true, very true +1Bubbalo wrote:
Many terrorists wish to kick "infidels" out of their sacred lands, no more. Kind of like wanting to, say, kick the British out of your colony, no?d3v1ldr1v3r13 wrote:
Dont need to, the terrorist group he was involved with is no different than the Al-Queda of yesterday, kill the infidels who do no worship Allah...
Just saw this post on the canoe website...
"ALERT A spokesman for the American military forces in Iraq said that Abu Mauswab al-Zarqawi was still alive at the time Iraqi forces arrived at the site of a U.S. air strike. MORE LATER"
"ALERT A spokesman for the American military forces in Iraq said that Abu Mauswab al-Zarqawi was still alive at the time Iraqi forces arrived at the site of a U.S. air strike. MORE LATER"
Which means maybe the terrorists were lying/hoping he was dead? It'll look better if he's taken alive.Rygar wrote:
"ALERT A spokesman for the American military forces in Iraq said that Abu Mauswab al-Zarqawi was still alive at the time Iraqi forces arrived at the site of a U.S. air strike. MORE LATER"
No, he's still quite dead.
"Al-Zarqawi was alive shortly after bombing
He died after ‘he mumbled something,’ military spokesman says
WASHINGTON - Terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was still alive when Iraqi police arrived at a site that was bombed by U.S. forces, a top-level spokesman for American military forces said Friday.
Brig Gen. Bill Caldwell, briefing military reporters at the Pentagon from his post in Baghdad, said he learned that al-Zarqawi was alive after getting briefings on the military operation that netted al-Zarqawi and several others.
“He mumbled something but it was indistinguishable and it was very short,” Caldwell said.
The U.S. military earlier had displayed images of the battered face of al-Zarqawi and reported that he had been identified by fingerprints, tattoos and scars. Biological samples from his body also were delivered to an FBI crime laboratory in Virginia for DNA testing. The results were expected in three days.
Caldwell said Friday that authorities made a visual identification of al-Zarqawi upon arriving at the site of the airstrike.
He said that when the terrorist “attempted to sort of turn away off the stretcher, everybody reached to insert him back. ... He died a short time later from the wounds suffered during the airstrike.”
“We did in fact see him alive,” Caldwell said. “There was some sort of movement he had on the stretcher and he did die a short time later. There was confirmation from the Iraqi police that he was found alive.”
Al-Zarqawi, who had a $25 million bounty on his head, was killed at 6:15 p.m. Wednesday after an intense two-week hunt that U.S. officials said first led to the terror leader’s spiritual adviser and then to him.
U.S. Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said at the time that the American airstrike targeted “an identified, isolated safe house.” Four other people, including a woman and a child, were killed with al-Zarqawi and Abu Abdul-Rahman al-Iraqi, the terrorist’s spiritual consultant.
© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed."
"Al-Zarqawi was alive shortly after bombing
He died after ‘he mumbled something,’ military spokesman says
WASHINGTON - Terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was still alive when Iraqi police arrived at a site that was bombed by U.S. forces, a top-level spokesman for American military forces said Friday.
Brig Gen. Bill Caldwell, briefing military reporters at the Pentagon from his post in Baghdad, said he learned that al-Zarqawi was alive after getting briefings on the military operation that netted al-Zarqawi and several others.
“He mumbled something but it was indistinguishable and it was very short,” Caldwell said.
The U.S. military earlier had displayed images of the battered face of al-Zarqawi and reported that he had been identified by fingerprints, tattoos and scars. Biological samples from his body also were delivered to an FBI crime laboratory in Virginia for DNA testing. The results were expected in three days.
Caldwell said Friday that authorities made a visual identification of al-Zarqawi upon arriving at the site of the airstrike.
He said that when the terrorist “attempted to sort of turn away off the stretcher, everybody reached to insert him back. ... He died a short time later from the wounds suffered during the airstrike.”
“We did in fact see him alive,” Caldwell said. “There was some sort of movement he had on the stretcher and he did die a short time later. There was confirmation from the Iraqi police that he was found alive.”
