Why do some idiots think that they can fly or drive a tank, or hell, fight at all and be an effective commander. Nothing ticks me off more than to see the commander flying. Calling for UAV, supplies, or a vehicle and getting no response and never seeing any UAV active or any spots because he's tryin to build up a big score for the double bonus just pisses me off. But A commander doesn't get any points for anything except commanding, right? No points for kills, heals, repair, anything? I was under the impression that a commanders score is derived from how well his team does and not kills, etc. I've only got about 14 hrs as a commander (1804 prs) which I think is decent. I'm not a dink and I listen for who to help and give UAV and supplies where it's gonna do the most good. My best game I never died and I NEVER got my nose out of the commander screen. I've been in alot of games where the commander made the difference between winning and losing. Idiots.
you right but when your team is full of idiots and dont want to capture a empty flag sometime i choose to grab a buggy and drive off to capture i get very irritated when i tall squad leaders that a flag is empty and they still dont answer my call. but you know sometimes the commander has to capture a flag and make the difference there
sometimes u just got to go out and do the job yourself when u are a commenderthemanmythlegend wrote:
you right but when your team is full of idiots and dont want to capture a empty flag sometime i choose to grab a buggy and drive off to capture i get very irritated when i tall squad leaders that a flag is empty and they still dont answer my call. but you know sometimes the commander has to capture a flag and make the difference there
Amen!
What drives me nuts is when I'm spotting enemy infantry on our runway, and my troops just ignore me to carry on waiting for their damned jet to be delivered. So they get killed, over and over again. In the end, I have to wade in and kill the GDMFSOB myself. Total waste of a commander to leave him to guard the asset base by himself. Jet whores are so goddamned fixated on the gap where their big toy will appear.
it'd be nice, if some way.. some how.. keep in mind this would be to enforce teamwork, as when you are a commander and you tell squad 1 to attack a flag and the squad leader tells you no way in hell, that he recieves negative points, and to add to this seems alittle impossible but would be nice, if you tell a squad to attack and capture a flag, he says "okay" but continues to spawncamp at hotel that he also recieves negative points, untill he makes an attempt to accomplish your orders. Now on the plus side when you say okiedokie to a commanders orders and successfully complete said mission that you recieve extra points for accomplishing the mission. More or Less a Reward/Punish System..Unlikely yes, near impossible to code? probably. Will smacktards abuse this? most likely.. just my 2 cents..
well its good then it aint. for one i receive all kinds of crazy orders. lets say im in the south gas station in mashtuur and the commander gives me an order to attack the north gas station. come on choose a closer squad im going to say no then.
Nice thought, but what about the times you get commanders who don't have a clue and try to send you either to the far end of the map when closer and more useful (armour, helis etc) flags are much closer and empty of enemy, or to the one flag where he entire enemy team has spawned. Other gems include "Repair here" when there's no engineers in my squad, and "Set demlitions here" when I have no spec ops with me.[1FR]S3v3N wrote:
it'd be nice, if some way.. some how.. keep in mind this would be to enforce teamwork, as when you are a commander and you tell squad 1 to attack a flag and the squad leader tells you no way in hell, that he recieves negative points, and to add to this seems alittle impossible but would be nice, if you tell a squad to attack and capture a flag, he says "okay" but continues to spawncamp at hotel that he also recieves negative points, untill he makes an attempt to accomplish your orders. Now on the plus side when you say okiedokie to a commanders orders and successfully complete said mission that you recieve extra points for accomplishing the mission. More or Less a Reward/Punish System..Unlikely yes, near impossible to code? probably. Will smacktards abuse this? most likely.. just my 2 cents..
If I get an order like that I will feel no guilt whatsoever about saying no to the order and giving my own.
Also, what if you agree to an order, but get continually spawn raped before you can even attempt the mission. You start losing points because you've not completed the mission, but it's hardly your fault.
