leaving will only serve to further destabilize the region, the Iraqi government has made great strides politically, keep in mind that we were still fighting for our existence almost forty years after splitting from england, and it took us, what, 12 years or so to write the constitution, they pulled it off in 3 AND have had 3 major elections in spite of the threats to blow up the polling houses, the utility infrastructure was better 6 months after saddam was capped than it was during his golden years, and yes, while some of the political parties do fight each other, the majority of each group has come to realize it needs to be done on their parliament floor (or whatever they call it) rather than at the end of a gun, keep in mind that many of the majority of those committing the terror acts are coming from/supported by/under the direction of foreign parties and powers, or are the remnants of Saddams command, before you fall too deeply into thinking that 100% of the nation is a deathtrap, check out some sites like, I think it's called "theotheriraq.com", sure things are bad there, but no nation was ever born peacefully, and though Iraq existed under saddam, it is basically a new nation without dictator rule
Poll
Given the situation in Iraq, what should be done?
| Complete Withdrawal of ALL US forces immediately? | 32% | 32% - 22 | ||||
| Add a few thousand more forces to do intended job? | 27% | 27% - 19 | ||||
| Reroute the majority of forces to Afghanistan/Pakistan? | 16% | 16% - 11 | ||||
| Stay the course... | 23% | 23% - 16 | ||||
| Total: 68 | ||||||
For suck sake Attack Iran & Syria - in for a penny in for a pound!!
Someone mentioned somalia (pug?) as an example of what Iraq will become..I would just say that they are two completely different scenarios. Somalia (mogadishu specifically) had US soldiers to help with distribution of food (see clinton vs. wallace interview), 22 pakistanis were killed, then the US came in, settled it down, then got mixed up in the affair militarily by trying to "help" by capturing Aidid's leutenants...we know the rest...US pulled out as the UN returned fully. The government of Somalia is governed by a non-religious militia..and that government just changed hands a few weeks ago... Iraq is not so easily controllable. If we pulled out, whenever, the sunnis, shi'ites, and any foreign influences will fight over it. Maybe that's not such a bad idea if it didn't involve more innocents being slaughtered. But like others have said, WHAT CAN US FORCES DO? Even if we put in 500k soldiers...it might quell some violence..but we'll eventually leave..or big fancy embassy will be destroyed/taken over, and the multi-force fighting will continue as we leave..Iran will probably take ownership via Sadr or someone friendly to the ayatollahs.
Someone also asked why divert to Pakistan? Pakistan and Afghanistan border is the hot spot where we should have been focusing our fight...that's where the 911 attackers/planners are. Killing them won't do jack because of what Iraq has caused, but it will at least give some shallow closure to many americans who think with Osama dead, it will calm down the terrorism here.
Regardless of what we do in Iraq, we are going to be hit again and we are less safe. But it's nice to see this poll develop into excellent opinions and debate. Thanks for helping me see different opinions.
Someone also asked why divert to Pakistan? Pakistan and Afghanistan border is the hot spot where we should have been focusing our fight...that's where the 911 attackers/planners are. Killing them won't do jack because of what Iraq has caused, but it will at least give some shallow closure to many americans who think with Osama dead, it will calm down the terrorism here.
Regardless of what we do in Iraq, we are going to be hit again and we are less safe. But it's nice to see this poll develop into excellent opinions and debate. Thanks for helping me see different opinions.
I'm not a good source of info for Somalia, but there are some tentative similarities to Iraq I'd like to point out.
From wiki:
Somalia has had no effective national government since 1991.
UN troops arrive 1993 (Black Hawk Down incident)
UN troops leave in 1995 (too many casualties)
Five separate governments/regions have succeed from Somalia since 1995.
The last regime, which finished carving out its territory on Sept 25, 2006 is an Islamist regime. The other five regimes seemed to have united against the Islamists. So perhaps there's only two governments now. But, some militant organizations have sprung up to oppose the five-way group.
So basically the place has been a war zone since 1991. And, the region is still active...and out of control. What I'm saying is - what if the UN got more involved? Would the civil war have lasted so long?
I think that's the parallel to Iraq, only in what happens to a country where civil war is allowed unabated. Unrelated comment - I find it interesting that for some reason the world has been ignoring what's been happening in Somalia since the UN left...