Al-Zarqawi, who had a $25 million bounty on his head, was killed at 6:15 p.m. Wednesday after an intense two-week hunt that U.S. officials said first led to the terror leader’s spiritual adviser and then to him.
U.S. Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said at the time that the American airstrike targeted “an identified, isolated safe house.” Four other people, including a woman and a child, were killed with al-Zarqawi and Abu Abdul-Rahman al-Iraqi, the terrorist’s spiritual consultant.
© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed."
If I was an Iraqi citizen and this dude Musab al-Zarqawi just survived two five hundred pound bombs I would jump through mother #@%$ ing fire hoops naked with a stick up my ass if this dude told me to! Shit no wonder why these people are scared. This dude must be hiding some serious kryptonite up his ass![ I mean was]
Last edited by acidkiller187 (2006-06-09 07:12:50)
Why, because he doesn't agree with you? Have you considered the possibility that to many Americans YOU might appear to be the one who is brainwashed?PekkaA wrote:
Yet another example of brainwashed american...
I haven't given you neg Karma, but I did comment on a post of yours. Never heard anything about it from you.PekkaA wrote:
Btw, you redwhite&blue guys have very mature ways to debate here. You don't reply to my posts, just send me -1 with intelligent "fuck you commie" or "up yours hippie". And all of them anonymous.
This is a misleading way of framing the issue. Does one try ones best to get him without killing other people? Yes. Does one sometimes fail? Yes. Does one stop fighting the bad guys because sometimes there will be collateral damage? Absolutely not. The idea that war can be sanitized to avoid civilian casualties is patently ridiculous - it is absolutely impossible. The implication of the complaint is that there should be NO collateral damage, yet the only way to do that is to cease opposing people like Zarqawi. That idea is also patently ridiculous. I am sorry for the families of people killed accidentally in combat, but that is NO REASON to cease fighting - as our opponants kill many more innocents than we do, only they do it DELIBERATELY. As long as people like Zarqawi and Bin Laden are out there, I believe that the risk of causing some unintended casualties is worth taking to oppose them. In the long run, we will save lives.|Vap0rXX| wrote:
And also for eveyone who is all whoo rahh about the massive bomb that obliterated a bunker, keep in m,ind that a women, and a child were murdered in this attack. They did nothing and will now be refered to as "collateral damage", clearly a massive understatement and a way to brush off a wayard death. Imagine some kid in America getting killed at night with her mother all to kill a terrorist, is it worth it?
What do you know about the resources used against Zarqawi? Precious little I suspect. Try to recall that the entire Iraq operation is not geared toward killing Zarqawi. No, I think we are doing just fine on financing the deaths of people like him. As far as a 'Justification to continue occupation' goes, that betrays a comical ignorance of US politics. The fact is that GWB and the GOP would give their collective 'left nut' to get the hell out of Iraq, and the US people WANT our troops out as soon as possible. This is crystal clear from any poll within the last year. Unfortunately, that would be leaving a mess of our own creation, which would be unethical (and I suspect you would be among the first to point that out were it to happen).PekkaA wrote:
If coalition uses same amount of resources and lives for every terrorist leader, insurgents will win this in a few years by driving enemies bankrupt. Just like usa did to ussr. To be serious, most specialists have said, that Al Zarqawi wasn't very important to insurgents, more like a justification to continue occupation. I'm sure that us army or government will soon announce a new main target to hunted, and used as an excuse to get rid of ageing bombs.
The key to BEING a crack troop is training and planning. The better the unit, the more training and planning it does. No unit is going to be able to pull off a raid of that type without some serious planning and training, and that takes time....the more time the better. If time is a factor (e.g. We know Zarqawi is there NOW, but we don't know for how long), then you call the Air Force if you are serious about getting it done; they can have a bird in the air and on mission much faster than the SpecOps guys can even discuss what needs to be done. Its a simple case of, "Destroy the building at grid AB12345678..." vs. "Ok guys, we have intel that Elvis is at target location, study this sand table, here's the plan; blah blah blah." Our Special Ops guys are AMAZING, but they aren't magicians.JahManRed wrote:
With all our highly trained crack troops and special forces surly a ground assault would have been better and we could have got him alive and put his ass on trial. He got what he wanted anyway..martyrdom. I don't like the fact that the general strategy is to bomb everything to rubble from the air, killing women and children.
