And of course everyone follows the ROE, take BF2 for example.Bertster7 wrote:
is not only illegal and against the ROE
[/sarcasm]
[/sarcasm]
For a start there is no way Hezbollah were launching rockets from the oil tanks - they are too far away from Israel to make strikes into Israel with Kaytushas. The Kaytushas were launched from hilltops and mountainsides.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Yes. Bad intelligence and civilian casualties are simply a part of war. It's not a difficult concept to grasp, yet many of you seemingly cannot. I recall there being an uproar on these forums everytime the US accidently bombed a civilian target, and many users blindly condemning the whole conflict based on that alone.rawls2 wrote:
Again, the UN would not have been accidently bombed if Hezbollah wasn't fighting from the area.Spumantiii wrote:
just like how the UN was a target
just like how evacuating people are a target
just like how coastal oil tanks are a target (causing a natural disaster, a complete disregard for this planet's people. I fart in their general direction.)
Evacuating civilians would have been safe if hezbollah would not have called "shotgun" and squeezed into the cars of innocents.
The oil tanks were probably an oopsy. Unless hezbollah was hanging around the tankers shooting Kaytushas
It's just not in range so it couldn't happen.
Civilian casualties, sadly, are an unavoidable part of war - civilian casualties accounting for between 80 and 90% of the total casualties are not.
That, too, is an inevitability when you are fighting terrorists and guerillas.Bertster7 wrote:
Civilian casualties, sadly, are an unavoidable part of war - civilian casualties accounting for between 80 and 90% of the total casualties are not.
Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-08-25 17:08:36)
Actually, yes they do. If they don't they tend to be tried at a military hearing. There have been several of these for British and American soldiers involved in Iraq who have broken the ROE.SaladForks wrote:
And of course everyone follows the ROE, take BF2 for example.Bertster7 wrote:
is not only illegal and against the ROE
[/sarcasm]
BF2 is not real life - it's a game.
The situation in the middle east is not a game and no matter how far away it seems does not make it any less real.
No it isn't. Cite me one example of precedent.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
That, too, is an inevitability when you are fighting terrorists and guerillas.Bertster7 wrote:
Civilian casualties, sadly, are an unavoidable part of war - civilian casualties accounting for between 80 and 90% of the total casualties are not.
Perhaps one should not fight guerillas.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
That, too, is an inevitability when you are fighting terrorists and guerillas.Bertster7 wrote:
Civilian casualties, sadly, are an unavoidable part of war - civilian casualties accounting for between 80 and 90% of the total casualties are not.
Hezbollah does not have a standing uniformed army to meet Israel's and their militants conduct their attacks from civilian neighborhoods.Bertster7 wrote:
No it isn't. Cite me one example of precedent.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
That, too, is an inevitability when you are fighting terrorists and guerillas.Bertster7 wrote:
Civilian casualties, sadly, are an unavoidable part of war - civilian casualties accounting for between 80 and 90% of the total casualties are not.
Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-08-25 17:13:18)
That's not true - after much persuassion by the UN and more importantly the US, Israel have returned most of the Gaza strip and a very small amount of the land they took in the West Bank.Spumantiii wrote:
sighrawls2 wrote:
Israel has to keep these lands because if they gave them back it would be a staging area for further attacks on Israeli cities.Spumantiii wrote:
The UN is having to support the Lebanese army in retaking theirr own land, because without support Israel would just keep it.
Evidence: West Bank, Gaza, Golan.
Also: hesbollah ARE civilians. Phail.
please
we have no fucking idea what would happen, since Israel has NEVER given land back. And therefore Israel's occupations (not jobs) are unjustified as a reasonable response.
Can't be getting facts wrong....
Israel has claimed to end occupation in much their occupied territories. The truth of the matter is they have never removed their strict regulation of both Gaza Strip and West Bank borders, one of the prime factors in their control over the regions.Bertster7 wrote:
That's not true - after much persuassion by the UN and more importantly the US, Israel have returned most of the Gaza strip and a very small amount of the land they took in the West Bank.Spumantiii wrote:
sighrawls2 wrote:
Israel has to keep these lands because if they gave them back it would be a staging area for further attacks on Israeli cities.
please
we have no fucking idea what would happen, since Israel has NEVER given land back. And therefore Israel's occupations (not jobs) are unjustified as a reasonable response.
Can't be getting facts wrong....
That is not an example of precedent.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Hezbollah does not have a standing uniformed army to meet Israel's and their militants conduct their attacks from civilian neighborhoods.Bertster7 wrote:
No it isn't. Cite me one example of precedent.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
That, too, is an inevitability when you are fighting terrorists and guerillas.
