BF2S Forums I like to say something about the air combat in 1.3.

Absinthe wrote:

Yes.
Air Combat has never been better.

Though, when I\'m using the F35 I rarely get hit by AA. I release the flares about 1-2 seconds after being locked upon.

My tactics for avoiding, and return to kill those damn AA sites :

1) After boarding the plane, I make a complete \"go around\" around the entire island, usually diving at the end near the airfield to elliminate some pilots trying to take off, or raiding the entire r/w strip. Players tend to walk on the r/w ! pay attention closer next run.

2) Return for a flyby on the carrier.

3) allign perfectly over the island\'s left/right shoulder, CRUISING (450-500) at 110-160. When I recieve a locked-upon warning signal, on the spot - I make a SHARP 90 degrees pull, using full Afterburner. It take about 2 seconds to reach alt. of 300+. At that time I release the flares. When reaching alt. of 500+ I perform a negative dive, switch to A/G missiles to pinpoint the AA site, cut the throttle to idle and spray HELL all over the place. It usually takes 1 second of continues fire to elinimate the threat.

4) pull out of the dive at round alt. 110~, to continue the s&d ground targets.

5) goto \"2\"

Yeah its not too difficult to avoid ground AA with the F35B, but if you get a J10 behind you who even has a little skill, and your screwed.

Did anyone even read my post?

dogfighting is gone

GONE!!!

Since 1.2, there are no more fights with guns. It's all missles, and pilots stop chasing you when they run out.

In 1.12 and earlier, you were FORCED to use guns. you had no choice but to properly learn how to fly and dogfight before being able to shoot people down.

This is what made it so great. On every server running a jet map you could have a dogfight, and with a bit of luck meet another skilled pilot and spend the entire round chasing each other. THAT was fun.

Nowadays, every fight I've seen between average pilots barely lasts 30 seconds and is merely a fight with missles. The J-10 can barely be hit by missles, but people still try. The F-18 cannot be hit by missles with one simple maneauvre, but people still do. The MiG-29 turns faster than the F-18 and therefore a skilled pilot will get outside of an F-18's lock on zone very quickly, but yet time after time i see the MiG get shot down.

But still, people use missles only.

It's not fun. 1.2 and onwards have managed to eliminate dogfighting almost completely.

And AA is still useless as ever if the pilot knows what he's doing.

Last edited by SargeV1.4 (2006-06-29 05:27:53)

|60|Cobalt wrote:

LivelyToaster wrote:

I think they need to make flying harder. As it stands now I can get in a plane and get 15 - 20 kills without dying and I absolutely suck at flying. Usually my death is from hitting a tree or something noobish like that.

your stats say something different 

Aviator      09:02:15      353      181      2.2486      54

Well those aren't horrible, he doesn't crash every three seconds.

But yes, 15-20 is a little excessive. Maybe on your good days toaster.

I just do a flip and come strait down on top of the guys head with the MG. That is, after avoiding the missles.

I can just say that the worst jet is eurofighter! it moves like a retarded moron and it can just baserape but nothing. luckily, it is hard to destroy it with missiles.

Defiance wrote:

|60|Cobalt wrote:

LivelyToaster wrote:

I think they need to make flying harder. As it stands now I can get in a plane and get 15 - 20 kills without dying and I absolutely suck at flying. Usually my death is from hitting a tree or something noobish like that.

your stats say something different 

Aviator      09:02:15      353      181      2.2486      54

Well those aren't horrible, he doesn't crash every three seconds.

But yes, 15-20 is a little excessive. Maybe on your good days toaster.

True but i think he has a point. I don't fly much at all and my ratio is crap (3.29, mostly from playing AF). I think i'm gonna start Jet whoring in vanilla and see how long it takes me to get my ratio over that of my heli ratio I suspect it won't be hard but we'll see

And looking at sarge\\\'s K : D, he obviously isnt one of these :p

Last edited by BUDFORCE (2006-06-29 05:26:21)

the F-18 is really hard to shoot down in a MiG witha good pilot cause u can just turn and bank hard its like a j-10, j-10's can easily be shot down in a F-35 if u know the secret these are best jets in order anyway the F-35 is the best jet in the world and its the worst in this game please make the F-35 like the j-10 and nerf the j-10 plz. The one thing is to not be found first in an F-35 cause u cant shake missles well with the hot spot the size of the sun

1.J-10
2.F-18
3.F-35
4.MiG-29
5.Eurofighter Typhoon

Last edited by †[AøT]§tèálth† (2006-06-29 07:14:54)

TrueArchon wrote:

I really don't have a lot of complaints with air combat now (despite my worst enemies always being bomber pilots... hehehe).  However, if there is one thing I'd like to see changed is:

Attack chopper pilots and gunners should be married to their seats when they leave the ground.  There are three reasons that I can think of off the top of my head.  One, solo pilot/TV missile players.  I'll admit that it takes considerable skill to do this, but it's kinda cheesy, and not very team oriented.  Two, sniping out the pilot with the .50 cal.  There's nothing more frustrating than sniping a pilot out of a spawn-camping chopper, and then watching the gunner take control and fly back to base to pick up the pilot again (so that they can come back and spawn-camp again).  Three, it's just not very realistic, even for a game.

