like cam said, id rather have an argument with this pink butch on an internet forum than see her degrading the memories of the thousands upon thousands of iraqis and americans by dancing around in a pink fairy suit. Shes hurting her message more than helping it, which reenforces my opinion that protests arent sincere and that they just want to DO SOMETHING for sake of just DOING SOMETHING. shit, we may be arguing on this video game forum but there a plenty people reading these posts whose opinions are much better influenced than seeing some dumb bitch making herself look like a fool out on the street.R3v0LuT!oN wrote:
All I can say is at least this wacky lady in her pink outfit is out DOING SOMETHING. She could much more easily stay home and argue on internet forums, but what does that accomplish?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
no no no. the constitution is my bible. what I have an issue with is this:R3v0LuT!oN wrote:
What exactly is it about that woman's exercising of her First Amendment rights that makes you want to vomit? If you don't believe in these freedoms for every American, then you don't believe in them at all, my friend.
shes sabotaging the seriousness of her dissent as well as pooping on the memories of soldiers that have already died (in my opinion). holy fuck, shes protesting her anger towards the government or particpating a costume party. how the fuck can i take vermin like this seriously for their beliefs when all i see at a protest is a bunch of people having GREAT time. correct me if Im wrong but shouldnt dissent be something one takes serious if one is sincere. how the fuck could some hold a sign that says 3000 dead troops or whatever and smiling and joking at the same time. to me it seems like these bastards are using the lives of Iraqis and GI's to keep the good times rolling
im just asking why people protest. 1st amendment all the way
i never read something more ignorant like gunslingers posts...
"left ear - right ear .."
thats your sources of information?! ridiculous, mate !!
you're talking 'bout "fat college kids" who don't know anything - who are you then? mofo-wise guy?
do you have any deeper insight in political processes than academics?
regardin' your chauvinist posts --> definitely not!
start thinkin' before you answer, boy!
"left ear - right ear .."
thats your sources of information?! ridiculous, mate !!
you're talking 'bout "fat college kids" who don't know anything - who are you then? mofo-wise guy?
do you have any deeper insight in political processes than academics?
regardin' your chauvinist posts --> definitely not!
start thinkin' before you answer, boy!
Me too. I find it hard enough to believe Iraq has a population that large, let alone that they all died.King_County_Downy wrote:
700 Million Iraqis died? I find that hard to believe.sergeriver wrote:
Iraq War Costs:
-340 billion dollars
-700M Iraqi People Died
-2800 Americans Died
I don't know really.
Left ear, right ear works just fine for me when he's been to war. I think he does have deeper insight on war than any college or university prof. in his Burkinstocks. Chauvinist?musichost wrote:
i never read something more ignorant like gunslingers posts...
"left ear - right ear .."
thats your sources of information?! ridiculous, mate !!
you're talking 'bout "fat college kids" who don't know anything - who are you then? mofo-wise guy?
do you have any deeper insight in political processes than academics?
regardin' your chauvinist posts --> definitely not!
start thinkin' before you answer, boy!
know to handle a M16 does not mean that he knows how to deal with political processes
kudos to a good rebuttal. i actually agree with one or two points you brought up. im fucking shocked.RicardoBlanco wrote:
True, my quality of life hasn't changed a bit since you guys decided to invade Iraq but then it was the same before too. Whether you're there or not makes no difference to my life, which begs the question; why are you over there at all?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Why protest the war in Iraq. Human beings are selfish animals by nature and NOBODY has lost a cunt hairs worth of their quality of life since 2003. why do i see a bunch of kids waving their signs in front of recruiting stations and doing protest walks blocking traffic. I have more respect for the insurgent that detonates an IED than for all these new wannabe hippies.
On another note, it appears your politicians agree. At what point do you guys start to question the reason you were sent there? Your presence is compounding the insurgency problem and one could argue your actions WILL start affecting our everyday lives the longer you remain in their country.