Do you know what an example of precedent is? I was sure you would with your superb education.
Hezbollah do not conduct their attacks from civilian neighbourhoods. They plan their attacks from civilian neighbourhoods. Striking those targets is the only legitimate targeting Israel did during the campaign. The targeting of unrelated civilian infrastructure illegal. The sites they should have been targeting were those that the rockets were being launched from - they did not target these (not entirely true, they did take out a couple of launch locations - which were NOT in civilian centres).
They still patrol the region, but it's pretty much given back.jonsimon wrote:
Israel has claimed to end occupation in much their occupied territories. The truth of the matter is they have never removed their strict regulation of both Gaza Strip and West Bank borders, one of the prime factors in their control over the regions.Bertster7 wrote:
That's not true - after much persuassion by the UN and more importantly the US, Israel have returned most of the Gaza strip and a very small amount of the land they took in the West Bank.Spumantiii wrote:
sigh
please
we have no fucking idea what would happen, since Israel has NEVER given land back. And therefore Israel's occupations (not jobs) are unjustified as a reasonable response.
Can't be getting facts wrong....
That did require a lot of external pressure though.
I totally agree that the regulations there are too strict - but they are not violating any laws by patrolling the region and technically they have complied with their obligations.
Wait, if Hezbollah is targetting civilians, but kills more IDF....are the IDF hanging out in neighborhoods like Hezbollah?
I heard they were hanging out in Israeli Arab towns intentionally, can I get a confirm/deny that does not come from World Net Daily?
I heard they were hanging out in Israeli Arab towns intentionally, can I get a confirm/deny that does not come from World Net Daily?
Yes, this thread was based on just that accusation made by a member of the Israeli knesset.Ikarti wrote:
Wait, if Hezbollah is targetting civilians, but kills more IDF....are the IDF hanging out in neighborhoods like Hezbollah?
I heard they were hanging out in Israeli Arab towns intentionally, can I get a confirm/deny that does not come from World Net Daily?
The article in the OP of that thread is here.
I've heard that too. Seems to fit their typical agenda.Ikarti wrote:
Wait, if Hezbollah is targetting civilians, but kills more IDF....are the IDF hanging out in neighborhoods like Hezbollah?
I heard they were hanging out in Israeli Arab towns intentionally, can I get a confirm/deny that does not come from World Net Daily?
The main reason that Hezbollah kill more IDF than civillians is that their rockets are crap and don't do much damage. The IDF get killed, predominantly, in gun fights with Hezbollah millitia groups. It took an IDF task force several days to take one tiny village held by no more than 20 Hezbollah fighters (without any civilians in it - I should add). IDF casualties, according to the BBC were 'very heavy'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te … anisationsFancy_Pollux wrote:
Wrong...teddy..jimmy wrote:
Hezbollah are not regarded as terroists..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah# … _Hezbollah
You're making this too easy.
Hezbollah are not regarded as terrorists by the UN and the EU. Only a few countries actually name them terrorists even wothout any justification to this judgement.
Hezbollah is on that list...teddy..jimmy wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te … anisationsFancy_Pollux wrote:
Wrong...teddy..jimmy wrote:
Hezbollah are not regarded as terroists..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah# … _Hezbollah
You're making this too easy.
Hezbollah are not regarded as terrorists by the UN and the EU. Only a few countries actually name them terrorists even wothout any justification to this judgement.
It is silly to say Hezbollah are not a terrorist organisation. They are reforming and have been denouncing suicide bombing attacks since the 80s and conduct more traditional guerllia warfare. They also condemned the 9/11 attacks.
There are also a number of Israeli organisations on that list though and it is these that are so often overlooked.
I'm not saying Hezbollah are right in what they do but that Israel are just as bad, if not worse.
Seriously dont u get it!!!..teddy..jimmy wrote:
Israel also bomb the shit out of lebanon and since their technology is so advanced they should be able to hit the rite target. It just shows their intelligence is totally crap. Israel are doing the same in Palestine. I obviously know what im talking about here and that is the death toll which is what I have posted on the first mail.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Why? Hezbollah uses homemade rockets which they launch into civilian neighborhoods. Isreal is the most militarized country on Earth. Do you have any idea what you're talking about here? I enjoy a good debate, but you're making this too easy...teddy..jimmy wrote:
I truly believe that if Hezbollah were that mind set on killing civillians then the israel civillian death toll would be higher.