Understand before you criticize.
So........the US Army can win any battle, so long as the enemy gives them time to have tea and crumpets and a jolly good think about the problem at hand, but it would be just unseemly to be expected to fight with no warning, wot eh?whittsend wrote:
The key to BEING a crack troop is training and planning.
you think somebody joins the military and goes to combat the next day?!?!?!?!?!?!?Bubbalo wrote:
So........the US Army can win any battle, so long as the enemy gives them time to have tea and crumpets and a jolly good think about the problem at hand, but it would be just unseemly to be expected to fight with no warning, wot eh?whittsend wrote:
The key to BEING a crack troop is training and planning.
You have just demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what I said. Deliberate? Likely.Bubbalo wrote:
So........the US Army can win any battle, so long as the enemy gives them time to have tea and crumpets and a jolly good think about the problem at hand, but it would be just unseemly to be expected to fight with no warning, wot eh?whittsend wrote:
The key to BEING a crack troop is training and planning.
To Whittsend:
1) No, I don't think people who disagree with me are brainwashed. In that case almost everyone I know would be brainwashed. Over here we can have a mind of our own. But isn't it a known fact, that american networks priorize news that make people fear more? And they have succeeded if someone can't sleep because of a lunatic living in a shithole thousands of miles away.Just reading this forum proofs my point.
2)Sorry, didn't notice. I'll find it an comment if I have something to say.
3)Can't you read between the lines? I wasn't very serious, and I for sure better things to do than figure out what exact amounts of money you spend to bombs etc. VERY much, it's all that matters to me.
And those who told me that I shouldn't comment on other peoples conversation: As long as it's on a public forum I think I can bring out my opinion. I you can't bear it, discuss things privately.
I get a feeling that even though I write in english, I speak different language than you redwhite&blues... You're twisting my words and putting things I've never said to my mouth. Do yourselves a favor, travel abroad and meet foreign people and try change your pretty twisted ideologies. Because I know many americans, two of my friends are even married to one. So I know that these bashers here don't represent typical american.
1) No, I don't think people who disagree with me are brainwashed. In that case almost everyone I know would be brainwashed. Over here we can have a mind of our own. But isn't it a known fact, that american networks priorize news that make people fear more? And they have succeeded if someone can't sleep because of a lunatic living in a shithole thousands of miles away.Just reading this forum proofs my point.
2)Sorry, didn't notice. I'll find it an comment if I have something to say.
3)Can't you read between the lines? I wasn't very serious, and I for sure better things to do than figure out what exact amounts of money you spend to bombs etc. VERY much, it's all that matters to me.
And those who told me that I shouldn't comment on other peoples conversation: As long as it's on a public forum I think I can bring out my opinion. I you can't bear it, discuss things privately.
I get a feeling that even though I write in english, I speak different language than you redwhite&blues... You're twisting my words and putting things I've never said to my mouth. Do yourselves a favor, travel abroad and meet foreign people and try change your pretty twisted ideologies. Because I know many americans, two of my friends are even married to one. So I know that these bashers here don't represent typical american.
No, it proves nothing. First of all, American Networks, just like networks everywhere, prioritize news that will get them ratings. They also sensatinalise the news. Neither of these is unique to the US. As a side note, Network news are losing market share at a dramatic rate. To believe that they are 'brainwashing' the populous, even if it were possible, is to ignore the fact that most Americans aren't watching them.PekkaA wrote:
To Whittsend:
1) No, I don't think people who disagree with me are brainwashed. In that case almost everyone I know would be brainwashed. Over here we can have a mind of our own. But isn't it a known fact, that american networks priorize news that make people fear more? And they have succeeded if someone can't sleep because of a lunatic living in a shithole thousands of miles away.Just reading this forum proofs my point.
