BF2S Forums Reducing Spawn Camping

The issue that that creates Jodah is the fact that it would be a huge advantage to the defending team if that happened. Say, for example, you have a teammate capturing a flag while you support him with your tank. Suddenly, a special ops spawns right behind your tank, and you get C4ed, no way to possibly counter it.

Ever play the old game Gauntlet? Remember those monster generators that would spawn ghosts and grunts? Imagine how difficult it would be to play that game if, after spawning a monster, the generator then warped somewhere else randomly around you. As it is, the way spawn camping is now, it's people's best attempt to plug the flow of new troops from these "monster generators"

Thanks Sud for adding another example of how that type of spawn system could create problems.

Well maybe, having 20 well positioned insertion points per flag would work, but I still think having randomly generated spawn points would create issues for both the defenders and attack force.

Thanks Sud for adding another example of how that type of spawn system could create problems.

Just a nice change to be in a civil conversation for once.

Either way, however spawn kills are changed, they still need to be coupled with the spawn queuing idea to reward attackers for actually diligently attacking and removing the enemy force.

Most of the fights that I'm starting to see are moron attackers running blindly into moron defenders and dying en masse to artillery and each other. It's so bad you have to search for revive opportunities in a 64 player server because of the really dumb battle dynamic.

The reason why the attackers are charging in like that is because it's their only chance to capture the flag. They HAVE to get the flag at least neutral, otherwise, it doesn't matter how many defenders they kill, they will simply replace themselves, and this continues until the game is decided by kill tickets, not by flag capturing.

What if, in addition to every flag's 3-6 insertion points their would be an additional 6-8 auxillary or secondary insertion points that would only be available if the flag in question is the last flag remaining for the team that controls it. These secondary insertion points could be positioned somewhere within a radius that is twice as far from the flag as the primary insertion points. Just to summarize, these secondary insertion points would only be available or active if the flag is the last remaining flag that the team controls.

Any thoughts on this approach?

It's not random, it's not invulnerability, a good attempt at a common ground, but I'm not quite convinced. First point to make, it only takes one person to camp a spawn. Karkand hotel as an example, you can have one person on fence alley, one person on archway, one person on the other two alleys. More insertion points would require more ground be covered, but it could still be done. In essence, it lessens the problem, but does not eliminate it, and does not touch on the bigger problem of mass numbers of respawns on defense, so I can't completely back it until the idea is formed more concretely.

Also, how much do we want to debate spawn locations when people should be forming squads and warping to their squad leader. I really need to make this point - do we really need to continue to devalue squads any more? Being spawn raped sometimes is the only thing that will encourage people to join a squad, as they really should be right from the get go. Is spawn raping truly the problem here, or is the problem that people are not squadding up? Food for thought.

Last edited by Sud (2005-12-06 14:51:57)

Sud wrote:

Is spawn raping truly the problem here, or is the problem that people are not squadding up? Food for thought.

I think it's true that people don't use the insertion point provided by their squad leader nearly as frequent or strategically as they should. However, many times all of the squad leaders are trapped at that last base being held by the defending team. I'm mostly thinking of cappable bases, such as playing MEC on Karkand or playing USMC on Sharqi.

Nothing pisses me off more than to join a server and be put on a team that has no bases. Even if I squad up, you can't spawn in on a squad leader if your team has no base.

This is going to go a little off topic but I want to bring this up:

Personally, I don't think that Dice should have made any map that has a team without an uncappable base unless they were going to force the map to be played as a two-round map that swapped team positions. Obviously, there are servers that can do this, but I think that it was irresponsible for Dice and EA to allow maps that can easily be exploited by one side. If I'm playing Karkand for example I'll win 90% of the time if I'm on USMC. If I'm on MEC I'd say that I only have a 40% chance of winning. By default, all things being equal, I think Karkand is favored toward a US victory over MEC with about a 70/30 ratio. As USMC you never have to fear that you'll lose all your bases and be capped out. As MEC, unless you have a functional team, there is a very good possibility that you'll be choked out and forced to one flag, which often will get capped and prematurely end the game. This is one example supporting why I think the last standing flag should have auxillary insertion points.