Wraith
i usually stay in uncap as engineer incase i need to repair arty or whatever, but yea combat commanders FTL
last night road rage . 6 people per side i played rambo commander got 33 points won the round . the thing is if i had been in a squad i would have got 70 to 80 points . i had the most flag caps and cap assists + repairs . i think when population is small you can do your self out of points as commander . i was expecting my legion of merit , but maybe you cant get it as commander , does any one know ?
btw i think midnight sun is the best map ever
i hate A10s . i shot one down last night with tunguska
harvest suck s big time i just cant do it
sorry if the map is full i hide as commander and do my job , only if its less than 10 per side do i join in
btw i think midnight sun is the best map ever
i hate A10s . i shot one down last night with tunguska
harvest suck s big time i just cant do it
sorry if the map is full i hide as commander and do my job , only if its less than 10 per side do i join in
Last edited by GAIKIWARRIOR (2006-07-03 21:24:25)
I tend to hate commanders who don't seem to realize that artillery is actually the LEAST useful of their abilities, and if they'd give squads UAV and orders, they wouldn't have to arty strike 1 or 2 people and cause infantry to lose time on the way to capture flags because they have to wait for the strike that kills as many of them as it does us.
well yea when its a small game its not bad to go out and fightGAIKIWARRIOR wrote:
last night road rage . 6 people per side i played rambo commander got 33 points won the round . the thing is if i had been in a squad i would have got 70 to 80 points . i had the most flag caps and cap assists + repairs . i think when population is small you can do your self out of points as commander . i was expecting my legion of merit , but maybe you cant get it as commander , does any one know ?
btw i think midnight sun is the best map ever
i hate A10s . i shot one down last night with tunguska
harvest suck s big time i just cant do it
sorry if the map is full i hide as commander and do my job , only if its less than 10 per side do i join in
btw the A10 is in the game?
In a game under around 10 or 12 per side the Commander is going to need to move around there is no way around it. He represents 10% of the teams ground firepower and can't make up for it using arty. So unless the other team always stays in a gaggle the CO needs to move. Mostly defensively but still move none the less.
When you get into larger games staying in the CMode is usually best. The only problem is CO's need to compensate for team gaps. The EA ROE contradicts itself when it says 'Don't do anything to hurt your team' and 'commanders stay out of vehicles'. Sometimes you need to grab a vehicle to stop a base raid or repair an asset or friendly tank nearby.
There are nono's though, when commanding I always love to see the other team complaining that their CO is flying or something lol I know pwnage is close at hand when a commander has gone renegade and left his team deaf, dumb and blind for 5-10 minutes...
One thing seems clear to me. Had EA/Dice intended Commanders not to fly or use other vehicles they would have simply coded it into the game. A Command Imperative is to be where you can best influence the battle and that is NOT always in the CMode and NOT always dismounted.
I think alot more thought into imporving teamwork payoffs is in order. My guess is 50-60% of the BF2 players don't get it at all and think that a high Kill ratio is enough to do their share in team effort. I have tracked one server for 3 weeks and over 75% of the time the winning team had the FEWEST Lone Wolves. Cutting Team Points in half for two minutes after a refused order might help but there are people who would give stupid orders to punish someone they didn't like. Adding team points as an incentive might improve it. Making Lone Wolves earn 20% fewer team points could boost teamwork. Letting Commanders form squads by assigning Lone Wolves after 4 minutes into the round could simulate a more realistic process as it is the Chain of Command that assigns soldiers to squads in military units - that might be too realistic for some. All these ideas have flaws depending on which side of the teamwork fence you are on.
lol ain't this game great???
Good Luck and Have Fun
When you get into larger games staying in the CMode is usually best. The only problem is CO's need to compensate for team gaps. The EA ROE contradicts itself when it says 'Don't do anything to hurt your team' and 'commanders stay out of vehicles'. Sometimes you need to grab a vehicle to stop a base raid or repair an asset or friendly tank nearby.
There are nono's though, when commanding I always love to see the other team complaining that their CO is flying or something lol I know pwnage is close at hand when a commander has gone renegade and left his team deaf, dumb and blind for 5-10 minutes...
One thing seems clear to me. Had EA/Dice intended Commanders not to fly or use other vehicles they would have simply coded it into the game. A Command Imperative is to be where you can best influence the battle and that is NOT always in the CMode and NOT always dismounted.
I think alot more thought into imporving teamwork payoffs is in order. My guess is 50-60% of the BF2 players don't get it at all and think that a high Kill ratio is enough to do their share in team effort. I have tracked one server for 3 weeks and over 75% of the time the winning team had the FEWEST Lone Wolves. Cutting Team Points in half for two minutes after a refused order might help but there are people who would give stupid orders to punish someone they didn't like. Adding team points as an incentive might improve it. Making Lone Wolves earn 20% fewer team points could boost teamwork. Letting Commanders form squads by assigning Lone Wolves after 4 minutes into the round could simulate a more realistic process as it is the Chain of Command that assigns soldiers to squads in military units - that might be too realistic for some. All these ideas have flaws depending on which side of the teamwork fence you are on.
lol ain't this game great???
