I have a sneaking suspicion that Clark_W_Griswald is Horseman77. Anyone else think so?
Who?CameronPoe wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that Clark_W_Griswald is Horseman77. Anyone else think so?
In other words, you believe that the people who enlisted to serve had absolutely no idea that there was a possibility that they could be sent at the discretion of the President and country?IRONCHEF wrote:
Well, those troops are part of the "people" and they belong to the "people" of this country, not the president. As a people (or the majority thereof), we want them home. That's all the reasoning one needs to have. Also, those "volunteers" did not sign on the dotted line because they wanted to be used to quell civil unrest in a terrorist training/breeding ground called Iraq. They signed partially because they wanted to be in uniform, get trained, be a good citizen and possibly defend our country...but mostly because of the bullshit their recruiters promised them. I just watched a segment on free speech tv that showed interviews with recently discharged and wounded soldiers who talked about the "whys" of service...A good 90% of them (and this is probably true for those not surveyed) wanted money for college, were promised local or no-deployment unless we were invaded (nat'l guard), and to get educated. Michael Moore points out alot of this in his F9/11 movie where he showcases where many of the nation's servicemen and women come from..the poor urban areas of the country..and they all need money and education.GetSplit wrote:
However, I understand that bringing them home safely is the best kind of support you can give to a soldier and thats all any of them truly want. But these soldiers voluteered to enlist, that was their choice. If they didn't want to be doing what they're doing, they never would've signed up. So to me, that sign is trying to negate their decision to defend their countries interests...even if it is for a stupid cause.
In short, our government simply does not value it's people, it's enlisted servicemen and women because they (congress/representatives of the people) "gave" them to the president to use how and when he wishes with a blank check to spend money we need and don't even have. They (our representatives) voilated our constitution and the solemn vow to only use our military when it was absolutely necessary. It's their duty to only shed our blood as the last possible recourse of action. They failed.
Be nice if the military had a mass mutiny or a coup.
Like they had absolutely no idea at all?
Get real. It's part of signing up. You're a frickin' lawyer...you should know about contracts.
lol, i'm not a lawyer. I'm a systems admin in a law office. And no, I never said the people who enlisted had NO IDEA what could happen, i'm just saying they (probably a majority) probably had no idea of the potential of what could happen. And that's the general consensus I've seen from interviews and other such representations of vets. And frankly, if you're dirt poor and trying to avoid gang violence where you WILL die, it's not a hard choice to join the military because the odds of getting killed in combat are less than in the streets in some towns I imagine. I enlisted when I was right out of high school and if I knew the potential of what could happen THEN like I know now, i'd have NOT enlisted.
I've looked at the faces of the fallen (literally each one reading their name, their unit, cause of death, etc.) and some of them are just kids...like I was when i enlisted long ago. It's not hard to imagine that some of them, if not most, didn't know the full potential of their decision..and i'm gonna say that probably most didn't know they'd die from IEDs or other such situations as experienced in their fields of battle. Some rolled their Humvees into rivers and drowned, some died from friendly fire, some died falling from bridges, buildings, or helicopters. And that's what the pentagon has reported..no telling how some of those kids actually died.
I've looked at the faces of the fallen (literally each one reading their name, their unit, cause of death, etc.) and some of them are just kids...like I was when i enlisted long ago. It's not hard to imagine that some of them, if not most, didn't know the full potential of their decision..and i'm gonna say that probably most didn't know they'd die from IEDs or other such situations as experienced in their fields of battle. Some rolled their Humvees into rivers and drowned, some died from friendly fire, some died falling from bridges, buildings, or helicopters. And that's what the pentagon has reported..no telling how some of those kids actually died.
This generation does not know what a war is. It all takes place half a world away and is unimportant to them. It affects few of the lives back home as people continue going about their business. Nobody is preaching to buy war bonds, no factories have turned to producing equipment and no rationing is taking place. War is an idea as distant as peace. It's just boring now.
That too.DesertFox423 wrote:
This generation does not know what a war is. It all takes place half a world away and is unimportant to them. It affects few of the lives back home as people continue going about their business. Nobody is preaching to buy war bonds, no factories have turned to producing equipment and no rationing is taking place. War is an idea as distant as peace. It's just boring now.
dude, every single one of us knew exactly what the fuck might or might not happen. everybody knows bthe risks. nobody I knew had any trumped up idea of what the life in the military actually was like. and when we lost our brothers to combat, we continued mission.IRONCHEF wrote:
lol, i'm not a lawyer. I'm a systems admin in a law office. And no, I never said the people who enlisted had NO IDEA what could happen, i'm just saying they (probably a majority) probably had no idea of the potential of what could happen. And that's the general consensus I've seen from interviews and other such representations of vets. And frankly, if you're dirt poor and trying to avoid gang violence where you WILL die, it's not a hard choice to join the military because the odds of getting killed in combat are less than in the streets in some towns I imagine. I enlisted when I was right out of high school and if I knew the potential of what could happen THEN like I know now, i'd have NOT enlisted.
