BF2S Forums One missing army...

bs6749 wrote:

shspunkrockr wrote:

chitlin wrote:

nothing beats the military might of the american navy seal, marine corps green berret, and army rangers ..

any other opinon can lick my hairy beanbag ^^

all other organizations attempt to emulate the perfection that is the american war machine =0

did u say "Marine Corps Green Beret" or "Marine Corps, Green Beret"?

Let's post a dumbass comment because he forgot a comma. Great catch. I don't think that I would have understood what he was sawing without your helpful post, really. I mean, I often wonder...Is it the Marine Corps AND Green Berets, or is it the Marine Corps Green Berets? Thanks to you I have FINALLY figured out which it really is. It is the Marine Corps Green Berets just as he had originally stated.

Seems like its Moron Monday.  Marines are not Green Berets just as many have already posted.  The comma comments was to ensure the poster/reader knew the difference between US Marines and US Army Green Berets.  What is SAWING, by the way?  You mean SAYING?   Don't throw stones slick and pay better attention in class because we don't hire dropouts.

so leme get this straight .. rebels that speak russian, but not specifically named chechnyan, fighting spetsnaz is not contrversial? i think anyone with brains can easily connect the dots and know what it is .. not techninally naming them does not remove any chance for controversy.....

i dont think the mec is just a cover intead of calling them iraq ..i think it was a move to have a more viable opponent as iraq's army fell pretty quickly ..

china vesus us isnt controversial ? sas vs spetsnaz ... its entirely subjective what would offend you .. i could easily see a russian or a chinese or a middle eastern allready being offended ...

furthermore there are other games like ghost recon and rainbow six in said potentially offensive screnarios that are not in the news. i think maybe because its not a console but i dont think the reasoning israel wasnt included was just so they didnt ruffle feathers

The comma comments was to ensure the poster/reader knew the difference between US Marines and US Army Green Berets.

yeah umm maybe you didnt read it but he didnt correct it by changing marines to army he just took out the r and added a comma .. so yeah ....good eye jackass..
and way to prepetuate it by correcting his typo ...i get the whole grammar nazi thing but seriously get over it ..he knows how to spell SAYING and hit the wrong key ..maybe instead of you spending your time being anal and proofreading forums try actually having something worthwhile to say ..

i wouldnt hav downloaded SF, let alone buy SF if IDF was in it. american SF and british SF are classics, there hav to be in a game which involves SFs. WOT aus got a SF. here a little story about bush, and how american sfs work.

SO bush went to a skol in american, and asks the kids to ask him a questions , like a lil QaA thing.
SO billy, says:
where osma bin larden?
where the weapons of mass murder?
how comes u became president when the other dude got more votes?

then the bell goes, the kids go out to play, when they come back, bush is there and the QaA session comtinues.

so a little gal called milly asks the following questions:
where osma bin larden?
where the weapons of mass murder?
how comes u became president wth the other dude got more votes?
y did the bell go half an hour early?
where is billy ?

THE END

y cant they hav UN SF , that would be sick. technologies  of all EU JOINED. and much higher standered of soldiers.

Last edited by mafia996630 (2005-12-05 13:01:45)

the sas and especially the aust sas train\advise the elite sf of their allies usually seals and gbs.the sas are not one skilled they are experts in all forms of combat.1 aussie sas injured in iraq only.they must have the best k:d ratio in the world.

SAS rocks! THEY ARE THE BEST

mafia996630 wrote:

i wouldnt hav downloaded SF, let alone buy SF if IDF was in it. american SF and british SF are classics, there hav to be in a game which involves SFs. WOT aus got a SF. here a little story about bush, and how american sfs work.

SO bush went to a skol in american, and asks the kids to ask him a questions , like a lil QaA thing.
SO billy, says:
where osma bin larden?
where the weapons of mass murder?
how comes u became president when the other dude got more votes?

then the bell goes, the kids go out to play, when they come back, bush is there and the QaA session comtinues.

so a little gal called milly asks the following questions:
where osma bin larden?
where the weapons of mass murder?
how comes u became president wth the other dude got more votes?
y did the bell go half an hour early?
where is billy ?

THE END

y cant they hav UN SF , that would be sick. technologies  of all EU JOINED. and much higher standered of soldiers.