LG-MindBullets wrote:

Also RGB|Apocalypse said that the spawn points seem completely random. Well, it may seem that way but they aren't entirely random. If you ever mess around with the BF2 level editor and look at the spawn points you can see how they work. Basically, in the level editor you insert a flag, then you insert several other soldier insertion points that are connected to that flag. One flag might have anywhere between 2-6 insertion points for soldiers. Most only have about 3. If you know where those insertion points are then it's possible to completely pin a flag down, especially if it's the last flag the enemy team occupies.

Pardon me for only replying to your part here, its quite abit to read at work.

As I said, I don't mind having many spawn points at a flag, in fact, it is advantages to the one being camped that he can simply spawn further away instead of right smack-in-the-middle-in-front-of-enemy-tank. But this option is not available to be chosen and frankly, having your fate decided by the stupid game system sucks.

Adding to some of the points to this being a war game, and yes, I DO know that there is an entire thread on 'there is no such thing as spawn raping'. Think of it this way, if you are totally out-numbered, out-skilled, it don't matter if there is spawn immunity anyway. No arguement, you/your team plainly sucks. There is therefore no disadvantage to ANY side to have spawn immunity. Just to clarify, I would spawn camp if the opportunity allows anytime, nobody expects you to 'say hi' to the respawned-full-health enemy first.

I think spawning outside the line of sight of the enemy would be a big help.

LG-MindBullets wrote:

I think you're partly right in saying taht a brief spawn immunity wouldn't help most teams that are being base raped anyway, since it's very likely that they sucked to get into that situation. However, it would allow the few competent players on the team to at least have a spawn where they are not instantly killed in 0.01 seconds.

Yes, I totally agree on this despite some saying that it would be unfair to the attackers. That few seconds is all the difference a skilled player needs to find his direction and take on the fight. Instead of getting arse-raped before even standing up.

Think we all can generally agree that in place of having spawn immunity (too unfair to those trying to take flag?) being able to select exact spawn position would be of tremendous help.

I think people have forgot what spawn camping is.   Sitting and waiting and killing is spawn camping.  But a tank or chopper killing people as they spawn while their team members moves into action is not.  Nor is the other team kicking your ass while you have one flag.   Its called TEAM PLAY not spawn camping.  People just complain too much.  Anything that kicks their ass and takes too much EFFORT to overcome they dont like. 



So as for this "improvment" for spawn camping i say HELL NO!  Get some skill SQUAD UP and move out!

The 3-secs-invulnerable is a great idea,it is used in many other games and a lot of my deaths are because I spawned and got ripped into shreds by a baseraping tankwhore after 0.5 seconds in the game.

And the "just-spawn-somewhere-else"-argument is not appropriate,on your spawnpoint select screen you can't see any units,friendly or enemy!

But on the other hand it could be unfair for the tank,imagine 10 ATs spawning,running into cover and shooting their SRAWs.Swiss tank cheese.And no chance of defending itself for the tank.

I'm not sure about this...but since I'm not a tankwhore anyway - let's give it a try.

Last edited by Mj.Blindfisch (2006-01-16 18:38:08)

lol it is clear that even BF2 has captured the Armor spirit of Mobility-Firepower-Shock Effect!!! 

There should be no "fixing" of spawned players and "campers". What EA should do is explain their logic for arriving at the solutions they use for each part of the game that comes into question. Maybe high risk but also could be be an enlightening experience for us to understand why they did what they did when they made the game lol  even when we strongly disagree.

No guys, I guess you need to define what environment is important...sound military tactics or paintballer arenas with orange vested referees.  It is a very sound tactic to move and cover any approach to and from a critical objective (flag in this case). Ambushing enemy routes of resupply/attack is part of Infantry doctrine. If a commander or player decides that a particular flag is either vulnerable, places the team in jeapardy, is about to be captured or that is needs reconoitering then he has good call to not only be there at or near a flag but killin anything that rears up and shows red. And remember Tankers don't usually like driving up and parking right next to a target as if to order a hamburger, they prefer to stand-off and pound their enemies into history from beyond the enemy's reach.

At the point where you have no spawn points or SAFE spawn points remaining you must (and should anyway as infantry) spawn with a squad leader. You will see the really good clans doing it with high success in many situations. Since spawn points are so vital then apply the Principle of War "Security" clear the base.

As the other comment about not seeing anyone to spawn with, join their squad and hit ENTER key again in the spawn window and they will appear and continue until you see the little green dot.

Like Mr.Coleman said above "SQUAD UP and MOVE OUT!" oh and uh lets have fun out there

Last edited by OpsChief (2006-01-17 01:19:55)