From wiki:
Somalia has had no effective national government since 1991.
UN troops arrive 1993 (Black Hawk Down incident)
UN troops leave in 1995 (too many casualties)
Five separate governments/regions have succeed from Somalia since 1995.
The last regime, which finished carving out its territory on Sept 25, 2006 is an Islamist regime. The other five regimes seemed to have united against the Islamists. So perhaps there's only two governments now. But, some militant organizations have sprung up to oppose the five-way group.
So basically the place has been a war zone since 1991. And, the region is still active...and out of control. What I'm saying is - what if the UN got more involved? Would the civil war have lasted so long?
I think that's the parallel to Iraq, only in what happens to a country where civil war is allowed unabated. Unrelated comment - I find it interesting that for some reason the world has been ignoring what's been happening in Somalia since the UN left...
I think they should grant the Kurds Independence in the north as its what they've always wanted. I believe its what Bush senior promised them when he called on them to rise up against Saddam and then got thousands of them killed during the first "Gulf War"!
The "Coalition of the willing" (always brings a smile to my face!) could then divert troops to other parts of a smaller Iraq. Obviously most of the violence currently centers around Baghdad but it could relieve some troops and couldnt make the situation any worse, or could it? If your spreading freedom and democracy its makes sense!
The "Coalition of the willing" (always brings a smile to my face!) could then divert troops to other parts of a smaller Iraq. Obviously most of the violence currently centers around Baghdad but it could relieve some troops and couldnt make the situation any worse, or could it? If your spreading freedom and democracy its makes sense!
Last edited by Jepeto87 (2006-09-27 10:48:25)
Kracker you need to check your information sites. Iraq still has several areas without power. This creates a perfect opportunity for the jihad because the people cannot keep fresh food and have to go to market everyday. Thus plant the bomb the night before and when market opens boom. Iraq still is below the levels of "decency" as far as public utilities than prior to invasion. Not winning the hearts and minds that way.kr@cker wrote:
leaving will only serve to further destabilize the region, the Iraqi government has made great strides politically, keep in mind that we were still fighting for our existence almost forty years after splitting from england, and it took us, what, 12 years or so to write the constitution, they pulled it off in 3 AND have had 3 major elections in spite of the threats to blow up the polling houses, the utility infrastructure was better 6 months after saddam was capped than it was during his golden years, and yes, while some of the political parties do fight each other, the majority of each group has come to realize it needs to be done on their parliament floor (or whatever they call it) rather than at the end of a gun, keep in mind that many of the majority of those committing the terror acts are coming from/supported by/under the direction of foreign parties and powers, or are the remnants of Saddams command, before you fall too deeply into thinking that 100% of the nation is a deathtrap, check out some sites like, I think it's called "theotheriraq.com", sure things are bad there, but no nation was ever born peacefully, and though Iraq existed under saddam, it is basically a new nation without dictator rule
According to the World Health Organisation (WHO),
"Iraq had a modern sanitary infrastructure with an extensive network of water-purification and sewage-treatment systems. Water networks distributed clean, safe water to 95% of the urban population and to 75% of those in rural areas. In 1990, Iraq was ranked 50th out of 130 countries on the UNDP Human Development Index, which measures national achievements in health, education, and per capita GDP".
It has fallen to 127, one of the most dramatic declines in human welfare in recent history, as a result of the U.S-Britain-sponsored sanctions and wars, which needlessly killed civilians en mass.
Daily living conditions in Iraq dismal, UN survey finds
12 May 2005 – Daily living conditions in Iraq are dismal, with families suffering from intermittent water and electricity supply, chronic malnutrition among children and more illiterate young than ever before, a new report by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) and the Iraqi Government shows.
Last edited by GATOR591957 (2006-09-27 10:58:50)
Ive had 2 of my best friends killed in Iraq, i know many other people who went to my high school who are there right now. I get sick to my stomach going to a funeral, and having your best friends get put to rest. I just want everyone to come home safe so other families in america and other countries who are at iraq dont have to go through the same pain as me.
Im sure they have a differnt idea of how they want to live their life. Interesting opinion though.usmarine2005 wrote:
Unfortunately, I say leave. If they want to continue killing each other and acting like a bunch of animals, instead of trying to help themselves and advance their civilization, then I say the hell with them.