Most people are protesting precisely because their lives are unaffected either way. The only ones suffering are the Iraqi people, and your average human being will find issue with this. Call them hippies if you like, no doubt they'll call you a murderer, but remember this: You get to go home after your tour, the Iraqi people don't, and they have to live day to day with murders, bombings, no infrastructure and no security. You only get one pop at life and the majority do their best to make the most of it; why fuck it up for others?
at what point? well, for the longest time before the invasion, everybody could have sworn we going to Nkorea. I was suspecting we would invade, shit they told us months before, and the majority of soldiers that were in my company all had the same sentiment. Iraq, are you fucking srious, were invading Iraq? where did that one come from, oh well...
me and my best friend had an ongoing bet as to see how soon WMD's will be found. we both won that bet if you get my drift. but seriously, to quote that one novel whose name escapes me "ours is not to question why, ours is but to do and die" (charge of the light brigrade? sorry if i butchered it) a soldiers duty isnt to question policy, but rather to implement it. I was against the invasion of Iraq. for various reasons but Im for the increase of combat arms troops on the ground. war is there, it exists and in my job your duty isnt to stop it but to make it end as quick as possible.
"You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will.
War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out."
"I know I had no hand in making this war,
and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace."
- General William Tecumseh Sherman
your right, you know much more than I do. you win. good day sirmusichost wrote:
i never read something more ignorant like gunslingers posts...
"left ear - right ear .."
thats your sources of information?! ridiculous, mate !!
you're talking 'bout "fat college kids" who don't know anything - who are you then? mofo-wise guy?
do you have any deeper insight in political processes than academics?
regardin' your chauvinist posts --> definitely not!
start thinkin' before you answer, boy!
Can you explain to me why quality of life has any bearing on this discussion? I just don't see the connection. You can only protest or express what you believe in if you're the one being oppressed or harmed? That's interesting.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
yes, but then, how has their quality of life been damaged due to the war. most protesters I know are bleeding hearts who like to cite stupid shit like the Lancet report or that "ranger" in iraq with the white tshirt under his BDU's saying all that bullshit he said about the war earlier this year.R3v0LuT!oN wrote:
Is that an observation based on facts, or just personal experience? Because all of the people I know who protest are very well educated, informed people, who also have respectable day jobs. Would it be fair for me to say that ALL protesters are equally educated and informed, just because the ones I've encountered are? Of course not. The same applies to your sweeping generalization.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
thats my exact point. where you see them being the minority of dissent, i see them being the majority of the protesting public. people that are bored and want to make their voice heard for sake of just having their voice heard, not for sending an important message. it takes a lot from to stay quit and just agree to avoid a confrontation coming from my side when some dipshit tries to give me the straight dope on Iraq.
Our quality of life wasn't being impacted by the evil things Saddam Hussein was doing to the Iraqi people while he was still in power, yet wasn't one of the justifications our Republican leadership used for this war that the US had a responsibility to bring a better life to the people of Iraq and the greater Middle-East?
He fixed his post, Pretty funny typo considering the population of Iraq is only like 27 million.ghettoperson wrote:
Me too. I find it hard enough to believe Iraq has a population that large, let alone that they all died.King_County_Downy wrote:
700 Million Iraqis died? I find that hard to believe.sergeriver wrote:
Iraq War Costs:
-340 billion dollars
-700M Iraqi People Died
-2800 Americans Died
I don't know really.
poor - even what i expected...
keep on bashing, chick!
keep on bashing, chick!
dude, you think im a pro war republican man. im notR3v0LuT!oN wrote:
Can you explain to me why quality of life has any bearing on this discussion? I just don't see the connection. You can only protest or express what you believe in if you're the one being oppressed or harmed? That's interesting.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
yes, but then, how has their quality of life been damaged due to the war. most protesters I know are bleeding hearts who like to cite stupid shit like the Lancet report or that "ranger" in iraq with the white tshirt under his BDU's saying all that bullshit he said about the war earlier this year.R3v0LuT!oN wrote:
Is that an observation based on facts, or just personal experience? Because all of the people I know who protest are very well educated, informed people, who also have respectable day jobs. Would it be fair for me to say that ALL protesters are equally educated and informed, just because the ones I've encountered are? Of course not. The same applies to your sweeping generalization.
Our quality of life wasn't being impacted by the evil things Saddam Hussein was doing to the Iraqi people while he was still in power, yet wasn't one of the justifications our Republican leadership used for this war that the US had a responsibility to bring a better life to the people of Iraq and the greater Middle-East?
