Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|7091
this isn't really a new idea, just fleshed out more fully. how about if you had to have a license before you could use a vehicle on ranked servers? the intention here is to make sure new players familiarise themselves with vehicles before being allowed to use them in ranked play. unranked servers and single player have no need for this kind of enforcement.

the license would be acquired offline, by taking a predefined test that requires the player to perform certain maneuvers in each vehicle class. there would be a tutorial that teaches the new player about each class of vehicles, how to operate them, and familiarises them with the use of weapons and countermeasures on that vehicle. armor, helos, and jets would each have its own license. the tutorials/tests for the helo and jet will also include a section on basic gunning, but there will be no gunner license.

after the tutorial, there would be the test, and when the test is passed you get a badge in BFHQ which qualifies you to operate vehicles in combat. people can also skip the tutorial and go straight to the test, to allow veterans on new accounts fast access to the game. if you don't have a license, then you will not be allowed to DRIVE that class of vehicle. when you enter the vehicle, you are automatically placed in the gunner/passenger seat, and you will not be able to switch to the driver position.

this license should be intuitive and relatively straightforward to obtain. though ideally it shouldn't take long to get, that part is dependent on the player's skill. the idea isn't to block people from being able to use vehicles, but rather making sure that every player has a basic knowledge of the vehicles before heading off to combat.

i toyed with the idea of multiple classes of licenses, each corresponding to progressively harder tests that require target shooting, advanced maneuvers, and the like. higher ranked drivers would get priority in getting vehicles. but after considering all the angles, i decided that this would be too complex and takes focus away from accumulating real combat experience, which is still the best and only teacher in the end. another big issue is exactly how high ranked license holders would get priority over others, enforcement would have to be arbitrary and annoying. do they get to kick lower ranking drivers out of the vehicle, effectively 'car jacking' it? and how would that work on aircraft, which can't be car jacked? i couldn't come up with real solutions to these problems, so decided against license classes altogether. there would only be one class, just enough to ensure basic proficiency. the rest will have to be learned the old fasioned way.

EDIT:

several people have raised concerns that since the license test is administered locally, purely on the client, that people can hack it and get the license without going through the test. i would think that this isn't a problem, for two reasons. one, the test is not supposed to be frustrating and shouldn't take very long. it simply wouldn't be worth the time and effort to hack it. two, the test is designed for new players who have no idea what they're doing. chances are, if you're a l33t hax0r and can hack the game to give you a license, you're probably pretty good at videogames too and didn't need it in the first place.

Last edited by Krappyappy (2005-12-02 22:23:44)

notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7018|The United Center
i really like this idea.

for driving, there should be a course where you have to maneuver around obstacles...things jump out in front of you and you have to stop or avoid them...

if you fail, you should have to wait like 5 days and spend an hour in single player driving around vehicles before you can retake the test.
THA
im a fucking .....well not now
+609|7042|AUS, Canberra
i think its a silly idea,
what are they going to gain out of it?
nothing more than about 20 seconds in a vehicle in ranked play will teach you. ie : forwards backwards left and right. its not hard and the reason people stuff up in them is stupidity not lack of driving ability.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|7091
the tutorial/test also covers basic weapons and countermeasures knowledge. just because the thread topic is 'driver's license' doesn't mean it's only concerned with movement. also, things like vertical/shortened takeoffs, which are MANDATORY in order for USMC jets to get off the carrier, would be taught to the new player.

it's easy for veterans to think that this is silly, because we already know all this stuff.
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7018|The United Center
hmmm, good point.

then...how about an IQ test and not letting stupid people play?
THA
im a fucking .....well not now
+609|7042|AUS, Canberra

ThomasMorgan wrote:

hmmm, good point.

then...how about an IQ test and not letting stupid people play?
yes! an iq test should be implimented!!!
-(PK)-DarkIllusion
Member
+1|7111
sort of like America's Arty basic training b4 u go online... i kinda like it.. but som ppl r gonna get pissed off by it...
Dirrty_Bird
Dirtier than thou
+5|7012|Vermont
I don't liekthe idea to begin with, and even if I did, the test would be so comically easy that it wouldn't really improve the overall ability of people in vehicles.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|7091
yes, it's difficult to draw the line in difficulty.....

the test shouldn't be so hard that it frustrates people. but if it's easy then people aren't learning anything. after all, if the newbie learns how to take off and gets airborne successfully, he'll still get shot down. either way, he's dead.