Dshak please answer this.. U R soo good at it. lol I am  just at a loss for words.

im simply saying that not technically naming them chechnyans take absolutely nothing away from its potential for cotroversy.. furthermore if they were so sensitive then they would not have called the insurgents insurgents and gave them the mahdi army flag...which to me at least is much more inflammatory considering how active this conflict is .... chechnya has 2 offical languages chanyan and russian and it is not only ex soviets who speak russian ...

considering there is tension between the united states and china and has the potential to be a much larger conflict than anything else in bf2 id say it might be the most controversial... and you dont know what youre talkiing about in refrence to chinas nues ..thier space program still in its infacy only has the ability to leave orbit and return, they still dont have icbm's and at this time could not lauch a large scale nuclear attack from that far away..plus you cant know how the war would be fought ..seeing as how there has been only 2 nukes used in wars and none in 60 years


there are no insurgents in syria huh ? i duno where you get your news from but from what ive read and seen thats the number one source of insurgents.. although there are no operations inside syria to my knowledge..

you can call a duck a dog but its not going to convince anyone or keep anyone from being offended

Flasheart88 wrote:

At best you are justifying their behaviour by suggesting that they did the same to their own people. At worst you are saying that the 'actual' case was that they were not 'excessively cruel'. Your further description of the atrocities as 'endeavours' further reinforces the latter implication. Even if you are inferring the former, there is an intrinsic difference between the persecution by a government of its own people in fuedal times and the persecution by an invading force of an occupied people during the 20th century. That aside, one atrocity does not excuse another. The bombing of London by the luftwaffe did not justify the annihilation of Dresden. The tragedy of the Japanese occupation will, I imagine, not be forgotten in my lifetime. The damage to Chinese pride will last long after all the victims and children of the victims have passed on.

Why were statutes such as the Geneva Convention adopted? It is precisely because of the difference in values. Before the Industrial Revolution, the continents were isolated places where varied cultures flourished. The advent of improved communication in recent times allowed for cultures to meet and mix. "Excessively Cruel" is determined by culture and social values;  to the Japanese, that was the way they've done it, and there wasn't too much of an international standard to which they could check their behaviour against. In fact, the notion of 'persecution by invidating force of an occupied people during the 20th century' didn't even make sense; it's a pretty recent idea.

The founding fathers of the US of A kept slaves. Yet, is it fair to judge them by today's standards? Or should we evaluate them with the values which they held, at that time.

Ah... I am not taking any side... think about it though.

Again, quoting 'Excessively Cruel' was because it is both Excessively Cruel and not, at the same time, depending on where you are coming from. Endeavour was quoted also because, again, depending on how you look at it, could be positive, negative or neutral. Following my reasoning above. I am mindful that someone reading might be Japanese, and might not have the same take as you.

I gather from how you disect my words: quoting something negative gives it a positive connotation, as with "Excessively Cruel". However, the reverse is applied when you read "Endeavour". To actually be reinforcing your notion that I am actually sympathetic to the Japanese argument, I'd have to use negative words in quotes, like "Atrocities", or "Crimes".

I am brought up in Singapore, where one would always be reminded of the Japanese Occupation which lasted for 3yrs and 8mths. I don't feel that the cruelty is justified. However, I do not exclude the possibility that I might feel that it is, suppose if I am a Japanese *and* lived in those times; thats my point, and it goes along with the other idea that values are circumstantial and not universal.

Was it Japanese Imperialism? Was it reactionary due to US Oil Embargo? Whatever; its up to one's understanding. What bugs me about the current tensions would be how governments make use of history, and the fervour of, to distract people away from what's happening infront of their eyes. I'll leave it as such.

Flasheart88 wrote:

Mine was not an auto-flaming response. I found what you said to be very offensive. So I replied accordingly. I fully respect your right to say whatever you like. As so should you respect mine to conclude that your statements are crack-induced. Which is obviously a whimsical response, intended to lighten the mood slightly, but perhaps you missed that.

I guess I did missed the 'whimsical' aspect of your response.

Ok, I served in the military and I have watched many SF forces work, and I have done research on alot, and I can ttell you that the "Mine is bigger than yours" contest is stupid, and heres why...

SAS and US SF are Two completly diffrent things...

1) SAS is not really a SPECIAL FORCES. They do covert missions but they arent special forces, they are just an elite force of soldiers that are just considered superior than most, and I know what Im about to say is gonna stir up some flams, but the SAS are more like Rangers than SF. Not to say the SAS isnt over better then the Rangers, but the thing is, the SAS is just an elite unit.

2) US Special forces are split into groups. The reason they are called special forces arent because they special... its because they Specialise in an area. Such as, one unit is more for CQB Urban operations, one unit is more for Jungle operations. The reason the US calls them special forces is because they have them specialise in an area, and it goes deeper than just CQB and so forth. We have special forces dedicated to Search and Rescue missions for when its riskier than sending in a normal CSAR team.