As far as people losing sleep over a 'lunatic living in a shithole thousands of miles away' goes: I don't lose much sleep over it myself, but over 3000 people were induced to permanent sleep here because of a 'lunatic living in a shithole thousands of miles away,' so if some choose to worry about it, I cannot say I blame them much.
Please, how was I to know your post wasn't serious? I cannot see your face, and I cannot hear your tone. Successful sarcasm relies upon these things.PekkaA wrote:
3)Can't you read between the lines? I wasn't very serious, and I for sure better things to do than figure out what exact amounts of money you spend to bombs etc. VERY much, it's all that matters to me.
Your use of the term 'redwhite&blues' is demeaning, and because I believe you are deliberately using it to be demeaning, it is offensive. When you refer to 'Americans' you should call them 'Americans.' I can accept 'yank' because I know, though it is hardly respectful, it is mild and playful. When you use terms to refer to people which may be percieved as demeaning you invite them to be on the defensive and retaliate. Choose your forms of address more carefully, or stop complaining about how people react to you.PekkaA wrote:
I get a feeling that even though I write in english, I speak different language than you redwhite&blues. You're twisting my words and putting things I've never said to my mouth.
I have been to 15 countries on 5 continents, and I still disagree with much that you say and imply...so being well travelled isn't going to change how people react to your statements. Here's a thought: Stop treating people you discuss issues with here as being entirely representative of their countries. Treat them as individuals with their own opinions, and stop using demeaning terms to refer to millions of people. If you follow this advice, the number of people who are pissed off by your statements might decline.PekkaA wrote:
Do yourselves a favor, travel abroad and meet foreign people and try change your pretty twisted ideologies. Because I know many americans, two of my friends are even married to one. So I know that these bashers here don't represent typical american.
Last edited by whittsend (2006-06-09 08:00:55)
No, I haven't. Really good troops have the ability to go at a moments notice.whittsend wrote:
You have just demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what I said. Deliberate? Likely.
Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-06-09 08:12:24)
whittsend wrote:
Here's a thought: Stop treating people you discuss issues with here as being entirely representative of their countries. Treat them as individuals with their own opinions, and stop using demeaning terms to refer to millions of people.
This is what I meant by people twisting my words. And yes, I did use term redwhite&blue as a synonym for uber-nationalist warhogs intentionally. I didn't mean americans generally.PekkaA wrote:
I know that these bashers here don't represent typical american.
And speaking of being civilized, you should see what brainfarts I get to my karma box.
Last edited by PekkaA (2006-06-09 08:16:00)
al-Zarkawi[knife] Ken Bigley
al-Zarkawi[knife] Nick Berg
al-Zarkawi[bomb] 70 people in Amman
al-Zarkawi[kill damage assist] Laurence Foley
al-Zarkawi[bomb] 22 people Canal Hotel
USAF [F-15] Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
Ding Dong! The Sheik is dead. Which old Sheik? The Wicked Sheik!
Ding Dong! The Wicked Sheik is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Sheik is dead. He's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Sheik is dead!
Mayor
As Mayor of the Bahgdad City, In the County of the Land of Iraq, I welcome you most regally.
Barrister
But we've got to verify it legally, to see
Mayor
To see?
Barrister
If he
Mayor
If he?
Barrister
Is morally, ethic'lly
Father No.1
Spiritually, physically
Father No. 2
Positively, absolutely
Munchkins
Undeniably and reliably Dead
Coroner
As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined him.
And he's not only merely dead, he's really most sincerely dead.
Mayor
Then this is a day of Independence For all the Iraqi's and their descendants
Barrister
If any.
