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Poll

What should be done?

Balance out the J10 with the other planes in the game38%38% - 23
Give mobile AA and upgrade the Essex AA27%27% - 16
Delay the spawning of aircraft (Dalian in particular)5%5% - 3
Make the BH's flares work better8%8% - 5
Leave it as it is20%20% - 12
Total: 59
2006-07-19 13:57:06
Snake
Missing, Presumed Dead
+1,046|7133|England

Well, im fortunate I wasnt on the opposing team on this one, but this screenshot says it all:

https://www.sfsteam.co.uk/Snakes_Screenies/aviator.jpg



Now, Im no pliot. In fact, I cant fly for shit! I dont care about planes really. Everyone plays their role. (This isnt a whining topic either).
But this guy, fair enough, he was a good pilot, but it caused for one boring match. He single handedly took out both fully loaded US blackhawks at the start of the round. 12/0 within the first minute.
Now, ok, this worked wonders for the whole Chinese team as we went around capping all the flags, but the US never landed and took a flag throughout the entire round...
The only people who had fun, or should I say, even had a round, were the 2 J10 pilots (both I believe are at the top of the leaderboard, but not sure). Oh, and probably the commander raining arty on the carrier for shear boredom.

This is the guy concerned: http://bf2s.com/player/44501301/
(as it was, this was his BRS on Dalian!!)

So, should the J10 get downgraded or should there be mobile AA for the US to use, or even some sort of decent anti air system?
Maybe even delay the spawning of the aircraft on the map, because all too often on that map, the US get pounded because their 2 blackhawks get taken down right away - and there is nothing that 2 crappy F35's can do against 1 J10, let alone 2 of them.

This is an all too common situation, not just on Dalian, but on Wake too. Oman is another one where I see it often and even Zatar to an extent. Any map where the US start on the carrier basically!
So, should EA do something about it? Not in terms of "Im a big time aviator and I love raping the enemy team" but in terms of map fairness and the balance of the teams.

Last edited by Snake (2006-07-19 14:00:09)

2006-07-19 14:16:57
USAFDude_1988
Will fly for food.
+120|7076|Daytona Beach, FL
"[The J-10's] performance is generally speculated to be within the class of a late-model F-16, although maneuverability is thought to be superior (possibly within the range of some early fifth generation Western fighters)." - Wikipedia.org

Considering the F-35 is the latest fifth generation figther.. this quote is saying that the J-10 could *POSSIBLY* be comparable to an F-35...

I think Dice needs to cite their sources. That excerpt from Wikipedia does not have me convinced that the J-10 should be outrunning and outturning an F-35.

Last edited by USAFDude_1988 (2006-07-19 14:21:49)

2006-07-19 14:59:20
Mouse315
Bash.org Junkie
+105|7087
Mobile AA wouldn't work on Dalian unless the US could capture a base.  It would have to be boat mounted to stop jets from attacking the carrier, which already has its own AA.
2006-07-19 15:33:41
Chuckles
Member
+32|7115
I voted for boosting the Essex AA/giving the US some kind of mobile AA.  They would need to start the round with a base on land though for it to spawn at.

Where is the vote option for making jets have to land in order to repair and get more ammo?  Choppers have to at least hover over their spawn for a moment in order to repair or reload, but that is also BS.  Both jets and choppers should have to land and have an engineer or support work on them in order to repair or reload, just like every other vehicle on the game.  Why give the two most lethal types of machines in the game another huge advantage?
2006-07-19 15:37:06
Mike_J
Member
+68|7236
Should just go back to that patch where if someone was on your six then you were dead, no matter what jet.  That, or how the game originally was.
2006-07-19 15:45:26
srog72
Member
+12|7323|Michigan
Its not just the J10s power that is outrageous its the way that it avoids missles.  It seems that the missles just dont lock on too it.  You have to use the MGs on it.  But when engaging the F35 with J10, 2 missles and its over  about 80% of the time.  IMO thats what they need to fix.  If the J10 is more agile or faster that is ok.
2006-07-19 15:50:21
Jim_Bred
Member
+15|7069
that guy is not a good BF2 player
2006-07-19 15:52:43
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7410|Reykjavík, Iceland.
Don't balance J-10 according to other planes, balance F-35 according to other planes.
2006-07-19 16:50:38
Bell
Frosties > Cornflakes
+362|7116|UK

Swap the F-35 for the F-22 Raptor ( I think that is what it is called ) erm, aye n maybe it will all be ok?  Seriously though, if ur in an f-35 and u see a j-10 keep out his way, however if u find ur self in the position ur tailing him, fire every God damm missile u have at the bastard before he gets time to react.  What I would really like to see, is the F-35 to match the J-10, and see the essex given APC like armour, that way J-10 boys can go into that carrier zone, but they may not come out.........  HAPPY DAYS!!!!