i still think there should be a more involved tutorial than the popup menus when you first get in. even if there's not license requirement, tutorials should be included. and if the tutorials were optional, they could be get really hard, and people really WOULD learn something.
Mafia47
Member
+27|7012|Chicago
this is a video games remember...not everyone would like to go through all those steps just to drive cars on certain vehicals...yeah it would help everything and it would make it so you don't hope in a full black hawk and the piolot can't fly so he ends up crashing right away...but some people just like to go on and mess around and not have to worry about getting a game license to mess around a bit...otherwise not that bad of an idea
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|7091
in my first post i specified that the license would only apply to ranked servers. people who want to mess around can do it all they like in single player and unranked servers.
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7034

If any of you have played the Gran Turismo line of games, I'm sure you're aware of how tutorials and training sessions can be worth playing and can pose a challenge, as well as improve your skill. Usually the first line of challenges lets you get used to the driving, such as starting, stopping, turning etc. You get the feel for the inertia of the car, how long it would take you to stop, width of turns, etc etc.

However, the sillyness stops there and pretty soon you're getting into some advanced training that will whip your ass to get it right. This improves your skill by quite a bit, since you start to learn about the apex in turns, and about your speed entering and exiting a curve, etc.

I think MMP (massive multiplayer) games would benefit from this if it was implemented in a similar fashion to a post I read a while back. Basically you have a skill grade assigned to you for a particular vehicle, depending on how your training went, and how many "levels" you have passed. This in turn gives your precedence over driving vehicles in game so that better players naturally get the vehicles since they should be able to help out the team best. This could be the system implemented only on ranked servers for example, or maybe a second level of ranked servers, which are meant to be more competitive. That way there's still many servers that are just free for all.

I forsee a couple problems with this system, particularly since some people might be great drivers but do nothing to help out their team. (affectionatelly known as tank whores) For this reason, they could add training/qualification sessions that depend on your ability to help out your team, not just taking out people for your own stats. This way, the higher precedence goes to better team players above all.

For a team-work example: a "drive your buddies to the back flag at karkand" training session, with pre-scripted bot action (AI would be cool, but we need consistent tests here) to try and stop you. If you get there safely, you pass the test.

For a combat example: Have a semi damaged tank in the middle of battle, you as an engineer, and 5 enemies waiting to waste you. Your mission is to take out all of them without losing your tank.

Now, before any of you start with your "but that'd be so hard to code" and "there's no way you can do that" attitutes, just allow yourself to roam free and picture some thing like this, where the developers actually work with AI to get a good training system implemented. Sure this might seem silly to some of you, but hey, it'd be a nice addition to the lack of single player we have right now.

After your training time, you get your license like this post suggests, maybe with different classes depending on how many of the trainings you have passed, time you have practiced, etc. Thus ranking you in skill for in-game vehicles. Ok, well that's enough delusions from me, I just happen to really like the GT training levels and just imagined it'd be cool to have something like that in game.

Oh yea, and last, these missions don't have to be extremely hard or anything, they could be straight forward and all... but like in GT, even the first training mission where you have to start from a complete stop, drive 100m, and stop within a marked area... you can do it on the first couple of tries, but to get that gold medal it takes you a decent amout of time. (Which kinda makes it like a mini-game).

Cheerio. GotMex?

Edit: Oh yea I forgot to say: "So basically, I'm all for what the thread starter is saying"

Last edited by GotMex? (2005-12-02 23:22:52)

Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|7091
gotmex, how do you think the precedence for better players should work?

obviously it makes sense if player A has a higher license class than player B, and they both try to enter a vehicle at the same time, player A would get the vehicle.

but that rarely happens in game, someone usually gets there before someone else.

so should the higher ranked player be able to kick the other player out? what else can you do to specifically to make this precedence thing work?
THA
im a fucking .....well not now
+609|7042|AUS, Canberra
i still think its a silly idea, grand tuorismo had that because its a driving game only and it added to the gameplay experience, and thats the only reason it had it. having that in bf2 would just be stupid as its not a driving bassed game. and whats the point of having these tests if everyone is saying they would be very easy anyway?
like i said in my forst post its stupidity not driving skill that causes the probs on bf2.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|7091
if you could give some real reasons, other than 'it's stupid,' maybe we could have some meaningful discussion. and the purpose of the tests being easy were outlined very specifically in my first post. perhaps you should read more carefully.