Mayor
Yes, let the joyous news be spread The wicked al Zarkawi at last is dead!
al-Zarkawi[knife] Nick Berg
al-Zarkawi[bomb] 70 people in Amman
al-Zarkawi[kill damage assist] Laurence Foley
al-Zarkawi[bomb] 22 people Canal Hotel
USAF [F-15] Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
Ding Dong! The Sheik is dead. Which old Sheik? The Wicked Sheik!
Ding Dong! The Wicked Sheik is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Sheik is dead. He's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Sheik is dead!
Mayor
As Mayor of the Bahgdad City, In the County of the Land of Iraq, I welcome you most regally.
Barrister
But we've got to verify it legally, to see
Mayor
To see?
Barrister
If he
Mayor
If he?
Barrister
Is morally, ethic'lly
Father No.1
Spiritually, physically
Father No. 2
Positively, absolutely
Munchkins
Undeniably and reliably Dead
Coroner
As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined him.
And he's not only merely dead, he's really most sincerely dead.
Mayor
Then this is a day of Independence For all the Iraqi's and their descendants
Barrister
If any.
Mayor
Yes, let the joyous news be spread The wicked al Zarkawi at last is dead!
Last edited by Darth_Fleder (2006-06-09 09:25:20)
Wtf! roflmao!!!acidkiller187 wrote:
If I was an Iraqi citizen and this dude Musab al-Zarqawi just survived two five hundred pound bombs I would jump through mother #@%$ ing fire hoops naked with a stick up my ass if this dude told me to! Shit no wonder why these people are scared. This dude must be hiding some serious kryptonite up his ass![ I mean was]
And as for the collateral damage some hearts are bleeding for....
...Revising what military officials said Thursday, Caldwell said it now appears there was no child among those killed in the bombing. He cautioned that some facts were still being sorted out...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198850,00.html
...Revising what military officials said Thursday, Caldwell said it now appears there was no child among those killed in the bombing. He cautioned that some facts were still being sorted out...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198850,00.html
Really, truly and desperately wrong. Show me ONE Special Ops troops (for that matter, show me ANY infantryman) who won't do any planning whatsoever before a mission...good luck though, you will need a medium.Bubbalo wrote:
No, I haven't. Really good troops have the ability to go at a moments notice.whittsend wrote:
You have just demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what I said. Deliberate? Likely.
Here's the problem: You THINK you know about war, fighting and the way Military operations work. But you don't. Worse, when someone who DOES know TELLS you, you argue about it. Take this opportunity to learn something. I was in the Army for 12 years, and I have been deployed to a combat zone three times, I suspect my insight on the subject is a bit more informed than yours.
Frankly, I don't believe you. What part of 'Redwhite&blue' are we expected to see differentiate the type of person you describe from a simple patriotic American? Nothing inherent in the phrase does so, therefore it is offensive. Simply put, your (poor) justification is like that of a bigot who says, "I only use the word 'nigger' to refer to black people who talk and dress in a certain way." Regardless of whether it is true or not, their use of the term is offensive to all black people.PekkaA wrote:
This is what I meant by people twisting my words. And yes, I did use term redwhite&blue as a synonym for uber-nationalist warhogs intentionally. I didn't mean americans generally.
I am TELLING YOU, as an American, your use of the term 'redwhite&blue' to refer to people in a negative way is offensive. You can say it isn't, but that isn't going to stop Americans from taking offensive. You can, of course, tell me to get stuffed, and continue to use it; but that will simply prove my initial point, and show that I was correctly interpreting your use of the term all along.
This is like talking to a wall. You make conlusions from my posts that suit your needs, and when I try to correct them you say I'm a liar...
Didn't I just tell you that I USED WORD INTENTIONALLY, and it was meant to offend A CERTAIN GROUP of americans, not all of you.whittsend wrote:
You can say it isn't, but that isn't going to stop Americans from taking offensive.
whittsend wrote:
I am TELLING YOU, as an American, your use of the term 'redwhite&blue' to refer to people in a negative way is offensive. You can say it isn't, but that isn't going to stop Americans from taking offensive.