I've looked at the faces of the fallen (literally each one reading their name, their unit, cause of death, etc.) and some of them are just kids...like I was when i enlisted long ago. It's not hard to imagine that some of them, if not most, didn't know the full potential of their decision..and i'm gonna say that probably most didn't know they'd die from IEDs or other such situations as experienced in their fields of battle. Some rolled their Humvees into rivers and drowned, some died from friendly fire, some died falling from bridges, buildings, or helicopters. And that's what the pentagon has reported..no telling how some of those kids actually died.
DesertFox423 wrote:
This generation does not know what a war is. It all takes place half a world away and is unimportant to them. It affects few of the lives back home as people continue going about their business. Nobody is preaching to buy war bonds, no factories have turned to producing equipment and no rationing is taking place. War is an idea as distant as peace. It's just boring now.
1) a lot of people do not realize, that Democracy does not work everywhere. trying to spread our democracy to a socialist country WILL lead to a disaster, because the people living in that country wouldn't know what to do with freedom when they get it. If we took Kim Jung Il out of power, to "give N. Korea freedom" it wouldn't work, they would just collapse because they were brainwashed by a tyrant. the wouldn't know how to live with freedom.
2) the majority of Iraq, 60% i believe, don't even know that anything is going on in their country. they have no clue that America is in their country defeating terrorism. i bet a lot of them don't even know about America due to the sheer isolation that they live in.
3) Oil prices are going up because of inflation, not because the war is hiking up a major bill.
4) in think we oughta stay in Afghanistan, because of Bin Laden.
I'm not a liberal, I'm more of a moderate on the republican side... I'm just getting sick and tired of politics. Since i live in a swing state, campaigning is everywhere, and its making me sick by this point. still want to voice my opinion.
2) the majority of Iraq, 60% i believe, don't even know that anything is going on in their country. they have no clue that America is in their country defeating terrorism. i bet a lot of them don't even know about America due to the sheer isolation that they live in.
3) Oil prices are going up because of inflation, not because the war is hiking up a major bill.
4) in think we oughta stay in Afghanistan, because of Bin Laden.
I'm not a liberal, I'm more of a moderate on the republican side... I'm just getting sick and tired of politics. Since i live in a swing state, campaigning is everywhere, and its making me sick by this point. still want to voice my opinion.
wordGunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Ive been the army for 6 years, including 5 years active duty
You claim to have been through a whopping few months of AIT and then, get medically discharged soon thereafter?
who knows more about soldiers, me or you? I think me.
Pug angry. Pug smash.IRONCHEF wrote:
lol, i'm not a lawyer. I'm a systems admin in a law office. And no, I never said the people who enlisted had NO IDEA what could happen, i'm just saying they (probably a majority) probably had no idea of the potential of what could happen. And that's the general consensus I've seen from interviews and other such representations of vets. And frankly, if you're dirt poor and trying to avoid gang violence where you WILL die, it's not a hard choice to join the military because the odds of getting killed in combat are less than in the streets in some towns I imagine. I enlisted when I was right out of high school and if I knew the potential of what could happen THEN like I know now, i'd have NOT enlisted.
I've looked at the faces of the fallen (literally each one reading their name, their unit, cause of death, etc.) and some of them are just kids...like I was when i enlisted long ago. It's not hard to imagine that some of them, if not most, didn't know the full potential of their decision..and i'm gonna say that probably most didn't know they'd die from IEDs or other such situations as experienced in their fields of battle. Some rolled their Humvees into rivers and drowned, some died from friendly fire, some died falling from bridges, buildings, or helicopters. And that's what the pentagon has reported..no telling how some of those kids actually died.
You are incredibly jaded to the point where it defies common sense.
Here's some things you have stated in this post and the other I quoted, which I disagree with.
Please clarify:
1) The President wants to kill his own troops, because he does not value them. Previous Chef answer: True
2) The military is an option for education (if poor) and to improve one's status in life (if they live in the hood). The odds of getting killed in combat are less than on the streets. Therefore, they signed up for the military because they were tricked. Previous Chef answer: Tricked
3) Signing up for the military means you will never have to serve in a warzone. Previous Chef answers: True, but then maybe.