Im against the war. I did two tours in Iraq with the Marines.
1. 70's era body armor and no vehicle armor for the invasion
2. Limited or no vehicle armor for second tour.
3. No defined mission.
4. Not enough troops to clear and hold cities.
5. Military contractors getting paid hundreds of millions and accomplishing nothing.
The list goes on..
I hate all these republicans who claim democrats don't support the troops. I have seen the kind of support bush and rumsfield gave us. Their needs to be a serious investigation into the bush administration.
1. 70's era body armor and no vehicle armor for the invasion
2. Limited or no vehicle armor for second tour.
3. No defined mission.
4. Not enough troops to clear and hold cities.
5. Military contractors getting paid hundreds of millions and accomplishing nothing.
The list goes on..
I hate all these republicans who claim democrats don't support the troops. I have seen the kind of support bush and rumsfield gave us. Their needs to be a serious investigation into the bush administration.
yeah,, but you should know since youve done two tours that the Armor problems were fixed during OIF II. but fuck yeah 3, 4 , and 5 piss me the fuck off toojmfd wrote:
Im against the war. I did two tours in Iraq with the Marines.
1. 70's era body armor and no vehicle armor for the invasion
2. Limited or no vehicle armor for second tour.
3. No defined mission.
4. Not enough troops to clear and hold cities.
5. Military contractors getting paid hundreds of millions and accomplishing nothing.
The list goes on..
I hate all these republicans who claim democrats don't support the troops. I have seen the kind of support bush and rumsfield gave us. Their needs to be a serious investigation into the bush administration.
I didn't make any assumptions actually, I'm just asking you to clarify your argument.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
dude, you think im a pro war republican man. im not
I say, either get serious about Iraq and put in a couple hudred thousand more troops or get out. Iraqis don't want us there. I wouldnt say they fixed the armor issues. My old unit is on its fourth tour in Iraq and my friends say its still fucked up over there.
The cost hasn't affected us yet, but it WILL affect us in the long run. The cost of this waste of effort is going to be repaid by us through higher taxes or a loss of national social programs.
The war is affecting international sentiment towards Americans in general, which has a possibility to hinder my ability to enjoy myself if I decide to leave the country for a vacation.
To those who care, knowing that your country is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians for pointless reasons is enough to affect you on a daily basis. I'm part of Amnesty International, and the actions of the US government will NOT be lost to apathy just because "the only ones really affected are foreigners, and who gives a shit about them, right?"
There was no point to the war in Iraq. There were no visible long-term goals. There were massive amounts of misinformation that a LOT of us knew about pre-2003, yet per usual, no one listened. Everyone took hold of the post-9/11 sentiment, the right-wingers forced Nationalism down everyone's throat to help sponsor support for this conceptual war. The Country Changed, and the protests are held in order to make people aware of it.
There are many facets to anti-war protests, but the fact still remains that people are upset about our actions no matter if it doesn't affect their Personal daily lives. Only fretting about yourself when your country is killing the citizens of another country for no reason leads to direct apathy, which is exactly what this country DOESN'T need.
The war is affecting international sentiment towards Americans in general, which has a possibility to hinder my ability to enjoy myself if I decide to leave the country for a vacation.
To those who care, knowing that your country is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians for pointless reasons is enough to affect you on a daily basis. I'm part of Amnesty International, and the actions of the US government will NOT be lost to apathy just because "the only ones really affected are foreigners, and who gives a shit about them, right?"
There was no point to the war in Iraq. There were no visible long-term goals. There were massive amounts of misinformation that a LOT of us knew about pre-2003, yet per usual, no one listened. Everyone took hold of the post-9/11 sentiment, the right-wingers forced Nationalism down everyone's throat to help sponsor support for this conceptual war. The Country Changed, and the protests are held in order to make people aware of it.
There are many facets to anti-war protests, but the fact still remains that people are upset about our actions no matter if it doesn't affect their Personal daily lives. Only fretting about yourself when your country is killing the citizens of another country for no reason leads to direct apathy, which is exactly what this country DOESN'T need.
these are all things that I also identify with. but my concern with protesters is from what I see around me. I guess my definition of seriousness is not the same as all the yahoos wearing pink. going out and voting is the only real way to make change, not having a good time on the memories of the dead.Marconius wrote:
The cost hasn't affected us yet, but it WILL affect us in the long run. The cost of this waste of effort is going to be repaid by us through higher taxes or a loss of national social programs.