Good Luck and Have Fun
Last edited by OpsChief (2006-07-04 09:53:19)
In the Armored Fury pack, the A10 is selectable.AK5489 wrote:
well yea when its a small game its not bad to go out and fightGAIKIWARRIOR wrote:
last night road rage . 6 people per side i played rambo commander got 33 points won the round . the thing is if i had been in a squad i would have got 70 to 80 points . i had the most flag caps and cap assists + repairs . i think when population is small you can do your self out of points as commander . i was expecting my legion of merit , but maybe you cant get it as commander , does any one know ?
btw i think midnight sun is the best map ever
i hate A10s . i shot one down last night with tunguska
harvest suck s big time i just cant do it
sorry if the map is full i hide as commander and do my job , only if its less than 10 per side do i join in
btw the A10 is in the game?
Well, the thing is that even if YOU aren't close to the flag he's asking you to take.. maybe some of your squad members are, and THAT's why he's giving the order to attack WAY off base... Sure it would be nice if all Squaddies always spawned on their SL, and it would be even nicer if the SLs wouldn't bunch together all the time. But hey.. it's TOUGH being the commander also, you know ?Wraith wrote:
Nice thought, but what about the times you get commanders who don't have a clue and try to send you either to the far end of the map when closer and more useful (armour, helis etc) flags are much closer and empty of enemy, or to the one flag where he entire enemy team has spawned. Other gems include "Repair here" when there's no engineers in my squad, and "Set demlitions here" when I have no spec ops with me.
If I get an order like that I will feel no guilt whatsoever about saying no to the order and giving my own.
Also, what if you agree to an order, but get continually spawn raped before you can even attempt the mission. You start losing points because you've not completed the mission, but it's hardly your fault.
Wraith
As for the "set demolitions here". I give that order once in a while, becuase there WAS a guy in the squad who was engy or spec ops earlier. On eks. Karkand, it's VERY nice to blow up the bridge and then have C4 or mines at the only other viable/fast exit/entry points for the enemy cars/armor. And yet, almost noone follows the orders. In point of fact, most SLs seems determined that it's THEIR task to do the work ordered, not their entire squads task. It's frustrating to be the commander, you know ?
Then there's the jet/helo whores that everyone hates who just stand around waintig to get knocked off because "hey, I'm waiting for jet, ya' kno'" and forcing the commadner to blow an arty strike on a SINGLE sniper 5 meters from a cluster of 7 people waiting for a piece of hardware to spawn. and NONE of them will even LOOK in the snipers direction because "hey, I'm waiting for jet, ya' kno'". It's REALLY frustrating to be the commander, you know ?
There there's the squads that will just go ahead and rape whatever flag they're at because nothing really usefull spawns there anyway, and they'd rather get the extra kill/get killed than TAKE THE F***IN' FLAG AS ORDERED.... It's VERY frustrating being the commander, You know ?
And there's even the times when you sit at a flag with 10 people spawning around you. You spot an enemy tank, or worse.. INFANTRY strolling up to the flag. "enemy infantry" you scream. "defend this position" you order the troops about 10 meters from the enemy... They just wait for the helo to spawn and get shot to pieces. Then the infantry walks over to the nearby tank, takes it and starts spawnraping. "Enemy armor" you scream, giving the planes attack orders. "Defend this position" you order the remaining 5-6 guys in the area. Two starts running away, another two grab a car and drive off getting shot by the armor, one asks for a supply drop on the enemy armor. The last one gets out a couple of grenades to get the armors attention. Yay..... It's REALLY VERY frustrating being the commander, you know ?
For these reasons I can't really blame commanders who take an active role in defending flags, I do that myself because I rarely if EVER can trust my team mates to:
1) Follow orders
2) Act intelligently
3) Defend flags
4) Capture flags
5) Play for the win rather than the kills
It's darned ANNOYING to be the commander, you know ?
Agree with your post 100%. The last time I commanded as MEC on Karkand I started as Spec Ops to blow the bridge. The tank driver for our side was an engineer...but refused to go around and he kept repeatedly repairing the damn bridge, despite initially polite explanations...that degenerated into "If you fix that effing bridge again..." followed by varioius threats of bodily harm. My clanmates were laughing at this asshat who seemingly had no grasp whatsoever of strategy/defense.Twist wrote:
As for the "set demolitions here". I give that order once in a while, becuase there WAS a guy in the squad who was engy or spec ops earlier. On eks. Karkand, it's VERY nice to blow up the bridge and then have C4 or mines at the only other viable/fast exit/entry points for the enemy cars/armor. And yet, almost noone follows the orders. In point of fact, most SLs seems determined that it's THEIR task to do the work ordered, not their entire squads task. It's frustrating to be the commander, you know ?