But honestly, to those of you who say the SAS are all powerful and mighty, You should have watched the military channel last week, they had a thing on an SAS Operation back in Desert Storm. Heres the summary of what happened...

1) The unit got split up... an 8 man unit... got split up... They didn't have comms to talk to eachother with. One have of the unit kicked a civilian out of their car and stole it... The other unit held a civilian hostage to get a ride. One unit broke into 2 groups, one with 2 men one with 3. When one of the groups engaged a unit, the other half ran because they heard gun shots. The other Unit that held a guy hostage, left one of their men for dead in the desert after he took a shot and was getting dehydrated. Later, when their was only two of the, the guy left his not yet dead teammate in a barn to make a mad run for the Iraq border.

In the end, 3 of them were captured and told the Iraqi's everything about the operation..

Also, their mission planners didn't have enough information of the area, they didnt plan the mission out well enough, and, they didn't even give the unit enough ammo to last a full day.

And here is part of hte reason I think US SF holds a slightly higher bar than the SAS...

As the rangers in Somolia showed best... we leave NO man behind...

Last edited by HavocDemon (2005-12-05 21:26:22)

the australian sas is the best

Last edited by emperorphoenix (2005-12-05 21:38:12)

jhoo8116 wrote:

Was it Japanese Imperialism? Was it reactionary due to US Oil Embargo? Whatever; its up to one's understanding. What bugs me about the current tensions would be how governments make use of history, and the fervour of, to distract people away from what's happening infront of their eyes. I'll leave it as such.

Appreciated. Perspectives not from the mainstream flamers are seldomly heard outside Japan, or academia.

I am Japanese, and I didn't expect this...... anti-Japanese thingy to spill onto BF2 forums.

I envy the Europeans being able to reconcile. The (previous) German Chancellor took part in the WWII victory memorial ceremony or something like that a while ago...... the first German Chancellor to do so since the war.

What we have in Asia, would be governments that fuels anti-Japanese sentiments to achieve political gains. Have we not apologized enough? It was bad, we acknowledge. We sincerely apologised. You want to kill an equal number of us, now, before being satiated?

The distinction between Germans and Nazis seems more readily made than Japanese and Imperial Japan.

I studied in Australia a while back and made friends with some Chinese (by race) friends. They seem to automatically assume the moral 'highground' when WWII is brought up. It's like something we will not get a middle ground out of. I could never suggest: "... true, Imperial Japan did in fact do all that... but there are such and such factors..." The discussion will become pretty senseless thereafter.

It's touchy.

It's more than Japanese Imperialism vs. Oil Embargo. I am sure you know that. Winners write history. Appreciated.

mtc wrote:

The distinction between Germans and Nazis seems more readily made than Japanese and Imperial Japan.

Being half Japanese myself I think I can come up with a few reasons I believe this feeling or this thought process still exists.

1. Asian culture and understand of asian methods is hard for many to understand and it's much easier to understand another western culture over an eastern culture when you are brought up in a western culture.

2. The documentation of Nazi Germany and how it became the way it was is quite numerous. Many different authors have written on this subject and the subject of WWII in Western Europe. However very few authors of note have written about Japan and how it came to become Imperialistic. This is reflected in published western history books as well. Few here know what the Edo Period is in Japan but many more know what the Victorian Era in Europe or the US is.

3. Japan and it's culture is alien to many western people. The methods people take, the religions, the way they interact, their social growth, their holidays.. everything. It's all very foreign and misunderstood by most western cultures. With exception of Hawaii and California and a few pockets in other areas there isn't much of a Japanese cultural understanding. There is much more Chinese understanding however for some reason they are viewed in a completely different light than the Japanese. Probably because they have interacted with western cultures much longer than the Japanese. After the Spice Trade had been going on for centuries before the Portugese and other Western cultures started trading and interacting with Japan. Plus there are many many more German immigrants and descendants in the US and other western areas then there are Japanese. Hence more people interact with the German culture on a regular basis than the Japanese.

When was the last time someone went to a Seijin No Hi Festival, or a Shichi Go San Matsuri, or a Cherry Blossom Festival?  Meanwhile all kinds of people in western culture go to Oktoberfest or sometimes even Starkbierzeit.

So number one reason I think people can't get over the Japanese in the way you are saying is Western Cultures just don't understand Eastern Cultures and few ever make an attempt to do so.

Ignorance is the reason.

Gambate!

Last edited by kilroy0097 (2005-12-06 02:43:52)