BF2S Forums Rumors are "Israel wants to negotiate with Hezbollah"

Last edited by Lisik (2006-08-31 05:17:28)

Bertster7 wrote:

Lisik wrote:

huh? israel will be bombed? by who? lol

add: and for what?

Israel won't be bombed - except by middle eastern states, possibly.

For what? It would take me a long time to list all the reasons, but state terrorism, violation of UN resolutions, violation of human rights, unjustifiable military actions, refusing to participate in the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty (NPT), stealing land and oppressing Arabs would be right up there.

jonnykill wrote:

lol Europe is fucked . Yall should buy a prayer rug and toss it in the closet. You'll be using it soon.

sergeriver wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Lisik wrote:

huh? israel will be bombed? by who? lol

add: and for what?

Israel won't be bombed - except by middle eastern states, possibly.

For what? It would take me a long time to list all the reasons, but state terrorism, violation of UN resolutions, violation of human rights, unjustifiable military actions, refusing to participate in the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty (NPT), stealing land and oppressing Arabs would be right up there.

I bet while you say this you are making nukes to get Israel wiped.

Bertster7 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Israel won't be bombed - except by middle eastern states, possibly.

For what? It would take me a long time to list all the reasons, but state terrorism, violation of UN resolutions, violation of human rights, unjustifiable military actions, refusing to participate in the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty (NPT), stealing land and oppressing Arabs would be right up there.

I bet while you say this you are making nukes to get Israel wiped.

Absolutely not. I don't condone using nukes on anyone ever no matter what. Nor do condone the suicide bombings conducted by Hamas and the PLO. I do condone Hezbollah guerilla fighters defending their country against Israeli incursions although I disagree with some of their tactics (which have been overplayed, especially the hiding behind civilians launching rockets, which very rarely happened, almost all rockets were launched from remote locations). I do even believe (just about) that Israel has a right to exist as a state, just a much smaller state paying reparations to the people of Palestine.

jonsimon wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

I bet while you say this you are making nukes to get Israel wiped.

Absolutely not. I don't condone using nukes on anyone ever no matter what. Nor do condone the suicide bombings conducted by Hamas and the PLO. I do condone Hezbollah guerilla fighters defending their country against Israeli incursions although I disagree with some of their tactics (which have been overplayed, especially the hiding behind civilians launching rockets, which very rarely happened, almost all rockets were launched from remote locations). I do even believe (just about) that Israel has a right to exist as a state, just a much smaller state paying reparations to the people of Palestine.

God knows they can afford to pay reparations, it'll all be American money anyway.

Bertster7 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Absolutely not. I don't condone using nukes on anyone ever no matter what. Nor do condone the suicide bombings conducted by Hamas and the PLO. I do condone Hezbollah guerilla fighters defending their country against Israeli incursions although I disagree with some of their tactics (which have been overplayed, especially the hiding behind civilians launching rockets, which very rarely happened, almost all rockets were launched from remote locations). I do even believe (just about) that Israel has a right to exist as a state, just a much smaller state paying reparations to the people of Palestine.

We're still joking right?  Although some of what you say sounded pretty serious.

Joking, I suggest you look at the history of Israel, now that's a joke. Illegal immigrants who used economic control and terrorism to illegally form a state and subjugate and oppress it's indiginous occupants - wait sounds like the US (appart from the terrorism), they pay reparations to native Americans - why not in Palestine?

EricTViking wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

As for the current "crisis", I can't even fathom the reasoning of those supporting Israeli negotiation.  A terrorist group kidnapped and attacked the country and the world wants them to sit back and say, "We're sorry for defending ourselves, it won't happen again"?  Utter BS.  Not only should the Israelis continue to occupy southern Lebanon, they should continue to persue Hezbollah whereever they decide to scurry and hide.

Hezbollah kidnapped *some* israeli soldiers not the whole country.

An appropriate response to kidnap from a civilised nation isn't to bomb the shit out of an entire country. It was a completely disproportionate response.

All that has happened is that Israel has lost credibility with the civilised world, and that every bomb dropped on Lebanon probably created 100 new freedom fighters.

EricTViking wrote:

ghoward79 wrote:

EricTViking wrote:

Hezbollah kidnapped *some* israeli soldiers not the whole country.

An appropriate response to kidnap from a civilised nation isn't to bomb the shit out of an entire country. It was a completely disproportionate response.

All that has happened is that Israel has lost credibility with the civilised world, and that every bomb dropped on Lebanon probably created 100 new freedom fighters.

I suppose Hezbollah's raining 3500 missles WAS an appropriate response? why side with terrorists? they'd lop of your silly head in a minute for expressing yourself freely.