It is VERY frustrating to command with idiots like that...
Last edited by Dr0pped (2006-07-05 09:23:22)
Twist are you playing with a clan or just trying your luck on a pub server? lol #2) above, remember everyone has an opinion so "intelligence" is like an amoeba there is no standard measurement. Might as well cross that off but the rest are right on.Twist wrote:
It's REALLY VERY frustrating being the commander, you know ?
For these reasons I can't really blame commanders who take an active role in defending flags, I do that myself because I rarely if EVER can trust my team mates to:
1) Follow orders
2) Act intelligently
3) Defend flags
4) Capture flags
5) Play for the win rather than the kills
I play on a server where 3 out of 4 orders are followed but it took drastic measure to get it done. After a year of trying our luck on various pub and clan servers with too many fences around spawnpoints we rented our own BF2 ranked server and focussed on the orginal BF2 design- a strategic shooter: the obvious rules only = check your asshat at the door, respect others, skill or be pwned (EA ROE is followed but no added rules that favor a particular group).
We still have some of the people who only know BF2 as the 6 square blocks surrounding the Karkand Hilton but they die a whiny death. Most are clans or friends playing together on the same team and we actually have games where there are NO LONE WOLVES!!! yep, even the snipers know they need to team up to survive...nuthin like a pair of snipers working over the enemy from distances beyond sound.
Last edited by OpsChief (2006-07-05 16:14:35)
while the game was quite new..i tried to command and fly..in chopper also jets...i was successful..but its unnecessary...but... a commander gets points for kills but not for teamwork...and if the commander wants to be active..like me..^^...he should take his mate to skype,TS etc...and be the gunner of an attack chopper..very effective...but more not...with the new improved AA..NO to flying...gunner of an bomber oder maybe an chopper...if they comunicate...
This is possible, Fragger, but if ALL else is EQUAL the flying commander will lose large battles most of the time. I like nothing better that to see eneym text complaining their CO is flying. It means we are going to win. What you say about commo is 100% true.jOiNt_frAGGeR wrote:
while the game was quite new..i tried to command and fly..in chopper also jets...i was successful..but its unnecessary...but... a commander gets points for kills but not for teamwork...and if the commander wants to be active..like me..^^...he should take his mate to skype,TS etc...and be the gunner of an attack chopper..very effective...but more not...with the new improved AA..NO to flying...gunner of an bomber oder maybe an chopper...if they comunicate...
Commanding is the only pure teamwork focussed role in the game and they show it by not giving points for it. Selfless sacrifice for the good of the team. The best CO will stay in the Mode and introduce himself to the enemy as thier new god emperor, bow down noobs and feel the wrath of my artillery.
Unfortunately I ALWAYS play pub servers... I like the action. Most clan/private servers etc. are either filled with people who whine and bitch if you take "their hardware" (seeing as they pay for the server, some people thinks this means they get to decide who drives what hardware). And even if I find a GOOD one, it's either with monster ping or is a 16/24/32 player only, or at least that the max number I ever see ON the server at any given time... I like the 64 player maps because I feel I have "graduated" from the 16 player small maps to some real "strategic shooting" as you say, and the level of action on a large server makes me feel all the more proud of a good score than a "high scoring" server does, plus the attention you need to survive with 32 opponents is a rush in itself... However, as you may have noticed from my initial post, I AM really frustrated about commanding for nitwits. But getting that WCR is a b***h ! And commanding is now needed to get it.
Personally, I ALWAYS join or create a squad (unless I encounter the squad bug), and I follow any reasonable order given (though "place mines here" when I'm in a jet and the only guy in my squad seems somewhat unrealistic). As a somewhat experienced commander, I know the frustration of people not following orders or not even trying to. So I will also ALWAYS initially attempt to follow any order given to me. However, a commander who will not give me UAV support or even indicate that a flag is clear when he orders me to attack it will make me suspicious. A second similar order without any support from the commander, and me being gunned down by a wad of defenders, will usually lead me to believe he's just sending a squad to each flag... Not very practical for all intents and purposes, I'm good, but not THAT good. If you happen to HAVE a squad that will follow orders, you HAVE to use that to gain a strategic advantage, noone seems to notice the difference it can make to actually HAVE that one squad that can stop the bleeding by taking that one undefended flag, mine strategic postions instead of running at tanks with the AT mine out hoping for the best, laying down covering fiire for a larger assault, outflanking the enemy, etc. etc.