The war is affecting international sentiment towards Americans in general, which has a possibility to hinder my ability to enjoy myself if I decide to leave the country for a vacation.
To those who care, knowing that your country is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians for pointless reasons is enough to affect you on a daily basis. I'm part of Amnesty International, and the actions of the US government will NOT be lost to apathy just because "the only ones really affected are foreigners, and who gives a shit about them, right?"
There was no point to the war in Iraq. There were no visible long-term goals. There were massive amounts of misinformation that a LOT of us knew about pre-2003, yet per usual, no one listened. Everyone took hold of the post-9/11 sentiment, the right-wingers forced Nationalism down everyone's throat to help sponsor support for this conceptual war. The Country Changed, and the protests are held in order to make people aware of it.
There are many facets to anti-war protests, but the fact still remains that people are upset about our actions no matter if it doesn't affect their Personal daily lives. Only fretting about yourself when your country is killing the citizens of another country for no reason leads to direct apathy, which is exactly what this country DOESN'T need.
im a soldier, i want to see success in iraq whether we belong there or not.R3v0LuT!oN wrote:
I didn't make any assumptions actually, I'm just asking you to clarify your argument.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
dude, you think im a pro war republican man. im not
I am anti war
I am pro troop numbers being raised.
I dont believe we ever belonged there.
we are there now
I love my country
I love the Army
I hate band wagoners
GS,
I've seen lots of protesting (having worked in the San Francisco financial district..and living near Berkeley in general) and even those having fun are serious. For example, that picture you showed of the lady in pink protesting and wanting the troops to come home. DO YOU KNOW HER? Do you know if she's really so light hearted about the cause that she is desecrating the lives of thsoe lost?
I see that picture and i assume she's a mother of a dead soldier who's been on many protests, has made her life around it (like Cindy Sheehan), and she is able to live life while getting down to the action of protesting.
Also, what do you assume protesting is? Is it an act? Is it an expression? Should it follow certain principles of conduct and protocol? I've never marched, but I did follow some anti-israeli protestors down Market St. in San Francisco and while I saw some of the marchers talking with each other, I still had no reason to believe they genuinely cared about their palestinian counterparts who were having their settlements bulldozed by Israelis. What reason do you have to think that lady in pink isn't serious about her free expression? And do you also think she's a flagrantly goofy lady all the time just because of that one picture? Just curious as to the source of your angst towards her.
I've seen lots of protesting (having worked in the San Francisco financial district..and living near Berkeley in general) and even those having fun are serious. For example, that picture you showed of the lady in pink protesting and wanting the troops to come home. DO YOU KNOW HER? Do you know if she's really so light hearted about the cause that she is desecrating the lives of thsoe lost?
I see that picture and i assume she's a mother of a dead soldier who's been on many protests, has made her life around it (like Cindy Sheehan), and she is able to live life while getting down to the action of protesting.
Also, what do you assume protesting is? Is it an act? Is it an expression? Should it follow certain principles of conduct and protocol? I've never marched, but I did follow some anti-israeli protestors down Market St. in San Francisco and while I saw some of the marchers talking with each other, I still had no reason to believe they genuinely cared about their palestinian counterparts who were having their settlements bulldozed by Israelis. What reason do you have to think that lady in pink isn't serious about her free expression? And do you also think she's a flagrantly goofy lady all the time just because of that one picture? Just curious as to the source of your angst towards her.
if we pulled out, i dont want to imagine to amount of blood being spilled even more so by Iraqi civilians. but yeah, they need to let the troops do the job and win a war. not drive around and react to our enemies actions.jmfd wrote:
I say, either get serious about Iraq and put in a couple hudred thousand more troops or get out. Iraqis don't want us there. I wouldnt say they fixed the armor issues. My old unit is on its fourth tour in Iraq and my friends say its still fucked up over there.
