GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7091

IRONCHEF wrote:

GS,

I've seen lots of protesting (having worked in the San Francisco financial district..and living near Berkeley in general) and even those having fun are serious.  For example, that picture you showed of the lady in pink protesting and wanting the troops to come home.  DO YOU KNOW HER?  Do you know if she's really so light hearted about the cause that she is desecrating the lives of thsoe lost?

I see that picture and i assume she's a mother of a dead soldier who's been on many protests, has made her life around it (like Cindy Sheehan), and she is able to live life while getting down to the action of protesting.

Also, what do you assume protesting is?  Is it an act?  Is it an expression?  Should it follow certain principles of conduct and protocol?  I've never marched, but I did follow some anti-israeli protestors down Market St. in San Francisco and while I saw some of the marchers talking with each other, I still had no reason to believe they genuinely cared about their palestinian counterparts who were having their settlements bulldozed by Israelis.  What reason do you have to think that lady in pink isn't serious about her free expression?  And do you also think she's a flagrantly goofy lady all the time just because of that one picture?  Just curious as to the source of your angst towards her.
i think the picture speaks for itself man.  I think CODEPINK and anything like it is trivializing their argument by bringing unneccessary humor. you know what else looks pink, the inside of a 10 year old childs brains.  these protest should be serious and solemn if they are sincere, I think.  Everytime I see a sign waving the number of dead troops, all I see are the names of my fallen brothers and these assholes using that to convey their argument in a fun manner. I see two names on that list that directly affect me and these fuckers are making a party over it
GetSplit
Member
+3|6853|Bloomington, IL

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

my advice?

get out of IRAQ now, stop the support of ISRAEL..  deport all zionists  rumsfled, perle, wolfowitz, liebermann, larry silverstein and all pro israel arsehole in you senate...AIPAC to ISRAEL ..take back your country... close your borders and stay low profile for 2 or 3 hundreds years
THANK YOU! QFT!
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7003
What makes protests even more pointless in Ireland is that they are always ALWAYS hijacked by the Socialist Workers Party (essentially the Communist Party).
R3v0LuT!oN
Member
+22|7114|United States

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

R3v0LuT!oN wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

dude, you think im a pro war republican man.  im not
I didn't make any assumptions actually, I'm just asking you to clarify your argument.
im a soldier, i want to see success in iraq whether we belong there or not. 

I am anti war

I am pro troop numbers being raised.

I dont believe we ever belonged there.

we are there now

I love my country

I love the Army

I hate band wagoners
Thanks for clarifying.  I just would point out that there are mindless bandwagoners on both sides, not just the protest side.  I've seen some pretty ridiculous pro-war and/or pro-life demonstrations here in Salt Lake City, UT (the reddest state in the country, btw).

While some of us on the protest side take dissent very seriously, and we take the time to inform ourselves and present an effective message, there will always be those who dress up in pink fairy costumes and make a mockery of it.  But who cares?  That's what makes America so great, and so worth defending, isn't it?  We've got all kinds of wacky people here, and we're all free to say and do almost anything we please.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7091

R3v0LuT!oN wrote:

...  That's what makes America so great, and so worth defending, isn't it?  We've got all kinds of wacky people here, and we're all free to say and do almost anything we please.
that right there is why I love my country and just hate people in general : )
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|7141|San Francisco
Ironchef.  Nope, we were arrested illegally.  No dispersal order, just indiscriminate arrests.  Our cases were dismissed with no fines/records.

And for GetSplit:
https://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1077/armchairintrorh4.jpg
GetSplit
Member
+3|6853|Bloomington, IL
A real protest: read the signs!!!!!!!!!!

https://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/natrix19/IMAGE32.jpg

that aint me, i would never drink diet pepsi

Last edited by GetSplit (2006-11-02 11:49:16)

IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6938|Northern California

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

i think the picture speaks for itself man.  I think CODEPINK and anything like it is trivializing their argument by bringing unneccessary humor. you know what else looks pink, the inside of a 10 year old childs brains.  these protest should be serious and solemn if they are sincere, I think.  Everytime I see a sign waving the number of dead troops, all I see are the names of my fallen brothers and these assholes using that to convey their argument in a fun manner. I see two names on that list that directly affect me and these fuckers are making a party over it
Sorry, the picture shows a lady in pink, smiling and holding a sign, and passing out/selling buttons and probably stickers.  I don't see the picture showing her level of sincerity or reverence (or lack thereof) towards the fallen.  But I'm assuming you've been to a rally of code pink.  If I was more aware of their purpose and goals, i could speak more intelligently.  But as it is, since that picture looks to me as I described, I don't see her crime.  I do see her as being part of a mobilized group that gathers at political and population points around the country in mass so as to be a large voice of opposition.  To me, doing that is enough to get their point across regardless of how they dress...though being reverent about it as you've mentioned would make their message better backed.  But with protests, I'm guessing it's the number in the streets that matter.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7091

Marconius wrote:

True, there are some annoying protestors...at least you aren't rallying to silence them!

I was actually arrested in the March 2003 protests here in San Francisco.  I'd do it again just to be part of one combined and growing voice of concern in this country.

I vote and I write to my representatives.  Had I the time, I'd work for political or activist campaign offices.
I think any move to silence dissent is just as bad as the insincerity of the dissenters.  Freedom of Speech is a right that I will never attempt to critisicize, even when we have people like the phelp's and what not.

When I got out the army and back home in cali i was shocked to actually find out that we were LOSING in Iraq, that was news to me.  its been about a year and I just got fed up with it so I got in reserves.  I almost feel like things are going bad simply because Im not there. Not really, but I still have faith that we could still make this pile of shit end up smelling like roses.  Since I want a degree and a higher education, Im stuck at home.  But Ill be back, doing my god damned best to make Iraq a strong nation where democracy reins.  now, that means the Iraqi civilians declaring victory over the United States, oh well.  At least now, theyll be able to experience a free and open society.  Iraq was once the most secular arab nation in the middle east, and if were to pull out that will be too soon of a memory.  If I didnt have such an utter disdain for any kind of political process, I would volunteer  myself
GetSplit
Member
+3|6853|Bloomington, IL
Isn't the sign the lady is holding in pink a bit contradictory  "Support our troops, bring them home".  Thats like if your daughter is trying to be a hollywood actor, and ur like "I back you 100%, why dont you come home for awhile".  Unless the lady in pink is giving us instructions: Step 1) Support our troops, Step 2) add 2 cups of milk, Step 3) bring to a simmer, Step 4) Bring troops home.

that and the lady looks stupid
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7091

IRONCHEF wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

i think the picture speaks for itself man.  I think CODEPINK and anything like it is trivializing their argument by bringing unneccessary humor. you know what else looks pink, the inside of a 10 year old childs brains.  these protest should be serious and solemn if they are sincere, I think.  Everytime I see a sign waving the number of dead troops, all I see are the names of my fallen brothers and these assholes using that to convey their argument in a fun manner. I see two names on that list that directly affect me and these fuckers are making a party over it
Sorry, the picture shows a lady in pink, smiling and holding a sign, and passing out/selling buttons and probably stickers.  I don't see the picture showing her level of sincerity or reverence (or lack thereof) towards the fallen.  But I'm assuming you've been to a rally of code pink.  If I was more aware of their purpose and goals, i could speak more intelligently.  But as it is, since that picture looks to me as I described, I don't see her crime.  I do see her as being part of a mobilized group that gathers at political and population points around the country in mass so as to be a large voice of opposition.  To me, doing that is enough to get their point across regardless of how they dress...though being reverent about it as you've mentioned would make their message better backed.  But with protests, I'm guessing it's the number in the streets that matter.
thats exactly where we see things differently
CC-Marley
Member
+407|7276

King_County_Downy wrote:

Throughout history, when a republican is in office, the economy goes to shit and it's wartime. When a democrat's in office, the economy skyrockets and it's peacetime.
Is the economy bad?
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6938|Northern California

GetSplit wrote:

Isn't the sign the lady is holding in pink a bit contradictory  "Support our troops, bring them home".  Thats like if your daughter is trying to be a hollywood actor, and ur like "I back you 100%, why dont you come home for awhile".  Unless the lady in pink is giving us instructions: Step 1) Support our troops, Step 2) add 2 cups of milk, Step 3) bring to a simmer, Step 4) Bring troops home.