I'm not siding with terrorists - just making the point that a powerful nation such as Israel should act with more retraint and responsibility than they have.

They are as bad as each other.

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

I never said that, but the fact of the matter is the U.S. is not practicing genocide to gain territory now, is it?  I seem to remember the U.S. doing something in Bosnia/Herzegovina when the same actions were taking place.  Where's the balance?  You want me to be fair, well, we did something about that, but we do nothing about Israel and condemn Palestine and Hezbollah for fighting back...there is no double standard, it's about what is RIGHT.

Its all about double standard!! You propose to hold Israel to a code of conduct which has been agreed upon by most of the other nations in the world. I put it to you that the code of conduct is what is considered to be the right way to behave. How can you then say that that standard does not apply to those people attacking Israel? If you want Israel to behave in the right way then you also should want the others to behave in the right way. Once again, you and I are treading very familiar territory; with your complete refusal to address everything that is going on.

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

Personally, I don't believe Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization.

HM1{N} wrote:

Hezbollah didn't launch a single rocket [into a civilian population centre]... Is what Hezbollah did with rockets wrong? Yes

How about you quote the whole sentence instead of pulling an Israeli media blitz and making my statement seem like I totally deny that Hez launched rockets into civilian areas?  Here is my exact quote:

HM1{N} wrote:

Hezbollah didn't launch a single rocket until 2 days of Israeli carptet bombing and artillery fire on civilian areas had passed.  Is what Hezbollah did with rockets wrong?  Yes.  Can I understand why?  Yes.  It's tit-for-tat out there, you kill my civilians, I kill yours.

Nowhere did I say that Hez didn't fire rockets into civilian areas, did I?

Jainus wrote:

You claim that Israel are terrorists because they target civilians and use terrorist tactics. By you own posts, Hezbollah have launched rockets targeting civilian villages. You claim its not about balance but about what is right... reread what you yourself wrote about Hezbollah launching those rockets. How can you possibly now try to hold that Hezbollah are not a terrorist organisation? How can you pin 100% of the blame on Israel when by your own posts you know what Hezbollah is doing is wrong? I'm not trying to absolve Israel of blame, I'm trying to get you to see that both sides are guilty as sin and your repeated anti-Israel attacks do not hold with what you profess your beliefs to be.

I said I don't believe they are, they are a defense force created to combat the illegal Israeli occupation of Lebanon.  It was until Israel started carpet bombing civilians that they returned the favor by firing missiles into civilian areas.  In this case, it's Israel once again being the terrorists and Hezbollah giving them back what they gave to Lebanon.  I guess in your mind that makes Hezbollah terrorists, in my mind it's tit-for-tat.

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

it's about what is RIGHT... Is what Hezbollah did with rockets wrong? Yes.

Moving on,

HM1{N} wrote:

I never said that Hez was innocent.  In fact I acknowledged their taking of the Israeli soldiers.  I understand both sides, but what people don't realize is that Israels PUBLIC side is one of lies and deception.

Both sides are using propaganda and both sides are presenting a public side of lies. You have yet again failed to address the other side of the fence.

What side would that be?  I addressed the facts about the situation.

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

That whole area in the middle-east has been the victim of the Israeli war machine for decades.  The PLO, Hamas and Hezbollah were created in response to Israel's terrorist actions.  If you are looking for the root cause, look no further than Israel, because if it didn't exist, either would those organizations formed to fight it.

So whilst Hezbollah, Hamas, PLO etc have the right to defend themselves against the aggression of others after decades, the Jews who have been the victims of countless peoples for hundreds of years have no such right. But remember people,

HM1{N} wrote:

there is no double standard, it's about what is RIGHT.

The double standard that you are promoting is getting out of control and I'm what? Half way through your post? Less?

So what if they suffered for hundreds of years, they have been the aggressor for thousands of years, murdering people always to take their land and resources.  Read some real history prior to the writing of the bible and you will see that Israel was the first and primary aggressor (terrorist if you will).

What the Jews suffered inWWII does not give Israel carte blance to practice the same thing today in the middle-east.

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

As far as the hate on both sides go, Israel hates anyone that isn't a Zionist Jew. The Israeli political agenda is one of mass annexation and extermination of all those in that area that aren't Jewish.

Nothing short of complete bollocks and I'm ashamed to think that someone as intelligent as you would even think to try and get away with saying such horse shit. I've been to Israel. I'm a white Scot thats religiously agnostic. I still seem to be in full possession of all my extremities. What your saying isn't based in reality. Whilst i agree that Muslims in Israel are treated as second class citizens, they are not being exterminated in a mass genocide are they? Do not try and pull that shit on me again, stick to the facts.

