Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|7220
Remember those good ol' days before 1.2? Where dogfighting meant chasing another jet around the map, trying to gun him down? Man, that was so much fun. You could go any server with a jet map, start flying, and have a real dogfight with someone. With some luck you might met a similarly skilled pilot and you could spend half the round chasing each other. Lots of pilots actually knew what they were doing, checking their rear, getting both bombs on right on the turret of an enemy tank, and doing some good maneauvering.

Now compare that to aviation in BF2 post 1.2:

'Dogfights' between average players last about 20 seconds. People don't have a f*cking clue what they're doing, incapable of basic things such as landing, using guns, bombing within 15 meters of their target, or actually doing something else than constantly looping to lose their opponent. And of course, dogfights now are purely missles, and missles only.  To top it all off, one jet has become supreme to everything else, the almighty J-10. The majority of the time that you're flying a J-10, your opponent will be in an F-35b, the jet most succeptable to missles. Now maps like Wake Island, Dragon Valley, or Dalian Plant have become a game of 'kill as many unlucky soldiers on the carrier with my jet that cannot get shot down by 99% of all pilots'.
Any skill that pilots had before 1.2 seems to have dissapeared since then. As I said before, looping endlessly is all that people do to shake a jet. Oh, a few clever ones might have figured out that flying high gives them a speed boost. yay. They never check their six anymore either. Nor do they ever use bomb mode while flying, as why would you want to go away from your almighty missles? I can simply fly behind an enemy jet for the entire round, and they'd never notice.
And of course, the AA is still useless as ever. But, as was to be expected, pilots still get shot down regularly and call the AA overpowered. Do I need to explain this? I sure hope not.

Surely all the skill that was present before 1.2 can't have just dissapeared?

What the hell has happened to aviation since 1.2?!

ANOTHER COMMON MISCONCEPTION: THE MiG-29 AND THE F-18 ARE BALANCED.

NEIN. The MiG turns faster than the f-18, and in a fight between SKILLED pilots, the MiG pilot will win. Sure, the F-18 can dodge missles, but a good pilot in a MiG WON'T NEED TO

Last edited by SargeV1.4 (2006-07-19 11:21:01)

https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
Hurricane
Banned
+1,153|7197|Washington, DC

It went down the drain along with any other skill klled in 1.2 because of whining crying smurfs who couldn't learn how to use AA.

EDIT: As for the looping to try and avoid missiles, it's because people want to at least try to evade the missiles, even though they know that unless they're in a J-10 or Typhoon, a steady lockon and having no flares=death.

Last edited by ExecutionerStyle (2006-07-19 11:05:21)

Simon
basically
+838|7225|UK
Good post Sarge, most of that is true. Personally i would say the Mig V F3B Is slightly unbalanced say on Gulf because of the Stingers, AA etc, but that map is quite good for dogfighting, +1 on the Dalian and Dragon Valley comment.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7283
you mean 1.12.... 1.2 was the beginning of uber missiles post 1.12 would be better since it clears things up
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
0akleaves
Member
+183|7180|Newcastle UK
why does everybody think the j-10 is the best its the f-18.
You have to learn the rules of the game and then you have to play better than anyone else.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|7220

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

you mean 1.12.... 1.2 was the beginning of uber missiles post 1.12 would be better since it clears things up
It's perfectly clear.

Before 1.2 = good times
since 1.2 = bad times

your post actually makes no sense to me at all, imo

Evil-fruits|ST4R wrote:

why does everybody think the j-10 is the best its the f-18.
the j-10 turns faster than the f-18. 'nuff said.

Last edited by SargeV1.4 (2006-07-19 11:10:30)

https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
Simon
basically
+838|7225|UK

Evil-fruits|ST4R wrote:

why does everybody think the j-10 is the best its the f-18.
Wtf How?
Give reasons please.
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7410|Reykjavík, Iceland.
I'm still here

I agree, I loved dogfighting in pre 1.2, when I'm flying against F-35Bs with a J-10, out of courtesy, I never use my missiles, I chase him down and gun him.

Actually I do that with most of planes, it's just much more satisfying to kill someone that way, more personal.

I use Immelmanns a lot to evade, I even use inverted Immelmanns to confuse the enemy sometimes with great success
Oh, and I can bomb the crap out of shit with accuracy that makes tankers shiver, 2 years of BF1942 experience plus over a year to adapt to BF2 bombs.

Jets need to be balanced, the only maps with fair jet balancing are FuShe and Daqing, since J-10 and F-18 are both suberb. planes that evade 70% of all missiles with a little banking, so its fun to dogfight with those, rest is just
J-10 > F-35B
F-18 > Mig-29
Mig-29 > F35B

Don't nerf the J-10, un-nerf the F-35B and Mig-29!


btw. I want to see A2A missiles back to 1.12 style, but keep the AA missiles like this for the little scared kiddies who have no skill at all so they aren't crapping themselves in fear due to extremely skilled aces.