that and the lady looks stupid
The lady in pink's sign is not contradictory.  But the right wing can't understand that point of view.  They think we all hate soldiers and call them all baby-killers or something.  In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find ANY liberals (even those on the outter fringes) blaming ANYTHING on the soldiers or criticizing them (well, maybe the lieing recruiters).  So when liberals, or anti-war protestors say to support the tropps by bringing them home, it simply means that they want these kids home safely..and that is the support.  THis is in opposition to the warhawks that think by throwing our troops in civil warfare and terrorist training grounds is ok as long as they put a magnet on their car and hang a flag from the window and put out "good vibes" to the soldiers.  Seriously, i want to friggen drop C4 in the trunks of EVERY friggen loser who has one of those "support our troops" magnets on their vehicles who thinks that's how you support troops.  But since it's their misguided "freedom of speech" they will go unscathed. 

A perfect example of an anti-war voice who supports our troops is Michael Moore.  He could have very easily just been a complaining voice, but instead, he's done ALOT for patriotism, for soldiers, and for education around this country.  I like Mike.
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|7072|Home of the Escalade Herds

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Iraq War Costs:
-340 billion dollars
-700M Iraqi People Died
-2800 Americans Died
I don't know really.
and how has effected your day to day life. honestly, how?

and serge, your proving my point.  that 700 thousand is utter bullshit
You're saying that 340 billion couldn't be used in better ways?

How about our piece of shit medical system? Something to the tune of 50 million Americans have no medical insurance so if anything happens to them, they are pretty much fucked for life with debt.

We have bigger problems here at home.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6976|Global Command

IRONCHEF wrote:

I used to hate all protestors too.  Then I've noticed that some of them have good cause...but I had to pull my head out of my ass to see that.  maybe you need to do that too GS.

And no, there's no direct difference to me or my life because of the iraq war.  But you know what, I and millions of other protestors around the world aren't selfish and can actually have compassion towards others.  And on that note, the country I love and the country I belong to is killing, destroying, and causing greater danger to me, my country, and my countrymen because of this war on iraq.

But again,  you won't see that if you don't take your head from your ass.  But I encourage you to try it.
What a shitty thing to say.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7091

PRiMACORD wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Iraq War Costs:
-340 billion dollars
-700M Iraqi People Died
-2800 Americans Died
I don't know really.
and how has effected your day to day life. honestly, how?

and serge, your proving my point.  that 700 thousand is utter bullshit
You're saying that 340 billion couldn't be used in better ways?

How about our piece of shit medical system? Something to the tune of 50 million Americans have no medical insurance so if anything happens to them, they are pretty much fucked for life with debt.

We have bigger problems here at home.
true


do you have medical insurance?

and before anybody says, yes I know insurance rates go up more because of people with a lack of insurance.  or at least that what im led to believe
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6938|Northern California

ATG wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

I used to hate all protestors too.  Then I've noticed that some of them have good cause...but I had to pull my head out of my ass to see that.  maybe you need to do that too GS.

And no, there's no direct difference to me or my life because of the iraq war.  But you know what, I and millions of other protestors around the world aren't selfish and can actually have compassion towards others.  And on that note, the country I love and the country I belong to is killing, destroying, and causing greater danger to me, my country, and my countrymen because of this war on iraq.

But again,  you won't see that if you don't take your head from your ass.  But I encourage you to try it.
What a shitty thing to say.
yeah, thanks for contributing to the thread and the insult.
CC-Marley
Member
+407|7276

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

PRiMACORD wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:


and how has effected your day to day life. honestly, how?

and serge, your proving my point.  that 700 thousand is utter bullshit
You're saying that 340 billion couldn't be used in better ways?

How about our piece of shit medical system? Something to the tune of 50 million Americans have no medical insurance so if anything happens to them, they are pretty much fucked for life with debt.

