BF2S Forums Local costs of Iraq war - Find out what your state gave up

Seaneroo wrote:

Feel better now?

Yes, thanks for asking! I had some delicious yogurt a few minutes ago.

Masques wrote:

Just one question for the "if you don't like the gov'ts policies then leave" crowd, what is the point of representative democracy then? Is it not the right of voting age Americans to change policies they disagree with? Would you move elsewhere if/when the gov't instituted policies you disagree with?

The whole concept is quite laughable.

If anything, the current crop of posters on BF2S firmly proves that the principle of Doublethink set down in 1984 is still very much alive:

"We're ensuring our freedom and bringing democracy to the world"

But at the same time

"If you don't agree with what I think, get out of my country".


It's almost poetic really

Seaneroo wrote:

3.  Russians are not completely free?  Things have certainly improved since Soviet days, but they still are not on a par with the U.S.

Don't worry, with things like the Patriot Act we'll eventually catch up to them.

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

that breaks down the total cost of the war ($318,500,000,000, or $1,075 for every living American).

$1,075 from every American?  Thats enough to commercially buy an M4.  Maybe thats where my 1075 went lol.

Apocalypse wrote:

A mod deleted my post, and infringed on my freedom of speech.

You have no freedom of speech on this privately hosted forum.

Seaneroo wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Seaneroo wrote:

Spearhead, hate to break it to you, but it isn't just your karma messages that are retarded.

Oh, by the way, I'm 46 years old, I have a bachelors degree in political science and a law degree with an emphasis in international law.   Being such a nihilist, I'm guessing either you haven't graduated from high school yet, or your girlfriend just broke up with you.  And if you think all countries are the same, I recommend you try lighting up a doobie in Tehran while wearing a "Fuck the Ayatollah" t-shirt, and see what happens to you.

Judging by the maturity level of your original comment I do find it difficult to believe you are who you claim to be. If you do happen to be telling the truth then that knocks the US education system down a couple of levels in my estimation.

Just which of my points do you disagree with?
      1.  Russia is ridden with mob-related crime?  That is absolutely true.
      2.  Russia is a Third World Country?  Ok, perhaps a little hyperbole there, but you must admit they'v fallen far on the world stage.  And if I remember correctly, the life expectancy of the average Russian is comparable to that of Third World Countries (better enjoy your short life while you can, Wasder)..
      3.  Russians are not completely free?  Things have certainly improved since Soviet days, but they still are not on a par with the U.S.

1. So lets see... yes, Russia is ridden with mob-related crime. Isn't that the same in the US and in most other countries?
2. Considering their quality of life, Americans are facing huge health problems so don't even go there.
3. Its funny how americans think they have freedom of speech. In a country where CNN is considered liberal!!!
All in all, maybe life is better in the US than Russia, but don't ever assume you are free.

And your age doesn't change the fact that your first post was offensive and immature.

Last edited by oug (2006-08-29 05:54:51)

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

Apocalypse wrote:

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

Interesting, I'd be very interested to hear more.

Anyway your taxes aren't going up, and ghettos aren't spreading because of the war in iraq.

But no one has put forth either claim.

Look. Let's simplify things using a nice little analogy.

Let's say a friend of yours is named Jim. He's a working dad with a wife and 2 kids.

Jim trusts his wife with spending decisions.

One day she suddenly spends $10,000 on caviar.

Jim comes to you and asks you what to do. What do you tell him?

1) Jim, you should let your wife know that you don't appreciate her use of your hard-earned money, and let her know how you want her to spend your money in the future.
2) Jim, you should kick your wife out of your house and get a new one.
3) Jim, you married your wife 6 years ago fair and square. You either love her and support the decisions she makes or GET THE FUCK OUT OF HER HOUSE.

Apocalypse wrote:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html

Quoting the source you cited: "A new study from the Center for Immigration Studies is one of the first to estimate the impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Based on Census Bureau data, the study estimates that households headed by illegal aliens used $10 billion more in government services than they paid in taxes in 2002. "

First of all, the "Center for Immigration Studies" which conducted this study is a think tank that across the board supports tighter immigration laws. This suggests a bit of bias in their study.

But let's ignore that. Let's ignore the fact that they're likely padding their estimates. In fact, let's say that they're way underestimating, and that it's actually TWENTY BILLION a year. DOUBLE what they say it is.

So how does the cost of illegal immigration over 3 years compare to the 3-year war in Iraq?

Illegal immigration: $60 billion
War in Iraq: $318.5 billion

Apocalypse, you said "Fuking retards actually think the war in Iraq is what's costing the country money, I'm not surprised. Try illegal immigration."  You then provided statistics proving yourself wrong.

It's a bit confusing.

Principle is the point, and those statics are not bias. At the least they're modest, and they historically have been. I'd rather see my money spent on justice for ridding out terrorists that are hiding behind women and children, and killing themselves for 72 virgins than it being spent on contagiously diseased illegal immigrant criminals that's making your little sister (hypothetically) a salad in a restaurant.

ELITE-UK wrote:

Anyone know how much its costing britain in this iraq war?

Probably enough money to get Wembley completed before the Olympics!!

Marconius wrote:

That's funny, Horseman...I could've sworn that we were talking about the Iraq War.  Not 9/11...

Try more coffee kid.

I'm not gonna make this about being anti american.. I like America because they saved our (Europe's) bacon in WW1 and WW2.

But I find this initial comment very distrubing... A 3 year war has cost in excess of 300 billion dollars... And the poster thinks that this money could be spent better... Am I getting his/your point correctly ?

