BF2S Forums Best Carry Handgun Caliber Ever???

.45 acp hollow points ftw.  Almost guaranteed to stop anyone in their tracks.

imortal wrote:

Actually, the 10mm sometimes has a one round advantage over the .45 magazine wise.  The problem with the 10mm was bullet design.  They found that there was too much power in the 10mm round, causing the bullet to completely penetrate the target (body), instead of stopping inside it.  You do NOT, I say again NOT, want a round to overpenatrate.  As cool as it sounds, it is just wasted energy.  They found that the 10mm cartrige performed MUCH better when underloaded.  Then they just shortened the case and called it a .40 S&W.

+1

ts-pulsar wrote:

Wow, I only have 5 others who agree with me that 10mm is the way to go.  As much if not more stopping power than .45acp and larger magazine capacity.

That said, I don't own a 10mm handgun, as no one out there seems to make one I like.

Too much overpenetration.  .45ACP can overpenetrate even with Hollowpoints, the 10mm is worse at it.  That's why the FBI dumped it.  Tho, i have been thinking about checking one out anyways.

ts-pulsar wrote:

Glock builds a good one, but I don't like glock as a company cause they tend to treat gunsmiths like shit.  They have this attitude that there guns are perfect and any problem the gun has is obviously the owners fault.

Glocks are great guns, but if you think their tough to deal with, try H&K.  Hk makes you send it off to a 'certified' smith.  Up until recently that meant Germany and 6-8months.  I think they have a couple in the States now that do commercial work. 

ts-pulsar wrote:

My carry piece is a CZ-75d (also known as CZ-75 PCR) which is a 9mm.  I like it because it is very comfortable, it's small, which is good cause I'm almot never in weather where I need to cover up.  It's also ery reliable, I've put a lot of ammo through it at the range with out a single failure.

Love CZs, don't have one, but like 'em alot.  Basically a modified Browning High Power.

ts-pulsar wrote:

And if we are gonna play the bigger penis game, I'd take the S&W .500 Magnum, that way if that bull elephant ever charges me, I can take him down.

P.S.  Don't ever shoot the .500 Magnum with a 2 inch barrel, bruise didn't go away for a couple weeks.  I still don't know why the guy even had a 2 inch barrel on it, but he was using it as his carry piece.

Yikes, that dude has compensation problems.....the 500 is too much for anything except, as you said, an elephant, or maybe a Grizzly.

joker3327 wrote:

http://www.glock.com/g19.jpg

Glock 19 for me...wide ejection port == less movment from recoile = better accuracy from a double tap!

Good gun, for concealed carry during warm days I have either Glock 26 or walther P99C both 9mm and I either use Hydra-Shok or Black-Talon depending on which gun I want to use that day - I also keep a Beretta Bobcat .25 strapped to my leg

kr@cker wrote:

the keyword is "carry", many of what I've seen posted are great hand cannons, but ridiculously unwieldy as a regular carry weapon unless you're perhaps looking for military carry and needing massive stopping power

For me, its all about the .40 S&W. I carry it in a p229, and wouldn't trade it for anything. Perfect balance of stopping power, capacity, and damage. I work in an ER and on a truck, so I based my purchase on the rounds that I see the most damage.

Couldn't pay me to carry a glock though. Too many accidental misfires by folks actually trained in their use. My Sig is a .40, and all I have to do to switch it to .357 SIG is swap out the barrel. It takes like 45 seconds. That, plus the fact that its a SA/DA weapon, and has an integrated decocking lever, makes it my best friend. So much so that I got a mosquito so that I can hone my sig skillz at $1 a box instead of $9

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

That's true.  That's also why I made sure to keep enough of the Black Talon rounds to fill one magazine after that ammo was removed from the market.

Just because that brand is off the market doesn't mean that round is no longer made or available. Black Talons got banned because some idiot started a rumor that the black coating on the round made it defeat body armor, which it totally not the case. It just looked sinister. Anyway, Winchester still makes the round. They just marketed it under the name Ranger Talon, and then Ranger SXT. They just got rid of the black moly coat, and the PR problems went away.


OK, I want to spend a little bit of time talking about hollowpoints (or dum-dum rounds, as our British cousins like to call them). The fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter what caliber you're shooting if its a hollowpoint and hits in the kill zone. And there are a LOT of great hollowpoints on the market right now. Winchester has the Ranger SXT, Remington has the Golden Saber, Hornady has the XTP, Speer has the Gold Dot (my personal carry round of choice), Federal has Hydra-Shok, the list goes on and on. 

I just reread that. It doesn't matter between a 9mm and a .45......all that stuff above.

|AIA| DAS wrote:

I've never heard of a glock misfiring... Law enforcement carry them more than any other pistol.   Article?

NYPD has over 19000 of them alone.

Ask and ye shall recieve:

linky
Linky

Linky
And my personal favorite:
Linky

k30dxedle wrote:

blisteringsilence wrote:

|AIA| DAS wrote:

I've never heard of a glock misfiring... Law enforcement carry them more than any other pistol.   Article?