What is happening is Palestine?  Did you go there?  The rosy hills of Israel do not equal the slums that Israel has turned Palestine into.  What about the murdered children and grandmothers, sisters and mothers that Israel kills by bulldozing homes with the occupants in them?  What about the men shot in the street because the IDF soldier didn't want him going to the store?  WHY DOES ISRAEL TO THIS DAY STILL ILLEGALLY OCCUPY PALESTINE AND TAKE IT'S LAND, 40 YEARS AFTER THE U.N. SAID TO STOP?  If you really think that Israel is not practicing genocide, then you aren't half as smart as you appear to be...

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

The Palestinians and Hezbollah have a RIGHT to defend themselves, and they have a RIGHT to hate Israel for it's actions.  That's what people need to understand.  Peace in the middle-east must start with Israel abiding by international law, something they have never done.

Again, everyone else has the right to defend themselves and fight against Israel, but you would deny that same right to the Israeli's. Israel has not complied with international law (which imo it should. If your going to sanction Iran for example for non-compliance then Israel also needs to be reigned in) but then the people blowing up the buses of Israeli civilians aren't exactly complying either are they?

That's what I've said all along, we (the U.S. needs to stop supporting Israel).  Quit trying to ignore what I have said in the past.  Israel is the aggressor here, and has been since it's states inception, even before that because it became a state through terrorism.

Jainus wrote:

Lets all say it together,

HM1{N} wrote:

there is no double standard, it's about what is RIGHT.

HM1{N} wrote:

History has shown over and over that when a peace deal there is reached, it is typically Israel that breaks it, then spins the media to claim the other side is at fault.  Example: Israel warships shells civilians on holiday on the beach during a truce.  Then a suicide bomber blows himself up in Israel.

Finally your onto something where i agree with you. I haven't researched every instance of the ceasefires and how they were broken, but I would tend to agree with you here. I would say that its not exclusively Israel that breaks them.

That may have been a harsh statement on my part, but almost everything I have seen points to Israel not abiding by the truces...

Jainus wrote:

HM1{N} wrote:

Will I cry foul? No.  Do I think Israel could take them without the backing of the U.S.?  No.  If the U.S. stops funding them the war is over out there, Israel, through sheer numbers of the opposition alone, would have to concede and start abiding by international law.  A war with Syria, Iran, Egypt, Jordan, etc...would decimate Israel (without our backing).

Do you think that Hezbollah, Hamas, PLO etc could take Israel if the backing of Iran, Syria and others was taken away as well as the U.S. aid? I don't, the terrorists organisations would get slaughtered. If the other nations attacked Israel, would Israel have the right to defend herself against them? Would the U.S. and the other allies of Israel have the right to come to her aid against the alliance of Iran, Syria, etc? One-on-one even without the help of the U.S., Israel would kick the living hell out of any of them. If they allied together to take Israel i think Israel would have a case to ask her allies to help don't you?

It wouldn't be Hamas, PLO, etc... fighting Israel, it would be the foreign nation's armys, and that makes a big difference.

Yes Israel would have a right to defend itself, but we are it's only ally at this point.  Aside from us they probably wouldn't get much help, and if we didn't help...you know the answer to that.

Would we have the right?  Maybe, should we? NO, not until Israel abides by the law.

One on one Israel would win, but I don't see that happening.  It would be a gang rape of mass proportions and Israel would most likely cease to exist before we could step in.

Yes Israel would ask, but most of the Euro's would probably say no, Oil is more precious than religion to them, and we know where their bread is buttered...

Jainus wrote:

Unfortunately I'm typing this whilst I'm at work and i don't have time to finish going through your post. I'll try and finish it tonight

Last edited by HM1{N} (2006-08-31 08:36:15)

EricTViking wrote:

lowing wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Lowing, as always you keep the debate very low, that's why the nick?
Your narrow mind doesn't let you see things clear.  None of us, the terrorists lap dogs liberals, are supporting terrorists.  The point here is to end this fucking war, and the only thing you have to say is the bullshit you always talk about the liberals.  Why don't you get yourself a history book, or clean the virus that fucked your pc coz your viewpoints are so wrong.  So, we must think you are not getting the proper info or you don't get it at all.

You want PEACE AT ANY PRICE.......YOU want to negotiate with terrorists give them what they want and pray they leave you alone. I am not for any of that. I want the war over as well. I want a world of peace for me and my family, but I do not condone succumbing to terrorism for it.

So if you lived in Southern Lebanon as a law abiding citizen, and an Israeli LGB had just killed your family, would you want the Israelis to keep bombing?