Hezbollah actually has missle launches inside civilian buildings, which they dont evacuate thus when Israel bombs the launches the buildings get destroyed in the process, try watching more reliable news like BBC for christ sake.
Thats not quite true, their gorilla fighters are decked out like an army thanks to Iran and Syria. There has been footage of them as such and England sold Night Vision to Iran which have some how turned up in Lebanon.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Hezbollah does not have a standing uniformed army to meet Israel's and their militants conduct their attacks from civilian neighborhoods.Bertster7 wrote:
No it isn't. Cite me one example of precedent.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
That, too, is an inevitability when you are fighting terrorists and guerillas.
we have no fucking idea what would happen, since Israel has NEVER given land back. And therefore Israel's occupations (not jobs) are unjustified as a reasonable response.
As a matter of fact, they have given alot back to surrounding Arabic countries. Not only Gaza strip, but Jericho, the oldest and still standing city in the world, other certain towns along the Palestine- Israel border and not to mention the three or four towns they gave back to Egypt.That's not true - after much persuassion by the UN and more importantly the US, Israel have returned most of the Gaza strip and a very small amount of the land they took in the West Bank.
Can't be getting facts wrong....
EDIT: Spelling
Last edited by BattlefieldMedic (2006-08-26 06:07:20)
No they don't. You can't launch a Katyusha from in a building, they also need to be lauched from elevated launch sites to get the required range - lucky Lebanon has lots of remote mountaintops in the middle of nowhere.Vilham wrote:
Seriously dont u get it!!!..teddy..jimmy wrote:
Israel also bomb the shit out of lebanon and since their technology is so advanced they should be able to hit the rite target. It just shows their intelligence is totally crap. Israel are doing the same in Palestine. I obviously know what im talking about here and that is the death toll which is what I have posted on the first mail.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Why? Hezbollah uses homemade rockets which they launch into civilian neighborhoods. Isreal is the most militarized country on Earth. Do you have any idea what you're talking about here? I enjoy a good debate, but you're making this too easy.
Hezbollah actually has missle launches inside civilian buildings, which they dont evacuate thus when Israel bombs the launches the buildings get destroyed in the process, try watching more reliable news like BBC for christ sake.
The strikes on building have been deliberately targeting civilian infrastructure as well as Hezbollah leadership and planning groups which ARE based in civilian areas. (source for that, the BBC)
Read it properly and it will say that Hezbollha are not on the list and should not yet be labeled as terrorists.Bertster7 wrote:
Hezbollah is on that list...teddy..jimmy wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te … anisationsFancy_Pollux wrote:
Wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah# … _Hezbollah
You're making this too easy.
Hezbollah are not regarded as terrorists by the UN and the EU. Only a few countries actually name them terrorists even wothout any justification to this judgement.
It is silly to say Hezbollah are not a terrorist organisation. They are reforming and have been denouncing suicide bombing attacks since the 80s and conduct more traditional guerllia warfare. They also condemned the 9/11 attacks.
There are also a number of Israeli organisations on that list though and it is these that are so often overlooked.
I'm not saying Hezbollah are right in what they do but that Israel are just as bad, if not worse.
It also says that the EU do not regard Hezbollah as terrorists
Position of the UNBertster7 wrote:
Hezbollah is on that list...teddy..jimmy wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te … anisationsFancy_Pollux wrote:
Wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah# … _Hezbollah
You're making this too easy.
Hezbollah are not regarded as terrorists by the UN and the EU. Only a few countries actually name them terrorists even wothout any justification to this judgement.
It is silly to say Hezbollah are not a terrorist organisation. They are reforming and have been denouncing suicide bombing attacks since the 80s and conduct more traditional guerllia warfare. They also condemned the 9/11 attacks.
There are also a number of Israeli organisations on that list though and it is these that are so often overlooked.
I'm not saying Hezbollah are right in what they do but that Israel are just as bad, if not worse.
UN Security Council Resolution 1559, calls for "the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militia",[113] echoing the Taif Agreement that ended the Lebanese Civil War, but does not explicitly include Hezbollah[114][115] although Kofi Annan has advanced this interpretation.[116][117] The Lebanese Government[73] and Hezbollah dispute the application of this resolution to Hezbollah, referring to it as a "resistance movement" and not a militia. Israel has lodged complaints about Hezbollah's actions with the UN.[118] Hezbollah's deputy leader Naim Qassem has said that its forces might become a "reservist army" within the Lebanese army, though this suggestion is not universally supported within the organisation.[119]
The UN’s Deputy Secretary-General, Mark Malloch Brown, contests characterisations of the Lebanese militia as a terrorist organisation in the mould of al-Qaeda.[120] While acknowledging that “Hezbollah employs terrorist tactics,”[121] he says that it is unhelpful to call it a terrorist organization; the United States and the international community, in his view, would do well to respect it as a legitimate political party.