NYPD has over 19000 of them alone.

Ask and ye shall recieve:

linky
Linky

Linky
And my personal favorite:
Linky

If I shoot myself in the foot, how is that a misfire?

I think accidental discharge is what he meant.

|AIA| DAS wrote:

blisteringsilence wrote:

For me, its all about the .40 S&W. I carry it in a p229, and wouldn't trade it for anything. Perfect balance of stopping power, capacity, and damage. I work in an ER and on a truck, so I based my purchase on the rounds that I see the most damage.

Couldn't pay me to carry a glock though. Too many accidental misfires by folks actually trained in their use.....
Winchester still makes the round [Black Talon]. They just marketed it under the name Ranger Talon, and then Ranger SXT. They just got rid of the black moly coat, and the PR problems went away.

I just reread that. It doesn't matter between a 9mm and a .45......all that stuff above.

I've never heard of a glock misfiring... Law enforcement carry them more than any other pistol.   Article?

NYPD has over 19000 of them alone.

First question:  When you say 'misfire' are you actually meaning Accidental Discharge? (i.e. the gun being fired when it was not intended--->pulling trigger accidently)  OR do you mean an honest to *** misfire = failure to fire when trigger in activated? 
I have heard of the first, not the Glock's fault, and supposedly there was a vid on Ebaums about a Federal Agent of some kind or another blasting his leg/foot with one like that.......brilliant
I have not, however, heard of a the second one(failure to fire) unless faulty ammo was being used. 

Ok, next question:  I am familiar, in passing with the Black Talons, and i see Ranger SXTs at every gunshow.  So, the question: what's the big deal with these anyways?  I heard that they are the nastiest thing out there, that they grip/rip/tear threw tissue in a particularly nasty way, and damn near 'fuse' themselves to bone, and then cut doctors that are trying to remove them.  So, what gives? 

BTW, the Rangers say "Law Enforcement/Military Only" on the box.

Jaguar wrote:

|AIA| DAS wrote:

blisteringsilence wrote:

For me, its all about the .40 S&W. I carry it in a p229, and wouldn't trade it for anything. Perfect balance of stopping power, capacity, and damage. I work in an ER and on a truck, so I based my purchase on the rounds that I see the most damage.

Couldn't pay me to carry a glock though. Too many accidental misfires by folks actually trained in their use.....
Winchester still makes the round [Black Talon]. They just marketed it under the name Ranger Talon, and then Ranger SXT. They just got rid of the black moly coat, and the PR problems went away.

I just reread that. It doesn't matter between a 9mm and a .45......all that stuff above.

I've never heard of a glock misfiring... Law enforcement carry them more than any other pistol.   Article?

NYPD has over 19000 of them alone.

First question:  When you say 'misfire' are you actually meaning Accidental Discharge? (i.e. the gun being fired when it was not intended--->pulling trigger accidently)  OR do you mean an honest to *** misfire = failure to fire when trigger in activated? 
I have heard of the first, not the Glock's fault, and supposedly there was a vid on Ebaums about a Federal Agent of some kind or another blasting his leg/foot with one like that.......brilliant
I have not, however, heard of a the second one(failure to fire) unless faulty ammo was being used. 

Ok, next question:  I am familiar, in passing with the Black Talons, and i see Ranger SXTs at every gunshow.  So, the question: what's the big deal with these anyways?  I heard that they are the nastiest thing out there, that they grip/rip/tear threw tissue in a particularly nasty way, and damn near 'fuse' themselves to bone, and then cut doctors that are trying to remove them.  So, what gives? 

BTW, the Rangers say "Law Enforcement/Military Only" on the box.

You have some really tough gun enthusiasts here, so you have to watch out for those terms that often get used interchangeable.  We already went through this bout with clip and magazine being used as such.

Some people are just so temperamental.  I knew what you meant.

blisteringsilence wrote:

Did you *mean* to shoot yourself in the foot? And I need to restate myself.... what I meant to say was "accidental discharges" not "accidental misfires." Those two terms get interchanged a lot, and I was remis to do it myself.

LEOs like glocks becuase they're cheap, easy to clean/repair, and take a lot of abuse. If you're willing to drop an extra $300 bucks, get a Sig. When reliability and safety are at their ultimate, rather than cost (like, say for a Federal Air Marshal), Sigs are the weapon of choice.

A safety tied into the trigger is not a safety. If the weapon can be discharged by placing it back in your holster, it is *not* safe for everyday carry.

Ok, answered a Q it took to long to type.  I figured that you meant AD, just wanted to clarify for others, i didn't mean to jump on your case or anything.  I do however, enjoy a discussion, and don't want an awesome and revolutionary design such as the Glock to be unfairly labeled unsafe. 

