to get killed becuase i didn't really dodge it. Needs to be sorted, i usually average around 20-40 ping on most servers. Don't think it should happen with low pings.

Reason number# 534534 i just stay above the action in a plane nowadays. Lag doesn't really matter.

2006-05-30 16:28:14

#7

randompants: Member; +3|7052

yea Nyte is def. right about this....i've landed shots with my crosshair behind a running enemies head, and i've missed shots that i deemed perfect when leading a target. As far as I can tell from my own sniping experiences, my friends, and the numerous videos on the internet, there is no absolutely correct way to snipe running targets at considerable distances due to the various client/server update rates.

2006-05-30 16:30:11

#8

Zeon.: l33t sp33k Specialist; +159|7039|Behind j00OMFG HAX, Bristol UK

If your a sniper and someone is running a certain way, you need to aim infront of them anyway because the bullet will hit them as they run past.

2006-05-30 16:46:06

#9

Mj.Blindfisch: Bulletdrop-Buddha; +338|7178|Germany

Nyte wrote:
It's due to the crappy hitbox and server side predicts. This debunks all those claims of skill of hitting moving targets, it's all LUCK.

I'll get a fraps video of what I mean when I have time.

But picture this. The model and the hitbox are 2 entirely different things. The hitbox is maintained by the server while the model is clientside. Depending on the update rate of the server, the hitbox may "hiccup" but the model may look smooth on your side (depending on how good of a system you have).

So when an enemy starts to run to the side, their model will run smoothly but the hitbox may or may not be ahead/lag behind the actual model. Further proof of this is the hitting-body-dust-flies-off effect, that is a clientside animation (computed on YOUR machine). The server however sees it differently, the hitbox of the model may not have been updated at that time yet to reflect the new position of the model.

The reason why hitting targets that move towards/away from you is because the hitbox is "hiccuping" towards/away from you which in essence is not really moving away from your crosshairs.

So the next time someone states that hitting a moving target is sk1llz, take it with a grain of salt.

If your theory is correct,how do you explain those grey puffs on absolutely stationary targets??
Like a humvee-gunner 40 meters away from you,the head is huge inside the scope and you get one grey puff of nothing after another,that's what happened to me on Smoke Screen yesterday.
Seems that your theory isn't quite gripping there.

And on the other hand I can manage it quite well to hit lateral moving targets.
I have always seen the grey puff as a netcode/packetloss related thing,you get this with knives and with assault rifles as well,but it's not so obvious when you pump 20 AK47 shots into someone and only 10 shots really hit.
I don't think that it is similar to the hit boxes in CS.

2006-05-30 16:48:24

#10

Rizen_Ji: Member; +41|7217|200m out and smiling at you.

Zeon. wrote:
If your a sniper and someone is running a certain way, you need to aim infront of them anyway because the bullet will hit them as they run past.

nah, he's talking about server lag man, he's saying the hit boxes for a person are behind them and while you see a hit the server doesn't see it cause it's dumb and doesn't wanna keep up with the person. so the hitboxes will be slightly behind the model of the person and therefore a hit indicator on your screen but no hit registered by the server. that's all really.

2006-05-30 17:02:06

#11

Sorrenart: Member; +0|7092

I think the server compensates for a lot of misses on moving targets. When it does, it's called luck.

I know once I completely missed a helicopter (as in shouldn't have hit it at all) and shot out the pilot. That was awesome.

2006-05-30 17:06:51

#12

l41e: Member; +677|7130

I guess this explains how I shot an AT round at an APC, it went straight through, he turned and started shooting DIRECTLY at me and I took no damage.

2006-05-30 17:10:34

#13

Terrible_chester: PKM Whore; +16|7117|Prolly on wake.

genius_man16 wrote:
so THAT's why i can never hit anyone running when i'm sniper...

ah well, i don't really care too much, i mostly just pwn with my PKM anyways

DAASWAHIMTAHKINBOUT!!!

2006-05-30 17:11:24

#14

Fubar/fox: Sponcered by belgium beer; +4|7307|Belgium

That explanes a lot like why you still die from mg fire after you already turned a corner into safety
or why you sometimes knife a person (hitting him) without doing anny dammage or why rockets sometimes have no effect at all

Good work nite +1 for ya

2006-05-30 17:13:49

#15

SiMSaM16: Member; +48|7175|United States of America

that doesnt mean skill isnt involved...

2006-05-30 17:14:41

#16

[GPIII]_Maj.Bong: Member; +5|7106

Now I understand why it is after I have already ran behind a wall that i can still be shot and killed.

That definately needs to be fixed or at least changed in future games.