A LOT of commanders are ALSO nitwits who doesnt CARE about the win (though with the x2 bonus, you'd think that they would), but just wants to rack up kills for their score. Personally, if I'm f.ex. China CMDR on Dalian or Wake and we have all flags, I will NOT arty the carrier even if the server allows it (unless we're WAY behind on tickets), because any kill my TEAM gets I get part of the score as CMDR... The arty kills means less points scored for my team, so why SHOULD I use the arty, after all, they're bleeding tickets anyway, and we have them cornered, so why not get the most points out of the experience ?
IMO Arty should be used to kill off large groups threatening to take over a vital position, defend a flag, or clear a path to TAKE an enemy fortified position. I understand why it's tempting to take out a group of 10-15 enemies, but if your team has the upper hand (ie two APCs and 5 inf against 10-15 inf WILL win the day in reasonably good terrain), then keep your hands off that fire button, and lay down the UAV instead. Arty should not be used as a way to improove on the CMDRs killscore. For this reason I often let the arty rest for long periods as CMDR.... Noone seems to grasp the concept of commander scoring it seems.
So yeah. I sympathize with the original poster, but there are a LOT more bad players out there than there are bad commanders. After all, on large servers you need a good rank to even get considered for commanding, and you wont get that by being a bad player.
Personally, I ALWAYS join or create a squad (unless I encounter the squad bug), and I follow any reasonable order given (though "place mines here" when I'm in a jet and the only guy in my squad seems somewhat unrealistic). As a somewhat experienced commander, I know the frustration of people not following orders or not even trying to. So I will also ALWAYS initially attempt to follow any order given to me. However, a commander who will not give me UAV support or even indicate that a flag is clear when he orders me to attack it will make me suspicious. A second similar order without any support from the commander, and me being gunned down by a wad of defenders, will usually lead me to believe he's just sending a squad to each flag... Not very practical for all intents and purposes, I'm good, but not THAT good. If you happen to HAVE a squad that will follow orders, you HAVE to use that to gain a strategic advantage, noone seems to notice the difference it can make to actually HAVE that one squad that can stop the bleeding by taking that one undefended flag, mine strategic postions instead of running at tanks with the AT mine out hoping for the best, laying down covering fiire for a larger assault, outflanking the enemy, etc. etc.
A LOT of commanders are ALSO nitwits who doesnt CARE about the win (though with the x2 bonus, you'd think that they would), but just wants to rack up kills for their score. Personally, if I'm f.ex. China CMDR on Dalian or Wake and we have all flags, I will NOT arty the carrier even if the server allows it (unless we're WAY behind on tickets), because any kill my TEAM gets I get part of the score as CMDR... The arty kills means less points scored for my team, so why SHOULD I use the arty, after all, they're bleeding tickets anyway, and we have them cornered, so why not get the most points out of the experience ?
IMO Arty should be used to kill off large groups threatening to take over a vital position, defend a flag, or clear a path to TAKE an enemy fortified position. I understand why it's tempting to take out a group of 10-15 enemies, but if your team has the upper hand (ie two APCs and 5 inf against 10-15 inf WILL win the day in reasonably good terrain), then keep your hands off that fire button, and lay down the UAV instead. Arty should not be used as a way to improove on the CMDRs killscore. For this reason I often let the arty rest for long periods as CMDR.... Noone seems to grasp the concept of commander scoring it seems.
So yeah. I sympathize with the original poster, but there are a LOT more bad players out there than there are bad commanders. After all, on large servers you need a good rank to even get considered for commanding, and you wont get that by being a bad player.
play wake much?Arkanon wrote:
What drives me nuts is when I'm spotting enemy infantry on our runway, and my troops just ignore me to carry on waiting for their damned jet to be delivered. So they get killed, over and over again. In the end, I have to wade in and kill the GDMFSOB myself. Total waste of a commander to leave him to guard the asset base by himself. Jet whores are so goddamned fixated on the gap where their big toy will appear.
Your gonna hate me then*itchburner wrote:
Why do some idiots think that they can fly or drive a tank, or hell, fight at all and be an effective commander.