My 2cents

EDIT: Seeing the post above: The J-10 has a smaller turn radius, but the F-18 evades missiles better, they go up to it and then they turn instantly 90°

Last edited by PBAsydney (2006-07-19 11:16:20)

stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7287|California

i find the lack of skill fun. Some rounds i can get 30+ kills with just the cannons, and there are J-10s all crashing into trees and shit all around me
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7283
to sarge: my bad, its 2 am here and im half drunk half tired
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Reject_Wolf
Former Karkand Addict
+32|7150
I really like Operation Clean Sweep for dogfighting.  The fighters and bombers in that map are very equally balenced.  Hell the other day all four planes were dogfighting each other, but I stayed conservative and used my guns only then waited until they ran out of missiles and then I used mine. : )  Anyway, that is the only map where dogfighting is still alive.  In all the other maps, the J-10 rules making everythign not fun.  : (
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|7220

PBAsydney wrote:

Jets need to be balanced, the only maps with fair jet balancing are FuShe and Daqing, since J-10 and F-18 are both suberb. planes that evade 70% of all missiles with a little banking, so its fun to dogfight with those, rest is just
J-10 > F-35B
F-18 > Mig-29
Mig-29 > F35B
WRONG. WRONGER. WRONGEST. WRONGERERESTEST.

The MiG-29 is better than the F-18. WHY?! because it can turn faster. The f-18 may be able to dodge every missle, but when people try to pull that one on me I just laugh and gun them down mid-loop. When an F-18 tries to chase me, it doesn't stand a chance, because I'm already out of his sight after the first two corners, if he even got that far. However, because the J-10 is faster than both the f18 and the MiG, the F18 is better, due to its ability to dodge missles.

Don't nerf the J-10, un-nerf the F-35B and Mig-29!


btw. I want to see A2A missiles back to 1.12 style, but keep the AA missiles like this for the little scared kiddies who have no skill at all so they aren't crapping themselves in fear due to extremely skilled aces.

My 2cents
yeah.
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7287|California

wait, what about the Eurofighter - MiG - 29 lineup? thats actually a very decent dogfight
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|7220

stryyker wrote:

wait, what about the Eurofighter - MiG - 29 lineup? thats actually a very decent dogfight
tbh I've never flown a eurofighter. What are they like performance wise? do they both turn just as fast and have the same max speeds?
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7287|California

SargeV1.4 wrote:

stryyker wrote:

wait, what about the Eurofighter - MiG - 29 lineup? thats actually a very decent dogfight
tbh I've never flown a eurofighter. What are they like performance wise? do they both turn just as fast and have the same max speeds?
lets see, it flies alot slower, and it natrually tries to level out when you fly (into the ground), but other than that, the turns are good, and each plane kinda deflects missiles, so its prime gun territory
RDMC
Enemy Wheelbarrow Spotted..!!
+736|7132|Area 51
Meeeh actually, didn't fly much in 1.2, I think never
But what your saying,
J-10 and such, and flying in bomb mode, I guess in my near 50 flying hours, out of that I have flown 40 hours in bombing mode, I only switch to Air- to - air when I''m in a J-10, since air to air is only a means of saying ''hey over here''
And, I found out that steppin in a F35b doesn't immediatly mean death

Btw what ur saying about only loops to shake off airplanes, here's a new one

F35b wake island, going side ways with flares doesn't do any good, I found out, when locked on, make a loop, at the same time throw away your flares, make some nices turns and shit on altitude, dive down get up and such untill ur clear, then fly back to 400 -500 meters/feet dunno what it is

Usually this helps,
Off course this doesn't applie to the J-10 xD

Last edited by RDMC(2) (2006-07-19 11:31:10)

BUDFORCE
Moderator Emeritus
+76|7339|London UK

excluding the f35b, I think air combat is the best it has ever been.
[n00b]Tyler
Banned
+505|7161|Iceland
i guess u n00bs forgot what i taws like getting raped by a J10 on wake and u'dspam 8 AA's at it and he would just go up and evade all of them.
Viper38
Member
+118|7237
I'll have a think about this Sarge and get back to you
JeSTeR_Player1
Flying Solo
+98|7337|Canada, Ont
To be honest I don't mind thing the way they are But they need to have the F35 for USMC less of a Missle Magnet.

J-10 is rigged and so is F-18 because missles seem to try very hard to NOT hit them.

On maps where Air is really important like CleanSweep/Ohman/Zatar Wetlands, Being chased around all map without killing eachother more then two times is just making the ground armor suffer.

I think its better this way. You should if you want to Dogfight is fight your opponent and Connect to a Server with 1.2 and Just 1vs1.
Vampira_NB
Trying is the first step to failing
+76|7241|Canada Eh?
People are complaining because people complained about something....
Bidasse_Jason
Member
+5|7309
What the hell has happened to aviation since 1.2?!
Hasn't this topic been debated a billion times ?
Simon
basically
+838|7225|UK

Bidasse_Jason wrote:

What the hell has happened to aviation since 1.2?!
Hasn't this topic been debated a billion times ?
No.
spacebandit72
Dead Meat
+121|7297|Michigan

PBAsydney wrote:

btw. I want to see A2A missiles back to 1.12 style, but keep the AA missiles like this for the little scared kiddies who have no skill at all so they aren't crapping themselves in fear due to extremely skilled aces.

My 2cents
Well I agree w/ the AA thing.
Little scared kiddies with no skill at all? No matter how skilled someone is, you can't take out any aircraft with small arms. Helos go down good with the AT if you can get a shot but it used to suck that one would have missile lock with AA and have nothing in the way (clear shot) and still miss. That is stupid.

I hate stupid (ace) pilots who think they are God's gift. Just because they can fly, anyone else that can't has no skill. Get over yourselves.

Don't get me wrong, I give credit where credit is due but a little less asshole attitude would be great.
VeNg3nCe^
¦Tactics Øver Principles¦
+314|7273|Antarctica

ExecutionerStyle wrote:

It went down the drain along with any other skill klled in 1.2 because of whining crying smurfs

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