If I am, then I think you're either very stupid, or not very good at math. While noone can say for sure EXACTLY how many people live in America.. let's assume that with inflation and what have we, that the war has cost an average of $350 pr american pr year.. or even only looking at the taxpayers only, let's say $1000 pr taxpayer (very high, but for the sake of argument) pr year.....

Do you REALLY think that's to high a price to pay for freedom ? For the lives of countless of Iraqis and other foreign nationals ? For the stability of the middle east ? For the ability to know for sure that your own ALLIES are able to live safely in their homes ? After all, what IS the price on a human life these days ? Apparently, if you're not willing to dish out a few measly dollars to save a guys life, then what do you propose spending the money on ? Better schools you say ? Because it's MUCH nicer to know that your children will grow up with a great education telling them how the American people decided that the cost of war was too high and let their allies die so that a school could buy new books for the students.... Right....

And when it comes right down to it... Did the TAXPAYERS actually PAY that $300 billion ? No... The US has had a HUGE deficit for so many years that today it owes 3/4 of the ENTIRE WORLDS debt ! That's right. The US borrows trillions of dollars to spend on whatever it feels like, so that the taxpayers can live nice cozy lives not worrying about being bombed by dictators like Hussein. And ONE of the things those loans are used for is to finance the war. Do you REALLY think the congress would sit for another term if it agreed to a tax increase of $1000 pr taxpayer to fight this war ? I certainly dont.
Because when it comes right down to it, people like YOU would rather have that money to buy a huge gas guzzling car that gets 5 miles/gallon, and not wonder about where all that oil comes from, or who pays for it. Because if an american pays more than $3 for a gallon of gas (and that's a shocker, after all in 1990 it was only $1 for a gallon), there'd be riots in the streets. Despite the fact that in the rest of the world we pay 2, 3 or even 4 times as much for gas, and we DONT buy SUVs for soccer mom.

There's an old saying.. Someting about throwing the first stone. Consider your situation and living conditions, and consider that of the people you want to deprive of the rights you take for granted. The right to live a decent life, the ability to walk on the street without fear of someone grabbing you and torturing you to death over your religion, race, or political beliefs. If the US wants to control the rest of the world, there's a price to pay. So I dont understand you complaining over a matter of pocket change, when it's not even you paying that money.

I know for a fact that the average American is not stupid. But I also know that as a whole, the american people are blinded by the facts. They rarely see the bigger picture, they trust their superiors to do the right thing for them. The average american apparently doens't like to make tough choices, or think about reality or consequences. Now the Bush administration has decided that the right thing to do was go to war, and you want to PUNISH or CHASTICE the adminstration for serving YOUR instrests ? The very administration that the american public voted into office... A democratic process the Iraqies haven't had the chance to participate in before, by the way.
If you feel cheated, then go vote for someone else next time. Personally, I think Bush did the right thing.

Americans complain about terrorism, and 9/11. But at the same time do not consider the fact that in the rest of the world, terrorism has been an active threat for ages. And the only cure is education, jobs, security and understanding/integration. Do you really think building those comodities and values would be free ? Like I said.. the american way of life has cost the world trillions of dollars over the last century. Do you really think that the countries in Asia and the middle east are capable of paying for the things the US already has, espcially considering what it has cost the americans ?  If so, then you are truly short sighted.
The average american can't even tell that the war in Iraq is a battle for regional stability, and that regional stability is a requirement to prevent terrorism from taking root. Terrorism that can easily hit the US (again). Thus the war in Iraq is needed to prevent the next Bin Laden from emerging, blowing up nuclear missle silos, or whatever the next insane guy will do.

There's a price to pay for any advancement. The building of the pyramids costs thousands of lives. The industrialiation of the west has already put a strain on the worlds environment beyond comprehension. Life, liberty and the persuit of happiness cost millions of people their lives during WW2. Why would a war in Iraq be any different ? You should in fact be THANKFUL that today, we HAVE the ability to throw money at a war, an ability that means fewer casualties, more stability, and a better way of life for others.

Had the situation been reversed, and lets say, Taiwan invaded the US, burned the cities, raped the women and gassed millions of people. Tortured, pillaged and killed Americans where they could. How would YOU feel if some moron in say... Australia went "Nah.. we shouldn't help free the americans from oppression, beause then we can't implement a new tax beak for people with private jets !"

Fortunately, I believe that the average american is quite aware of these things, and will not complain about "the cost" of the war in Iraq.

There's an old poem that got a lot of fame after WW2 that goes something like (from memory, I could not find the original work):

When they came for the blacks, I did not speak up for them
When they came for the jews, I did not speak up for them
When they came for the poor, I did not speak up for them
So when they come for me, who is left to speak up for me ?

Last edited by Twist (2006-08-29 17:15:10)

CameronPoe wrote:

Twist wrote:

Do you REALLY think that's to high a price to pay for freedom ?

I read your post as far as the sentence above and promptly stopped. War in Iraq is ensuring that Americans have 'freedom'? OMGROFLMAO. There is one born every day.

Funny thing was I was just reading your post about "intelligent dabating"... Where do I write that it's the AMERICANS freedom that's at stake ? Or do you SERIOUSLY believe that the rest of the word has no claim to life liberty and the persuit of happiness ?

yes, the IS one born everyday.. and if You cannot regocnize the plight of other people, then YOU'RE that one.

Last edited by Twist (2006-08-29 17:23:57)

CameronPoe wrote:

Twist wrote:

Do you REALLY think that's to high a price to pay for freedom ?

I read your post as far as the sentence above and promptly stopped. War in Iraq is ensuring that Americans have 'freedom'? OMGROFLMAO. There is one born every day.

according to your logic, you were born twice.