Last edited by Krappyappy (2005-12-03 00:03:38)

THA
im a fucking .....well not now
+609|7042|AUS, Canberra

Krappyappy wrote:

if you could give some real reasons, other than 'it's stupid,' maybe we could have some meaningful discussion. and the purpose of the tests being easy were outlined very specifically in my first post. perhaps you should read more carefully.
well if you re-read my las post you will see my reason.......so dont start telling people to read more carfully when you clearly dont do so yourself.

anyway as i said earlier, tests would make zero difference to the game on ranked servers all they would do is turn people away as they will get the shits i if they dont get to drive/fly becuase a guy who is better got the seat.
and dont anyone start with "well the better person should get it" because thats bullshit as everyone paid for they're game and not one person has ownership of any vehicle over anyone else.
the only reason this idea was posted is becuase someone has had a bad experience with someone driving like a tool....well guess what, welcome to online gaming...its life, deal with it. there is thousands of servers to choose from so if your on one fulll of flogs crashing and being nightmares find another. the vehicles in this game are so piss easy to drive that i read another post on here where a guy made an account for his 7 yr old son , and when i looked at his stats he had tank kills. here are his stats http://bf2s.com/player/HarryRex/
so if he can do it im pretty sure anyone can do it without to much trouble.

edit, i said silly not stupid and it was an opinion not a reason, so please understand the interpretaion before you start quoting me.

Last edited by the_heart_attack (2005-12-03 00:45:26)

GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7034

Krappyappy: There was a discussion about how the precedence would work, with people suggesting that if a higher ranked player (by ranked I really mean skill btw) wanted to take a vehicle, they should be able to kick the lower player out. However, this seemed kinda unfair so an idea was brought up about you getting "locked-in" to a vehicle after a predetermined amount of time.

Basically, lets say you get in the tank and 5 seconds later a higher ranked person comes and tries to take it, they would move you to the gunner seat (even if someone else was in there first) and they would become driver. However if this happens after say 1 min, like when you already drove all the way to the battlefront, you would be the defined locked in driver till the vehicle dies. Essentially, we are mixing skill based precedence, and a first come first serve system. Hopefully, most people would be happy with this.

However, I know gamers, and we are a picky bunch... that is why I suggest a 2nd tier of ranked servers which are more competitive where we could apply these skill based competencies, thus leaving regular ranked servers for more casual gamers.

the_heart_attack: I've always had this dream, call me crazy, but I would love it if a game would include lots of different genres within the game. Take BF2, strictly a FPS right? Ok well my ideal would be if they like mixed driving games, fps, gta style game play, whatever you can think of. So while BF2 might not be a driving game, I would love it if it included content that would make it have a driving component (i'm not sure if that makes sense, but work with me). So like I was saying with the GT training, it'd be a mini part of the game, that you can chose to engage in if you wish. And I don't suggest they be easy, they should be doable, but to get top scores they should be challenging. I know, I'm crazy and weird but this is what I would like in a game. Multi-demension gaming or something.
THA
im a fucking .....well not now
+609|7042|AUS, Canberra

GotMex? wrote:

the_heart_attack: I've always had this dream, call me crazy, but I would love it if a game would include lots of different genres within the game. Take BF2, strictly a FPS right? Ok well my ideal would be if they like mixed driving games, fps, gta style game play, whatever you can think of. So while BF2 might not be a driving game, I would love it if it included content that would make it have a driving component (i'm not sure if that makes sense, but work with me). So like I was saying with the GT training, it'd be a mini part of the game, that you can chose to engage in if you wish. And I don't suggest they be easy, they should be doable, but to get top scores they should be challenging. I know, I'm crazy and weird but this is what I would like in a game. Multi-demension gaming or something.
that would be pretty cool.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|7091
gotmex: the timer lock-in idea is interesting. there could also be a score based system, where if you got a certain number of points/kills in the vehicle, you would get the locked status, even if the timer wasn't up. as for multidimensionality, that would be really easy to do, actually. just make new badges/medals/etc for being a good buggy driver, or something similar. say you have to drive a certain number of people a certain distance under fire, for example. i do agree that bf2 is sorely in need of more gameplay modes. there is irony in the fact that BF is a victim of its own success. we like it so much we buy it without demanding the variety that any other game would have been required to have. can you imagine if ut2k4 was released with only deathmatch? we put up with EA's subpar support because we like the game, but that just makes it easier for them to shaft us on features.

the_heart_attack: the only point in your post that qualifies as real discussion and not fluff is 'since the tests are easy they won't do anything anyway.' my point is that it might not do anything for people who know how to play the game, but they're not the ones the newbie-trainer program is designed to help in any case. since you insist on not comprehending what i've already explained, i'll spell it out elementary school-like. if you're good, then the tests will be easy. if you don't know what you're doing, then they won't be easy.

yes, everyone paid for their game. i did too. as soon as you introduce a 'ranked play' system, you imply that there is a degree of competition or professionalism involved. i paid money to play on this ranked system, and i have a right to expect that anyone else in those games should not be totally clueless as to how to play the game. that's the critical difference between a ranked play system and just plain online gaming. ranked implies regulation.