SargeV1.4 wrote:

Did anyone even read my post?

dogfighting is gone

GONE!!!

Since 1.2, there are no more fights with guns. It's all missles, and pilots stop chasing you when they run out.

In 1.12 and earlier, you were FORCED to use guns. you had no either choice but to properly learn how to fly and dogfight before being able to shoot people down.

This is what made it so great. On every server running a jet map you could have a dogfight, and with a bit of luck meet another skilled pilot and spend the entire round chasing each other. THAT was fun.

Nowadays, every fight I've seen between average pilots barely lasts 30 seconds and is merely a fight with missles. The J-10 can barely be hit by missles, but people still try. The F-18 cannot be hit by missles with one simple maneauvre, but people still do. The MiG-29 turns faster than the F-18 and therefore a skilled pilot will get outside of an F-18's lock on zone very quickly, but yet time after time i see the MiG get shot down.

But still, people use missles only.

It's not fun. 1.2 and onwards have managed to eliminate dogfighting almost completely.

And AA is still useless as ever if the pilot knows what he's doing.

I don't know, but I still use guns quite a lot.  Mainly because if I switch to bombs, the enemy pilot doesn't get that warning buzzer when I'm on his six.  Also, as you mentioned, missiles really aren't that reliable.  However, I'm gonna take to heart your belief, just from the sheer amount of expertise that you have as an aviator.

Besides, I agree with you that dogfighting is all but extint in the game.  However, I lean that way because most aviators I run into aren't dogfighting each other in the air, but are instead bombing the hell out of enemy vehicles, and only giving token notice to the other enemy aircraft or choppers.

It's one of those frustrating things about getting bombed time and time again, and finding that your fighters aren't out to help you as a teammate, but to rack as many kills as possible.

However, if there is a pilot that is keeping the bombers/choppers from annihilating the team, I definitely notice, and appreciate it!!

You've got a point. But you need to consider a few things:
1) Most people ACTUALLY fly using K/B+Mouse, NOT joy. These people have a MUCH harder time using the MG because they need a higher Yaw/Pitch in order to make turns even REMOTELY close to what the joy flyers do. This adversely affects their ability to acurately aim the MG at a non stationary target. So K/B vs joy pilots, the joy pilot has a HUGE advantage with guns, this means more poeple try for missile locks.
2) Most people when talking about "dogfighting" thinks that wake is the ONLY map that has jets in it. However, wake has NO mobile AA, and it's the J10 vs- the F35. So ofcourse the F35 pilots will get owned in a hurry (as per all the other posts about the F35, aka "the flying coffin"), and the J10 "only" has to contentd with one AA site and the essex AA guns. Easily avoided if you're a TRUE dogfighter, and not a spawnraper.
3) A LOT of pilots think that "skill" is about being able to spawn rape the fastest. Sure it might be nice for your score to rake up 30-40 kills by bombing an uncap. But how much FUN do those pilots have ? And how frequently do they simply put their tails between their legs and run when you point a missile at them ?
4) On maps with bombers, I've RARELY seen anyone bother to take out the enemy fighter if he can get a decent shot at the enemy bomber. It's sad but true. Again many people go for the easy kills and the score, not the fun or the challenge.

Personally, I ONLY go for non flying targets if it's an AA aiming at me, or I need to defend a flag. Spawnraping and bombing the crap out of your enemy when he basically has little or no chance of fighting back just isn't that much fun IMO. So yeah I have a really shitty score when it comes to flying jets, but 2/3rds of my kills are air assets... So I had FUN when getting those few kills I have.

I am pretty happy with the air battles now adays. If they just balance the Jets against eachother a little more it would be perfect.

Krappyappy wrote:

[TP~Bravo]Wiggy wrote:

I love to go the old style bomb mode and shoot them down.. but just so annoying nowadays with so many noobs that just bail after they realise there being shot down.. so have to resort to missiles sometimes

how is it noobish to bail out when you know you're about to die? only noobs willingly die and give the enemy points. l33t players try to survive.

Theres no point in even getting in the jet if you dont intend on helping your team, I.e Actually taking down the enemy, offering air support. Having enemies lingering around in the sea just makes the game last longer