We have bigger problems here at home.
true


do you have medical insurance?

and before anybody says, yes I know insurance rates go up more because of people with a lack of insurance.  or at least that what im led to believe
I do. I pay 167.53 a month. My employer pays the other half.
I've had a MRI, knee surgery, rehab for knee and two cat-scans. Rotator cuff surgery coming after my football league ends in January. Worth every penny. I see many here just go on Mass health and never pay the bills that they do get. It cuts back on their drinking money. Or they might have to work a bit more.
GetSplit
Member
+3|6853|Bloomington, IL

IRONCHEF wrote:

GetSplit wrote:

Isn't the sign the lady is holding in pink a bit contradictory  "Support our troops, bring them home".  Thats like if your daughter is trying to be a hollywood actor, and ur like "I back you 100%, why dont you come home for awhile".  Unless the lady in pink is giving us instructions: Step 1) Support our troops, Step 2) add 2 cups of milk, Step 3) bring to a simmer, Step 4) Bring troops home.

that and the lady looks stupid
The lady in pink's sign is not contradictory.  But the right wing can't understand that point of view.  They think we all hate soldiers and call them all baby-killers or something.  In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find ANY liberals (even those on the outter fringes) blaming ANYTHING on the soldiers or criticizing them (well, maybe the lieing recruiters).  So when liberals, or anti-war protestors say to support the tropps by bringing them home, it simply means that they want these kids home safely..and that is the support.  THis is in opposition to the warhawks that think by throwing our troops in civil warfare and terrorist training grounds is ok as long as they put a magnet on their car and hang a flag from the window and put out "good vibes" to the soldiers.  Seriously, i want to friggen drop C4 in the trunks of EVERY friggen loser who has one of those "support our troops" magnets on their vehicles who thinks that's how you support troops.  But since it's their misguided "freedom of speech" they will go unscathed. 

A perfect example of an anti-war voice who supports our troops is Michael Moore.  He could have very easily just been a complaining voice, but instead, he's done ALOT for patriotism, for soldiers, and for education around this country.  I like Mike.
I definitely agree with you on the trunk magnet shit, i hate that.  But I disagree with you on Micheal Moore, I think he annoys me, and I think the best representation of him, is how they depicted him in Team America: World police.

However, I understand that bringing them home safely is the best kind of support you can give to a soldier and thats all any of them truly want.  But these soldiers voluteered to enlist, that was their choice.  If they didn't want to be doing what they're doing, they never would've signed up.  So to me, that sign is trying to negate their decision to defend their countries interests...even if it is for a stupid cause.

This is why I hate politics haha, I just think everyone is stupid...must've came from working with the general population for too long

edit:  back to my other post of bringing everything home, and keeping a "hands-off" mindset to foreign affairs...that military budget, that 340 billion dollars, I'd much rather see that used for free health care...we can't let Canada have something that's better than ours

Last edited by GetSplit (2006-11-02 13:03:32)

Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6892|The Land of Scott Walker

PRiMACORD wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Iraq War Costs:
-340 billion dollars
-700M Iraqi People Died
-2800 Americans Died
I don't know really.
and how has effected your day to day life. honestly, how?

and serge, your proving my point.  that 700 thousand is utter bullshit
You're saying that 340 billion couldn't be used in better ways?

How about our piece of shit medical system? Something to the tune of 50 million Americans have no medical insurance so if anything happens to them, they are pretty much fucked for life with debt.

We have bigger problems here at home.
I am one of those 50 million Americans who have no medical insurance.  Guess what?  I have access to insurance through work, but I refuse to sign up for it because I can't afford it!  I think many of those 50 million are like me - they do have access to insurance but won’t pay for it.  Why, because I’ve already got debt I’m trying to pay down!  It’s much much cheaper than purchasing it on my own, sure, but right now $400/mo. for health insurance is impossible for me.  It's my fault, not the government's.  And I won't go to the hospital now unless I'm dying or severely injured.  No running to the doctor when I've got the sniffles like some do.