Thing I have also said on a server about wake island, how about on carrier levels. give the usmc the option of an ariel drop, just like for the SAS or warlord, sf map.

Cya
2006-07-19 17:04:16
aqempty
Member
+6|7073|international waters
the main problem of uss essex aa is that u cant evade their bombs as they do with ur missiles, so the aa should resist a direct impact of a bomb to give a chance to defend.
the mobile aa has a similar problem, they canot defend when a choppers haves good gunners,it neither throw smoke like other tanks
2006-07-19 17:10:29
ednodes
Part-time Owner
+12|7111|Bath
I think that the USS essex should have:
A) A much longer range and higher success Hit-Rate
B) A possibility of TV misilles found in CHoppers (just Fascinating)
2006-07-19 17:11:59
claydawg
Chuck Norris' Homeboy
+85|7190|Oxford, MS
Dalian is what it is.  I think the fairness of that map depends on the teams.  I run a 24/7 Dalian Plant server (check my sig) and I've seen the US win plenty of times.  It's only one-sided if the teams are.  Even if one team controls the air, it doesn't do any good without people on the ground capping flags.  You can get hella points just running around in a fast-mover and capping flags.  In order to own on Dalian, you're team must be well-balanced.  If this "well-balanced" team stays together on USMC the following round, it will happen again.  If you're having trouble getting off the carrier, wait for a J-10 to reload and take an F-35 toward land.  Bail over the docks and cap a flag.  It's on after that.
2006-07-19 17:15:44
vanmani
Unintentionally Verbose
+26|7158|Australia
The J10 is so awesome for a simple reason. The USMC have the best armour. The MEC have the best default weaponry. The PLA have the best plane.

Dalian is rarely so one sided, it takes a particularly unbalanced team for that kind of ownage to happen, really. Two good squads on the USMC side and it would probably have been a different story. Or if you had crap pilots in the J10s.

s'good map. I like it.
2006-07-19 17:53:12
uk-anubis-uk
Member
+21|7089
The J10 is far superior to the other jets in the game making it quite crap a lot of the time when you are on the Yanks!
2006-07-19 17:55:16
ednodes
Part-time Owner
+12|7111|Bath

vanmani wrote:

The J10 is so awesome for a simple reason. The USMC have the best armour. The MEC have the best default weaponry. The PLA have the best plane.

Dalian is rarely so one sided, it takes a particularly unbalanced team for that kind of ownage to happen, really. Two good squads on the USMC side and it would probably have been a different story. Or if you had crap pilots in the J10s.

s'good map. I like it.
Well said
2006-07-19 17:57:30
Reject_Wolf
Former Karkand Addict
+32|7150
I don't know why the carrier isn't unstoppable for taking down planes though, I mean it makes total sense and would prevent carrier raping.  Other than that, I think it is good.
2006-07-19 17:58:32
TheCanadianTerrorist
Member
+111|7122
Ok, I agree with some of those, they are:

Upgrade Essex Chaingun/Anti-Air Missles.
Lower the J-10's rape status.
Make Blackhawk Flares work better.

I don't agree with putting more Anti-Air or Mobile Anti-Air in the maps, because if they did what I said above, the planes would be balanced out more.
2006-07-19 18:10:44
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|7192|Home of the Escalade Herds
If you make the BH flares better they'll just kill it with the death ray gun that jets have. 2-3 seconds sustained fire = death to any BH/AH.

Imo the gun on jets is way too strong. It's fine vs other jets but vs anything else, it's insane.
2006-07-20 10:21:48
Snake
Missing, Presumed Dead
+1,046|7133|England

I agree that Dalian is a good fun map - and those teams were mega unbalanced. It was a 24/7 Dalian server (I believe it was the TV2 one) and out of about 7rounds on it, our team didnt lose once.
The US can often land on the island, but usually at the expense of at least one BH to a J10.

And if the teams are so unbalanced, nobody from the winning team will ever swap over to help out. Or at least, not enough of them to make it fairer.
I think that 2 spawn points on the map should have AA, since choppers and jets just cannot be taken down by anything other than eachother on the map.
Theres the odd stinger site, but they are shit to say the least. If they had an AA vehicle at the Chinese uncap and at the South Docks, which the US capture every time, then it might help balance out the massive jet advantage on the map.

I just find it strange that theres no form of AA to hit back at the flyboys with. I mean, look at Oman, Zatar and Wake. Same situation, and the jets on there rule the day.
On the maps that include AA: FuShe, Daqing, DV and Kubra  - you can fight back against them and can actually take them out.