2006-05-30 17:26:31

#17

TriggerHappy998: just nothing; +387|7329|-

spawnofthemist wrote:
ok nyte..

so this means you're not really as good as you say you are?

most of your shots are luck?

gg

Slayed.

*high five*

2006-05-30 17:26:57

#18

_The.Don_05: Im super serial; +58|7065|England

Ahhhh thanks nyte, that explains why hitting bots on co-op works much better than online.

I never thought id say this but +1 for you.

2006-05-30 18:18:54

#19

spawnofthemist: Banned; +1,128|7123|Burmecia, Land of the Rain

TriggerHappy998 wrote:
spawnofthemist wrote:
ok nyte..

so this means you're not really as good as you say you are?

most of your shots are luck?

gg
Slayed.

*high five*

Show the Spawn some love man *hi-5*

*Scrubs (and TriggerHappy998) FTW! ^_^*

Last edited by spawnofthemist (2006-05-30 18:19:47)

2006-05-30 18:22:23

#20

polarbearz: Raiders of the Lost Bear; +-1,474|7270|Singapore

Mj.Blindfisch wrote:
If your theory is correct,how do you explain those grey puffs on absolutely stationary targets??
Like a humvee-gunner 40 meters away from you,the head is huge inside the scope and you get one grey puff of nothing after another,that's what happened to me on Smoke Screen yesterday.
Seems that your theory isn't quite gripping there.

And on the other hand I can manage it quite well to hit lateral moving targets.
I have always seen the grey puff as a netcode/packetloss related thing,you get this with knives and with assault rifles as well,but it's not so obvious when you pump 20 AK47 shots into someone and only 10 shots really hit.
I don't think that it is similar to the hit boxes in CS.

He may have been crouching INTO the 'shield' at that moment? That's my theory anyway.

Anyways this shows that accuracy counts for shit. I only have crap accuracy because I like doing a... umm. Thourough job. I saturate the area with bullets to make sure he goes down.

2006-05-30 18:23:07

#21

ShellShock.PwN: Member; +31|7269|Barrie Ontario

Every FPS u play the killboxes ALWAYS suck.

2006-05-30 18:25:15

#22

polarbearz: Raiders of the Lost Bear; +-1,474|7270|Singapore

ShellShock.PwN wrote:
Every FPS u play the killboxes ALWAYS suck.

Coming from the man who religiously follows the Top 10 (2 at least) in his sig.

But back on topic: I don't think CS:S and COD's killboxes were too bad to be honest.

2006-05-30 19:28:03

#23

Darky: Hi..; +71|7043|Here.

polarbearz wrote:
ShellShock.PwN wrote:
Every FPS u play the killboxes ALWAYS suck.
Coming from the man who religiously follows the Top 10 (2 at least) in his sig.

But back on topic: I don't think CS:S and COD's killboxes were too bad to be honest.

I once watched a video of the hitboxes in CS:S (there's a feature that allows you to turn them on in wireframe mode) and most of the time, in a player moving right to left or vice versa on your screen, the hitboxes can be up to a full character model behind the actual player.

Whilst I dont think they are that bad in BF2, they certainly do lag. Would be interesting to see where exactly the hitboxes line up when people and vehicles are moving around on a somewhat decent, lower ping server.

2006-05-30 19:46:28

#24

rick2k: Member; +0|7128

Oh man this is normally what crap players from counter strike would say to make up for them sucking so much.

There is nothing wrong with hitboxes from any recent FPS games Ive ever played.. Any hitbox "hiccups" are down to poor servers. What do you expect when most server company's try to ram as many bf2/cs/cod servers on a machine as possible to save money eh? thats right.. shit performance

Go play a good dedicated, providing you have a stable connection and the server has a nice connection you will have near perfect game play and registry.

Dont post any movies to these bad hitbox omfg must see videos... there all made by jackasses who run the server from the PC there playing on.. way to go!!

anyway.. first post i think Hi.

2006-05-30 19:54:36

#25

switchbladezz: Member; +48|7099

I really think most of you are making a huge deal out of this, it really has almost no effect when you try to snipe a running taget the lag of the hit box it almost always so little that it rarely makes a difference.

The only time in BF2 when the hit boxes do make a difference is when people go prone. This is because you may see the animation of a guy dropping to the ground but if you try to shoot at the guy while he is dropping to the ground the hit will not register because the hit boxes from the server already see him as a prone figure.

BF2S Forums Now I know why hitting targets that move side to side are harder

Nyte wrote:

Zeon. wrote:

genius_man16 wrote:

spawnofthemist wrote:

TriggerHappy998 wrote:

spawnofthemist wrote:

Mj.Blindfisch wrote:

ShellShock.PwN wrote:

polarbearz wrote:

ShellShock.PwN wrote:

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