Last edited by Krappyappy (2005-12-03 11:45:21)

THA
im a fucking .....well not now
+609|7042|AUS, Canberra

Krappyappy wrote:

the_heart_attack: the only point in your post that qualifies as real discussion and not fluff is 'since the tests are easy they won't do anything anyway.'

the_heart_attack wrote:

grand tuorismo had that because its a driving game only and it added to the gameplay experience, and thats the only reason it had it.
keep trying.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7046|Noizyland

That is one of the most stupidest ideas I have heard. People play games to escape from the real world as such. I like the fact that if I want to I can be a dumbass behind the wheel.
I can't even begin to think how stupid this idea is... got to get focused here.
- How can you get a "gaming drivers licence?"
- What if you fail? You can't use the game and enjoy it as much as everyone else?
- What about pilot's licences? Tank licences?
- WHO THE FUCK CARES if an idiot takes a Humvee or light transport or a tank or a chopper or a jet? I'm sure you'll cope trying something else or maybe walking? It dosn't matter it's just a game. If you chose to get in the gunners seat of a pilot who crashes, BIG DEAL? The great thing about gaming is that you re-spawn, you're not dead. In real life, yes, I would not be the passenger of an unlicenced driver, or a drunk pilot, (yes, people drink and take drugs while playing online games, I know it's sad.)

It's just such a stupid and worthless idea!!!

No offence.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
iamamuts
Member
+2|7027|Lisse, Netherlands
thats the most retarded idea i ever heard!!!!!!
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7034

I feel like some of you restrict yourselves with the idea of a license too much and start to think about all the negative aspects possible. Like Tyferra said, how can you get a gaming drivers license... well how can you get gaming badges, and ribbons, and medals?!?! The whole point of those are to entice the player to embark on side-games or mini-games. I usually have fun trying to get my explosive badge because it forces me to play differently, and work towards a goal. They really are just symbolic representations of something you invested time in to achieve.

With regards to the driving, right now you get a badge for being in the car for a long time, and for killing lots of people... my point was that you can add an element in game which rates your driving skills based on your ability to pilot a vehicle (think racing games, which take into account not crashing, no damage, etc). The drivers license suggested here is just symbolic, like another badge, to mark you as a better driver/player. This could be adapted to choppers, jets, tanks, whatever. (Jets for example could test your evasive skills against other fighter pilots, choppers could test your hover ability, whatever).

"WHO THE FUCK CARES": Dude, lots of people care, I mean you hear bitching about noob drivers, tank whores, etc all the fucking time. Maybe you don't care so much about who is driving one of these tanks, and that is fine because in my idea, this sort of system would apply to a second level of ranked servers that strive to offer more competitive gameplay. If you don't give a rats ass who is driving, then by all means, play in a regular ranked server and get behind the wheel whenever you want. And while yes, it is just a game, in some ways I look for certain entertainment that I can't get in real life. I am never gonna be the pilot of a chopper, but in game I can do all the cool things I can think of without worries of getting hurt. So when some idiot comes and starts fucking around by tking me when I get in one, I get angry because it takes away from my enjoyable game time.

And iamanuts, I can think of many more retarded ideas than this, like jumping off a building with an umbrella, so don't speak too soon...
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|7115|Bryan/College Station, TX
I like the driver license idea but personally I believe it should be limited to piloting. Helicopters and Jets.
One would exist for each class as well. Transport, Attack helicopters and then Interceptor and Strike aircraft.

I wouldn't necessary prevent people from getting into land/sea based vehicles because those are necessary to play on some maps but not everyone needs to use the Heli or jet to do things. These vehicles specifically I support for the "Flying License" limitation.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
H0ly(rap
Member
+10|6992|Nebraska
yea this would be a pretty good ideer to put in the game but again, just another thing to make the game more realistic and unfortunatly never gona happen...*sigh*

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