Don't you think these two sentences of yours are a bit out of tune with each other? I mean, why do you have right to assume what all americans think of my use of words?whittsend wrote:
Treat them as individuals with their own opinions
PekkaA: I'll make this simple for you: Your use of the term 'redwhite&blue' to refer to ANY American is demeaning and offensive. You can stop, or not. Your choice will demonstrate the type of person you are.
He wasn't talking about any American he was talking about a certain type of American, and unless you are that type that term shouldn't be offensive to you.whittsend wrote:
PekkaA: I'll make this simple for you: Your use of the term 'redwhite&blue' to refer to ANY American is demeaning and offensive. You can stop, or not. Your choice will demonstrate the type of person you are.
To anyone else who thinks one man dying solves anything your all crazy.We will never beat terrorism with the use of force.
sundiver wrote:
He wasn't talking about any American he was talking about a certain type of American, and unless you are that type that term shouldn't be offensive to you.
All Americans have the 'red, white and blue' in common. For him to use it as a pejoritive, as he explicitly stated he does, is offensive. For him to use it at all in the context of an adversarial discussion, is demeaning, and that is also offensive.whittsend wrote:
Simply put, your (poor) justification is like that of a bigot who says, "I only use the word 'nigger' to refer to black people who talk and dress in a certain way." Regardless of whether it is true or not, their use of the term is offensive to all black people.
Do you suggest flowers?sundiver wrote:
We will never beat terrorism with the use of force.
Last edited by whittsend (2006-06-09 11:50:06)
I give up. You had the last words.
Couldn't have said it better myself.xXSarnathXx wrote:
still tho, a shame people are actually celebrating another humans death
On a side note, how much blood (US/Iraq/Afghanistan/Other) does Bush have on his hands?
That's not what I'm after, unless it means you are going to quit making sweeping generalizations about Americans and start dealing with people on their own merits.PekkaA wrote:
I give up. You had the last words.
Are you joking? This 'human' has personally beheaded bound and tied captives with a dull knife.Point&Shoot wrote:
Couldn't have said it better myself.xXSarnathXx wrote:
still tho, a shame people are actually celebrating another humans death
U.S. officials believe that Zarqawi trained others in the use of poison (ricin[19]) for possible attacks in Europe, ran a "terrorist haven" in Kurdish northern Iraq, and organized the bombing of a Baghdad hotel.
According to suspects arrested in Turkey, Zarqawi sent them to Istanbul to organize an attack on a NATO summit there on June 28 or June 29 of 2004.
United States officials blame Zarqawi for over 700 killings in Iraq during the invasion, mostly from bombings.
According to the United States State Department, Zarqawi is responsible for the Canal Hotel bombing of the United Nations Headquarters in Iraq on August 19, 2003. This attack killed twenty-two people, including the United Nations secretary general's special Iraqi envoy Sergio Vieira de Mello.[20]
Zarqawi is believed by the former Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq to have written an intercepted letter to the al-Qaeda leadership in February 2004 on the progress of the "Iraqi jihad." Many observers do not believe that Zarqawi wrote the letter.
In 2004 Zarqawi alledgedly personally beheaded the British hostage Ken Bigley.
On July 11, 2004, a group reportedly led by Zarqawi, claimed responsibility for a July 8 mortar attack in Samarra, Iraq. Five American soldiers and one Iraqi soldier were killed.
Believed to have coordinated the infamous second battle of "Al Fallujah" (Operation Phantom Fury/Operation Al Fajr) in November 2004, fought in the battle himself, then slipped away from coalition forces.
Jordan accuses Zarqawi of plotting to release a chemical cloud in Amman. Men were arrested in Amman who purportedly were planning to release the chemical attack. He was convicted in absentia on March 20, 2005, and sentenced to fifteen years in prison in addition to his two death sentences for earlier crimes in Jordan.
Zarqawi is believed to have masterminded the 2005 bombings in Amman that killed about seventy people in three hotels.
You bet we are celebrating the death of this monster....the real shame is that there are people here who feel badly about his death.
Last edited by Darth_Fleder (2006-06-09 12:41:47)