4) Congress approving to fund Iraq was actually a violation of our constitution. Previous Chef answer: True
5) It would be nice if the US military had a mass mutiny or coup. Previous Chef answer: True
In every one of these opinions, you have posted crap. There is a difference between SUPPORTING YOUR COUNTRY and POLITICS, ya' know? There also is a difference between politics and reality.
Volunteers are completely informed about the contract they sign. Politicians aren't sending troops to other countries without some sort of debate - even if you disagree with the premise or the results - the fact is you can't claim the Constitution was circumvented or laws have been broken.
I feel bad that the soldiers are there and they're dying...but I'm not stretching the truth to trying to support my own agenda.
Get a grip.
Last edited by Pug (2006-11-02 15:34:19)
thats why we one of the first things you do when you enlist is sign up for life insurance so mom wont miss out on nearly half a mil
and also the 12k funeral cost that you must specify to
I seen your pictures man, you seem like you have a terrific family and are quite happy at where you are at IRONCHEF. I can honestly say the military was most definately not for you.
and also the 12k funeral cost that you must specify to
I seen your pictures man, you seem like you have a terrific family and are quite happy at where you are at IRONCHEF. I can honestly say the military was most definately not for you.
Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-11-02 14:51:32)
i think what we really need is some hard times here in the states to shut those protesters up. Maybe if they realized its bigger than they are, we can get a little support, like back in the good ol days of WW2. Imagine gas, plastic, rubber, nylon rationing again. Get everyone together and save and protect resources to make them feel like they are doing something worthwhile instead of protesting and getting in the way of people who have jobs to do.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Why protest the war in Iraq. Human beings are selfish animals by nature and NOBODY has lost a cunt hairs worth of their quality of life since 2003. why do i see a bunch of kids waving their signs in front of recruiting stations and doing protest walks blocking traffic. I have more respect for the insurgent that detonates an IED than for all these new wannabe hippies. I have an open mind though, so I wonder. If you have felt the need to protest the war in Iraq, why? I understand that there are sincere people out there against the war, but I think thats the minority. Th majority of people I have come across that have participated in these types of events are for the most part ill inform and ignorant of the actual goings on of the war. They base all their opinions on totally biased and inaccurate media sources. it seriously makes me fucking sick. I think its abunch of bored shit heads who wanna feel like they are a part of a new generation of hippies. they dont really feel strong against the war, just rage against the machine if you will.
seriously the only people effected by this war in an adverse way are the citizens of Iraq and the soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines of our armed forces. no draft. no rationing. no black outs. GET REAL FUCKOS!
heres your oppurtunity to change my mind about all the anti war sentiment.
Everyone uses way more fuel than they need to but no one realizes their own actions actually contribute to trouble in the middle east. Yeah go ahead blame it on our government, but its everyones fault, so sit down, take some accountability and stop driving to the corner store thats 300 yards/meters from your freaking front door.
Oh yeah, btw, i do carpool and have taken public transportation when i can and once im at work, i walk to lunch and never drive to the corner store unless im getting gas.
I'm fully covered through my employer. It's not me I worry about...GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
truePRiMACORD wrote:
You're saying that 340 billion couldn't be used in better ways?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
and how has effected your day to day life. honestly, how?
and serge, your proving my point. that 700 thousand is utter bullshit
How about our piece of shit medical system? Something to the tune of 50 million Americans have no medical insurance so if anything happens to them, they are pretty much fucked for life with debt.
We have bigger problems here at home.
do you have medical insurance?
and before anybody says, yes I know insurance rates go up more because of people with a lack of insurance. or at least that what im led to believe
I have a friend who is fully covered as well, except his senior citizen parents are not and he has to dish out $600 a month for them. 600 a month, thats a car payment
Medical coverage in the frozen igloo on top of us = Free
I think we can do better then the bloody canucks
How do you tag in different colors? lolPug wrote:
Pug angry. Pug smash.
You are incredibly jaded to the point where it defines common sense.
Here's some things you have stated in this post and the other I quoted, which I disagree with.
Please clarify:
1) The President wants to kill his own troops, because he does not value them. Previous Chef answer: True
Your words, not mine, but true..and from daily evidence, special interests of the president are more important than the lives of our military.
2) The military is an option for education (if poor) and to improve one's status in life (if they live in the hood). The odds of getting killed in combat are less than on the streets. Therefore, they signed up for the military because they were tricked. Previous Chef answer: Tricked
"tricked?" I don't remember saying that. I do remember saying that many of those who enlist, including myself and a friend, and those in a tv program interviewed all said they didn't know what they were getting into.
3) Signing up for the military means you will never have to serve in a warzone. Previous Chef answers: True, but then maybe.