Why argue on the Internet thats dumb.....street protest will get things done....she wore pink as it attracted attention ( although I see your point) would it better for her to wear military fatigues. If you have something to protest about, protest. Sitting at home moaning will do nothing. Stand and fight or die in your bed. Is this forum going to change anyones opinion maybe, but if i saw a few thousand marchers walking down my street I would wanna know why...
As I said before wars are for money religion or land, fought by the people for scum bag rich people. Bush is gay for not accepting Saddam's offer of a fair fight between them. Faggot.
As I said before wars are for money religion or land, fought by the people for scum bag rich people. Bush is gay for not accepting Saddam's offer of a fair fight between them. Faggot.
True, there are some annoying protestors...at least you aren't rallying to silence them!
I was actually arrested in the March 2003 protests here in San Francisco. I'd do it again just to be part of one combined and growing voice of concern in this country.
I vote and I write to my representatives. Had I the time, I'd work for political or activist campaign offices.
I was actually arrested in the March 2003 protests here in San Francisco. I'd do it again just to be part of one combined and growing voice of concern in this country.
I vote and I write to my representatives. Had I the time, I'd work for political or activist campaign offices.
there was no terrorist in IRAQ before the american invasion.. AMERICA created the terrorism in IRAQMasterstyle wrote:
United States, you want to sit around worried waiting for the next terror attack? or make sure it doesnt happen again by getting rid of terrorism so it never happens again?
Saddam was the best friend you ever had in the middle east.. and you dumb americans (the ones who agree with this war) removed him. he was not a crazy islamist.
now you are planning to remove Ahmadinejad (or whatever) from IRAN and you will make the same mistake..
IRAQ never attacked the USA, there was no WMD
IRAN never attacked the USA, there is No WMD (yet)
all this is for the safety of ISRAEL
in the same time, North Korea is testing nukes all over the places.. threatening your own soldiers on the border but noooo you have to negociate
the people who support that war are either pro ISRAEL or completely brainwashed
the bad thing is by removing saddam, you created thousands more terrorists in IRAQ, IRAN is getting stronger and stronger now that IRAQ is reduced to rubbles
you lost that war the moment you invaded IRAQ..
you get out now and IRAQ will be a mess controlled by different islamist faction.. full of terrorists
you stay there and you keep losing soldiers
all this for the safety of ISRAEL
my advice?
get out of IRAQ now, stop the support of ISRAEL.. deport all zionists rumsfled, perle, wolfowitz, liebermann, larry silverstein and all pro israel arsehole in you senate...AIPAC to ISRAEL ..take back your country... close your borders and stay low profile for 2 or 3 hundreds years
here's a thought...who cares?
I'm not political, I dont vote, i think Dems & Reps are retarded. At this point being in Iraq is a waste, same thing with Afghanistan, we're not going to find Bin Laden anyway. If it wouldn't cost so much money, I'd say bring everybody and everything home and let people deal with their own problems. America shouldn't have to babysit all these other countries. Let them kill each other, whatever...Unless there's an invasion by a hostile country/dicator (Desert Storm, WW2) we should stay out of it, not start invasions of our own.
If we're gonna start invading, we might as well go all out and take over the world...er i mean, make a unified global economy, where we dont need passports, various form of currency, or anything that isn't the metric system.
I'm not political, I dont vote, i think Dems & Reps are retarded. At this point being in Iraq is a waste, same thing with Afghanistan, we're not going to find Bin Laden anyway. If it wouldn't cost so much money, I'd say bring everybody and everything home and let people deal with their own problems. America shouldn't have to babysit all these other countries. Let them kill each other, whatever...Unless there's an invasion by a hostile country/dicator (Desert Storm, WW2) we should stay out of it, not start invasions of our own.
If we're gonna start invading, we might as well go all out and take over the world...er i mean, make a unified global economy, where we dont need passports, various form of currency, or anything that isn't the metric system.
lol, thanks dude for making muni busses late!! i hope you got a big fine you hippy protestor!Marconius wrote:
True, there are some annoying protestors...at least you aren't rallying to silence them!
I was actually arrested in the March 2003 protests here in San Francisco. I'd do it again just to be part of one combined and growing voice of concern in this country.
I vote and I write to my representatives. Had I the time, I'd work for political or activist campaign offices.
jk