But it seems that a lot of people agree that something should be done, if not to the map, but to the J10
2006-07-20 10:24:59
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|7263|NJ
Maybe if the AA on the carrier was moble like it had a slide bar or something to avoid ever jet pilots line. Because you don't even get a lock and the bullets from the jet are already flying down at the AA.
2006-07-20 13:38:21
USAFDude_1988
Will fly for food.
+120|7076|Daytona Beach, FL

Bell wrote:

Swap the F-35 for the F-22 Raptor ( I think that is what it is called ) erm, aye n maybe it will all be ok?  Seriously though, if ur in an f-35 and u see a j-10 keep out his way, however if u find ur self in the position ur tailing him, fire every God damm missile u have at the bastard before he gets time to react.  What I would really like to see, is the F-35 to match the J-10, and see the essex given APC like armour, that way J-10 boys can go into that carrier zone, but they may not come out.........  HAPPY DAYS!!!!

Thing I have also said on a server about wake island, how about on carrier levels. give the usmc the option of an ariel drop, just like for the SAS or warlord, sf map.

Cya
Swapping the F-35 for the F-22 isn't a good idea. First of all, this is about the F-35's performance. Just because Dice screwed up the F-35 doesn't mean it should be replaced by an F-22. Chances are that the Raptor would have its performance screwed up by Dice too.

Second of all, the F-35B is built specifically for operations off of Marine assault ships, like the Essex. The F-22 is a land-based superiority fighter for the Air Force.

Third of all, the F-22 is a stealth fighter.. and if Dice realistically included the stealth charateristic.. it would make the plane the dominant vehicle in whatever map it was placed in.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Maybe if the AA on the carrier was moble like it had a slide bar or something to avoid ever jet pilots line. Because you don't even get a lock and the bullets from the jet are already flying down at the AA.
Mobile AA on the carrier is unrealistic. The real Essex has three CIWS systems (the AA). For some dumbass reason, Dice decided to only include two. In reality, there are two CIWS turrets at the stern of the carrier - one on each side. Dice consolidated the two turrets at the rear into one large one - which obstructs the flight deck to passing F-35s that are rearming and repairing. If Dice made the Essex accurately, it would be certain death for any spawn rapers - they might manage to get one.. but the other would certainly destroy the aircraft.

In this picture, you can clearly see the two turrets at the stern of the ship, both clearly below the flight deck.
https://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/SlayerUSAF2005/Lhd1_uss_wasp209.jpg

Last edited by USAFDude_1988 (2006-07-20 13:51:33)

2006-07-20 13:41:57
brome
brap.
+244|7154|Accidental, TK
I reckon the mobile AA coupled with delayed spawning.  As someone said, the mobile AA would'nt be very good if the US had no bases, but delaying plane spawns would help with this, giving the US a chance first.
2006-07-20 13:45:55
ToXiC888
Cal players > BF2s
+40|7152|Columbus,Ohio-THE Ohio State U

USAFDude_1988 wrote:

"[The J-10's] performance is generally speculated to be within the class of a late-model F-16, although maneuverability is thought to be superior (possibly within the range of some early fifth generation Western fighters)." - Wikipedia.org

Considering the F-35 is the latest fifth generation figther.. this quote is saying that the J-10 could *POSSIBLY* be comparable to an F-35...

I think Dice needs to cite their sources. That excerpt from Wikipedia does not have me convinced that the J-10 should be outrunning and outturning an F-35.
No the J-10 is far superior to the F-35 because the F-35 is primarily a strike aircraft.  It would normally have stealth capabilities, but this was never implemented into BF2, and without that, its just an average fighter.
2006-07-20 14:01:35
Ekapah
Member
+2|7188|Maine
Balancing the J10 would benefit the entire game but I'd be afraid to see DICE just reverse the roles and make the F-35/F15 better than the J10, It's not on a lot of maps so people tend not to notice but i feel that the Mig is better all around than the J10 but thats just my opinion.
As to the double turrets... I'm sick of being tk'd by one so maybe two would give you a chance to defend but it could also make that worse. I'd like to see a REAL carrier, the one in bf2 is a WWII carrier, the one above is actually called a command vessle and most ended use after Vietnam.

The issue at hand I'd say ballance the J10 *shudders as to what dice canada would do* It's difficult to shoot down a jet with AA I think it would just present another, i'll be it more difficult. target for the J10 pilot
2006-07-20 14:03:44
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|7234

USMC winning Dalian is about NOT spawning on the Essex after you get a flag.  Simple as that.  Hold the three south flags and the USMC will almost always win.  I've played many rounds where we've raped the PLA uncap.

 

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