Again, i didn't say that. I did include context to a sentence suggesting that a national guardsman was promised they'd get local deployments or a defensive deployment somewhere in the country if the country was invaded. Not sure where you're getting this.
4) Congress approving to fund Iraq was actually a violation of our constitution. Previous Chef answer: True
I said Congress doesn't have the right to forfeit their ownership of the military to the executive branch, and it being unconstitutional. The reference to them giving Bush a blank financial check was probably violating the war powers act (it is to be determined exact amounts of money, no blank checks), but may not be unconstitutional..but doesn't matter, it's still violating the war powers act which is just as bad.
5) It would be nice if the US military had a mass mutiny or coup. Previous Chef answer: True
Why is this crap? It's how our country was founded...sort of. Colonists, made up of civilians and english military did defect/mutiny to declare independence from the crown. It's actually provisioned for in our constitution to do so..and my opinion is that it should happen. Many good things could come of it.
In every one of these opinions, you have posted crap. There is a difference between SUPPORTING YOUR COUNTRY and POLITICS, ya' know? There also is a difference between politics and reality.
Volunteers are completely informed about the contract they sign. Not true. I've seen video documented proof to the contrary and 1st hand experience contrary. Politicians aren't sending troops to other countries without some sort of debate lol, i wont even bother arguing this - even if you disagree with the premise or the results - the fact is you can't claim the Constitution was circumvented or laws have been broken.
I feel bad that the soldiers are there and they're dying...but I'm not stretching the truth to trying to support my own agenda. I have an agenda? Ooh, do tell me what it is.
Get a grip.I've got a good grip on life and my opinions. Sorry they anger you. Maybe don't take things out of proportion because of your agenda? I'm not here to offend, but it sounds like you were so offended.
Last edited by IRONCHEF (2006-11-02 15:35:11)
Alright you two. Cool off or take it up via PM.
man, i get so mad when people lie about their service in the military not expecting to be busted out on it, but you are 100% correct. hey, at least I never claimed to be nothing more than a grunt who likes to swear alot.Marconius wrote:
Alright you two. Cool off or take it up via PM.
Why would I lie about enlisting 15 years ago, performing basic training, then being discharged for psoriasis? I was actually upset by that. You don't gotta rub it in and insult me saying I lied. What do I have to gain by lieing.
so any genuine people with an opinion out here other than those that I have already exchanged dialogue with
Do you need a REASON to protest DEATH?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Why protest the war in Iraq. Human beings are selfish animals by nature and NOBODY has lost a cunt hairs worth of their quality of life since 2003. why do i see a bunch of kids waving their signs in front of recruiting stations and doing protest walks blocking traffic. I have more respect for the insurgent that detonates an IED than for all these new wannabe hippies. I have an open mind though, so I wonder. If you have felt the need to protest the war in Iraq, why? I understand that there are sincere people out there against the war, but I think thats the minority. Th majority of people I have come across that have participated in these types of events are for the most part ill inform and ignorant of the actual goings on of the war. They base all their opinions on totally biased and inaccurate media sources. it seriously makes me fucking sick. I think its abunch of bored shit heads who wanna feel like they are a part of a new generation of hippies. they dont really feel strong against the war, just rage against the machine if you will.
seriously the only people effected by this war in an adverse way are the citizens of Iraq and the soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines of our armed forces. no draft. no rationing. no black outs. GET REAL FUCKOS!
heres your oppurtunity to change my mind about all the anti war sentiment.
I'm not offended, I'm just disappointed with you. (Ahh Dad...come on....)IRONCHEF wrote:
I've got a good grip on life and my opinions. Sorry they anger you. Maybe don't take things out of proportion because of your agenda? I'm not here to offend, but it sounds like you were so offended.
I have a problem with people who cannot separate reality from politics. Disagreeing with your government does not give you the right to say that everything is illegal, nor does it give you the right to distort the truth. We have to live with the "truth" that is created to accomplish your agenda.
I originally had a bunch here (ohhhh 300 words or so) deleted, because it's a waste of our time...plus its not really the point. Felt pretty good, but no one really is going to read it anyway. I can refute your post if you really need to hear it but it's not going to do you a lick of good.
What exactly is my agenda you ask?
I want Iraq to end, and as fast as possible. And I'm tired of having people extend the truth to service an ideal, even if I agree with the end result.
But I cannot sit back and allow someone to exaggerate things in an attempt to end the war faster.