Next, the trigger is a safety.  There is no hammer, so a decocker is not needed.  I have owned both Glocks and Sigs.  Love em both.  The Glock has a much longer service life as a carry pistol, and is cheaper yes.  The only way the pistol will be discharged by placing it in your holster is if you keep your finger on the trigger and therefore snag/pull it.  This is, therefore, an issue of improper training in firearms safety, not a failure of the the firearm's design.  The trigger finger should never touch the trigger unless you(not you specifically blistering) are intending to fire, period.  Anything else is a failure of training. 

A sig has NO safeties standard.  The DA/SA is not anymore of a safety than the Glocks trigger.  In fact, it is more susceptible to ADs than the Glock since the Glock has the mini-trigger that releases the actual trigger for travel.  Plus, with an exposed hammer, the SIG has the chance of AD when dropped, if the decocking lever is not used(i.e. you decock by using trigger and finger-on-hammer) then it will not be properly set, and an AD can occur.  The Glock however, will not AD, even if dropped from an airplane onto the concrete, or placed in a vise and beaten on with a hammer. 

So far as the AD with holster, eh, that can happen with any firearm that doesn't have the traditional safety ala 1911/beretta/Browning HP/etc.

The biggest thing to remember is my favorite quote on 'safeties,' from a Green Beret:  "[a] safety is something that occurs between the ears, not something that can be held between your hands..."

*edit* to incorporate post made after i began typing

Last edited by Jaguar (2006-08-09 12:55:00)

Dersmikner wrote:

I have several handguns, and my newest is the best.

I have a Mackarov 9, a Navy issue WWII .45 (was my Grandpa's), a little .380, and others, but maybe the best I have is a brand new Springfield Armory XD45. Sonofabitch holds 13 in the clip and one in the pipe, and it's no bigger than my Mackarov. It's a 4 inch job. Double action (first double action I've owned). Great balance.

In my concealed carry class they taught us that most gun battles happen from 8 or fewer feet, and that 80% of handgun shots miss their target. At that rate I'll still plug some dumbass burglar 3 times, and I can live with those numbers.

Love my XD45 Tactical.  Those kick like a dream don't they?  At least, the 5in handles more like a glock 9mm than any .45ACP i've ever shot.

Jaguar wrote:

Next, the trigger is a safety.  There is no hammer, so a decocker is not needed.  I have owned both Glocks and Sigs.  Love em both.  The Glock has a much longer service life as a carry pistol, and is cheaper yes.  The only way the pistol will be discharged by placing it in your holster is if you keep your finger on the trigger and therefore snag/pull it.  This is, therefore, an issue of improper training in firearms safety, not a failure of the the firearm's design.  The trigger finger should never touch the trigger unless you(not you specifically blistering) are intending to fire, period.  Anything else is a failure of training. 

A sig has NO safeties standard.  The DA/SA is not anymore of a safety than the Glocks trigger.  In fact, it is more susceptible to ADs than the Glock since the Glock has the mini-trigger that releases the actual trigger for travel.  Plus, with an exposed hammer, the SIG has the chance of AD when dropped, if the decocking lever is not used(i.e. you decock by using trigger and finger-on-hammer) then it will not be properly set, and an AD can occur.  The Glock however, will not AD, even if dropped from an airplane onto the concrete, or placed in a vise and beaten on with a hammer. 

The biggest thing to remember is my favorite quote on 'safeties,' from a Green Beret:  "[a] safety is something that occurs between the ears, not something that can be held between your hands..."

1. Glock does not have a longer service life. The slide needs replaced long before a sig, when it comes to rounds fired That's one of the big reasons its cheaper, and lost the contract with the military in the 80's.

2. The AD's/Misfires's I was referring to did not involve a finger on a trigger, the trigger got caught on the retention lock in the holster and was released.... call it what you want, I just call it not safe. Additionally, most civillian-used concealed carry rigs don't feature a strap or guard that covers the trigger/trigger guard, meaning that anything that gets caught up in there will cause an AD.

3. Sigs should not ever be carried in condition 1. When you are in condition 2, there is no way for a drop to cause an AD, as there is a firing pin block tied into the hammer mechanism that prevents firing pin movement unless the hammer is pulled back to the release point. And anyone who carries a sig knows that it is infinitly easier to use the decocking lever than to release the hammer with your trigger finger and thumb.

Dersmikner wrote:

but maybe the best I have is a brand new Springfield Armory XD45. Sonofabitch holds 13 in the clip and one in the pipe, and it's no bigger than my Mackarov. It's a 4 inch job. Double action (first double action I've owned). Great balance.

Man, I have shot  an XD in .40 and .45, and for the life of me, I can't make myself like it. I just don't like the double action on that thing. Reminds me too much of the p.o.s. USP I used to have. God, that was a piece of shit.

That being said, congrats on finding something you like. That's why there are so many different models and feature sets and everything else. Find what you like and are good with, that's the only way to shop for a weapon.

Now, what are you going to get for your BUG? I like a little 5-shot .357, but thats just me.