The medical system could lower its costs if malpractice insurance wasn't so god awful high thanks to the bullshit lawsuits we see so often now days.  People attempting to get rich through a lawsuit instead of getting off their butts and working for it.  Disgraceful.  But the Democratic government of my state does not see those as a problem and is doing nothing to put caps on lawsuits to help the medical industry.  Coverage for the doctors goes up, so they pass along the increase to their patients and the insurance industry. They should heavily fine lawyers who file frivolous lawsuits and it would cut down on that crap.  Being a consumer in relation to medical treatment helps, too, if you’re not part of an HMO.  Shop around, see who’s good at what they do and how much they charge.  When hospitals start seeing people looking at what they’re paying for, instead of just letting insurance pick it up without a thought, things will begin to change.  This is not a federal problem, it’s a state issue.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2006-11-02 13:15:57)

Clark W Griswald
Banned
+15|6847|Chicago

RDMC(2) wrote:

I think the US got like bored, so Bush made a gathering and was like..mmm..which country can we blame for something that is bad enough for invasion.
Wow......such a stupid comment.  We did not invade, we resumed hostilities.  We never signed a peace treaty with Iraq, we were just in a cease fire since 1991.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6985|Long Island, New York

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Iraq War Costs:
-340 billion dollars
-700M Iraqi People Died
-2800 Americans Died
I don't know really.
and how has effected your day to day life. honestly, how?

and serge, your proving my point.  that 700 thousand is utter bullshit
Global warming isn't effecting my day to day life either right now. I still worry about it.

Just because it doesn't effect you doesn't mean you can't be against it.
GetSplit
Member
+3|6853|Bloomington, IL
but are you protesting against global warming? Wearing pink, and holding signs?
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6938|Northern California

GetSplit wrote:

However, I understand that bringing them home safely is the best kind of support you can give to a soldier and thats all any of them truly want.  But these soldiers voluteered to enlist, that was their choice.  If they didn't want to be doing what they're doing, they never would've signed up.  So to me, that sign is trying to negate their decision to defend their countries interests...even if it is for a stupid cause.
Well, those troops are part of the "people" and they belong to the "people" of this country, not the president.  As a people (or the majority thereof), we want them home.  That's all the reasoning one needs to have.  Also, those "volunteers" did not sign on the dotted line because they wanted to be used to quell civil unrest in a terrorist training/breeding ground called Iraq.  They signed partially because they wanted to be in uniform, get trained, be a good citizen and possibly defend our country...but mostly because of the bullshit their recruiters promised them.  I just watched a segment on free speech tv that showed interviews with recently discharged and wounded soldiers who talked about the "whys" of service...A good 90% of them (and this is probably true for those not surveyed) wanted money for college, were promised local or no-deployment unless we were invaded (nat'l guard), and to get educated.  Michael Moore points out alot of this in his F9/11 movie where he showcases where many of the nation's servicemen and women come from..the poor urban areas of the country..and they all need money and education. 

In short, our government simply does not value it's people, it's enlisted servicemen and women because they (congress/representatives of the people) "gave" them to the president to use how and when he wishes with a blank check to spend money we need and don't even have.  They (our representatives) voilated our constitution and the solemn vow to only use our military when it was absolutely necessary.  It's their duty to only shed our blood as the last possible recourse of action.  They failed.

Be nice if the military had a mass mutiny or a coup.
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6834

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Why protest the war in Iraq. Human beings are selfish animals by nature and NOBODY has lost a cunt hairs worth of their quality of life since 2003.  why do i see a bunch of kids waving their signs  in front of recruiting stations and doing protest walks blocking traffic.  I have more respect for the insurgent that detonates an IED than for all these new wannabe hippies.  I have an open mind though, so I wonder.  If you have felt the need to protest the war in Iraq, why?  I understand that there are sincere people out there against the war, but I think thats the minority.  Th majority of people I have come across that have participated in these types of events are for the most part ill inform and ignorant of the actual goings on of the war.  They base all their opinions on totally biased and inaccurate media sources.  it seriously makes me fucking sick.  I think its abunch of bored shit heads who wanna feel like they are a part of a new generation of hippies.  they dont really feel strong against the war, just rage against the machine if you will.

seriously the only people effected by this war in an adverse way are the citizens of Iraq and the soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines of our armed forces.  no draft.  no rationing. no black outs.  GET REAL FUCKOS!

heres your oppurtunity to change my mind about all the anti war sentiment.
Listen to him, this guy has been there and done that.

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