Please read this article as well..teddy..jimmy wrote:
Position of the UNBertster7 wrote:
Hezbollah is on that list...teddy..jimmy wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_organisations
Hezbollah are not regarded as terrorists by the UN and the EU. Only a few countries actually name them terrorists even wothout any justification to this judgement.
It is silly to say Hezbollah are not a terrorist organisation. They are reforming and have been denouncing suicide bombing attacks since the 80s and conduct more traditional guerllia warfare. They also condemned the 9/11 attacks.
There are also a number of Israeli organisations on that list though and it is these that are so often overlooked.
I'm not saying Hezbollah are right in what they do but that Israel are just as bad, if not worse.
UN Security Council Resolution 1559, calls for "the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militia",[113] echoing the Taif Agreement that ended the Lebanese Civil War, but does not explicitly include Hezbollah[114][115] although Kofi Annan has advanced this interpretation.[116][117] The Lebanese Government[73] and Hezbollah dispute the application of this resolution to Hezbollah, referring to it as a "resistance movement" and not a militia. Israel has lodged complaints about Hezbollah's actions with the UN.[118] Hezbollah's deputy leader Naim Qassem has said that its forces might become a "reservist army" within the Lebanese army, though this suggestion is not universally supported within the organisation.[119]
The UN’s Deputy Secretary-General, Mark Malloch Brown, contests characterisations of the Lebanese militia as a terrorist organisation in the mould of al-Qaeda.[120] While acknowledging that “Hezbollah employs terrorist tactics,”[121] he says that it is unhelpful to call it a terrorist organization; the United States and the international community, in his view, would do well to respect it as a legitimate political party.
http://ejpress.org/article/news/eu-israel_affairs/10025
this even comes from a jewish paper
Last edited by ..teddy..jimmy (2006-08-26 07:11:58)
I have seen BBC footage that shows the Katyusha missles coming from large holes that have been made in the side of buildings. There has also been footage shown that has had missle launches coming out of these buildings before they were bombed.Bertster7 wrote:
No they don't. You can't launch a Katyusha from in a building, they also need to be lauched from elevated launch sites to get the required range - lucky Lebanon has lots of remote mountaintops in the middle of nowhere.Vilham wrote:
Seriously dont u get it!!!..teddy..jimmy wrote:
Israel also bomb the shit out of lebanon and since their technology is so advanced they should be able to hit the rite target. It just shows their intelligence is totally crap. Israel are doing the same in Palestine. I obviously know what im talking about here and that is the death toll which is what I have posted on the first mail.
Hezbollah actually has missle launches inside civilian buildings, which they dont evacuate thus when Israel bombs the launches the buildings get destroyed in the process, try watching more reliable news like BBC for christ sake.
The strikes on building have been deliberately targeting civilian infrastructure as well as Hezbollah leadership and planning groups which ARE based in civilian areas. (source for that, the BBC)
Your source is bullshit, i watch BBC every day, at no point have they claimed Israel wants to kill all the civilians, that is what the BBC is about they dont make personal views they just report other peoples views.
Yeah obviously Israel havnt said they are targeting civilians becuase that would just be plain stupid. Howevere, the facts are there and the figures show that many Lebanese civilians are being killed becuase Israel are targeting housing areas. I know that Hezbollah are launching missiles from these housing areas but Israel shouldn't blatently be shooting missiles into these areas because they know there are civilians situated there.Vilham wrote:
I have seen BBC footage that shows the Katyusha missles coming from large holes that have been made in the side of buildings. There has also been footage shown that has had missle launches coming out of these buildings before they were bombed.Bertster7 wrote:
No they don't. You can't launch a Katyusha from in a building, they also need to be lauched from elevated launch sites to get the required range - lucky Lebanon has lots of remote mountaintops in the middle of nowhere.Vilham wrote:
Seriously dont u get it!!!
Hezbollah actually has missle launches inside civilian buildings, which they dont evacuate thus when Israel bombs the launches the buildings get destroyed in the process, try watching more reliable news like BBC for christ sake.
The strikes on building have been deliberately targeting civilian infrastructure as well as Hezbollah leadership and planning groups which ARE based in civilian areas. (source for that, the BBC)
Your source is bullshit, i watch BBC every day, at no point have they claimed Israel wants to kill all the civilians, that is what the BBC is about they dont make personal views they just report other peoples views.