Its the same as the Lancet survey - I cannot accept 655k dead because I have to live with that number. I cannot believe my government actively plots the deaths of our own citizens by tricking/finding ignorant new recruits, telling them they'll get traffic duty in Duluth and then sends them to an active warzone - and this is all done on purpose. I cannot believe invading Iraq was "like a whim" and the decision was made with little thought or discussion. I also cannot believe overthrowing (aka violent as you put it) of our government system as a "good thing" for America.
You're criticizing the government with inaccuracies - why? I don't have a problem with gov't criticism...just conspiracy theories and lies. I know you might not see it that way...but I ask you from personal experience in enlisting - who's fault is it for it "not being like you thought it would be"? Exaggeration accomplishes what? The troops come home early/some new Party is controlling the government? At what price? Anarchy?
I'm kind of neutral on GS' OP. People have the right to voice their opinion, just like people have the right to label them as loonies or geniuses. But it's popular to bash the war...how well informed are people?...is their message ruined by their ignorance or actions...like wearing a pink dress, excessive pointless fucking swearing or starting a thread with "Hulk smash" detracts from the real message is.
How the war impacted me: my neighbor came back pretty screwed up, we have Navy pilot wives we hang out with who are stressed. But the weirdest thing is that this website is the only place I find such harsh political critics...and I live in a sleepy Navy town.
Sorry Marconis...still on topic...sorry about the tone...my son went as the Hulk for Halloween.
This is a great thread...I read all day until I had an adverse reaction...sorry about participating.
Last edited by Pug (2006-11-02 18:04:07)
Hey me too, But ill tell you this, those stingers HURT man. That thing crushed the hell out of my Rt shoulder when it fell off that dang Picker. My shoulder was the only thing that kept it from hitting the ground.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
man, i get so mad when people lie about their service in the military not expecting to be busted out on it, but you are 100% correct. hey, at least I never claimed to be nothing more than a grunt who likes to swear alot.Marconius wrote:
Alright you two. Cool off or take it up via PM.
My wife said i came home with a swearing problem LMAO. Heck, She would too with 2 surgeries before she got back here lol.
I've only read up to page 2 of this thread, so bear with me if I'm restating what others have said before me, because there's so many points, one cannot cover them all at once.
Gunslinger, I see what you mean about the demonstrators out there. Recently I was watching an Alex Jones documentary, and at one point where he roams around amongst protesters I was like, omg, those people are really stupid! I was so disappointed with the answers some of them gave ([Lib] and [Con] alike)... They were like sheep just following the herd, not really knowing why they were there or what they were protesting about...
From a personal experience, I can say that the same thing goes for Greece as well. Generally the climate here is not so party-like, with less costumes, nut-jobs and silly stuff, the people concentrate more on the political issues at hand and they are more obviously divided in groups according to the political party or philosophy they go by. Also riots occur more often here so clowns ain't so common. It is unavoidable though... when you mingle with the crowd it is certain you're going to hear some pretty stupid stuff.
The point is: you're expecting too much from people... disappointment is the most likely result.
If you can get past the fact that most of them will just go along for the ride because they are told to do so, then you might discover the positive aspects of having large demonstrations. It's like Ironchef said: they're the salt of the earth.
History has taught us that lots of stuff have been achieved when people take the streets. We the people after all are the ones who posses the true power, not some asshole in some office somewhere...
Remember Seattle during the G8 summit a few years back for example? That was a great one in my opinion! Some guys had even made a trebuchet ffs!!! Seriously, at that point a framework was set for a global movement against the globalization of the market (later took place in Davos and Genova among other places).
Failures will come, especially since lately people have been demonstrating for nearly anything... but trust me on this, when the time comes for something sinister to happen, it will all start by a large demonstration by people who will no longer be hesitant or afraid to voice their opinion.
Gunslinger, I see what you mean about the demonstrators out there. Recently I was watching an Alex Jones documentary, and at one point where he roams around amongst protesters I was like, omg, those people are really stupid! I was so disappointed with the answers some of them gave ([Lib] and [Con] alike)... They were like sheep just following the herd, not really knowing why they were there or what they were protesting about...
From a personal experience, I can say that the same thing goes for Greece as well. Generally the climate here is not so party-like, with less costumes, nut-jobs and silly stuff, the people concentrate more on the political issues at hand and they are more obviously divided in groups according to the political party or philosophy they go by. Also riots occur more often here so clowns ain't so common. It is unavoidable though... when you mingle with the crowd it is certain you're going to hear some pretty stupid stuff.
The point is: you're expecting too much from people... disappointment is the most likely result.
If you can get past the fact that most of them will just go along for the ride because they are told to do so, then you might discover the positive aspects of having large demonstrations. It's like Ironchef said: they're the salt of the earth.
History has taught us that lots of stuff have been achieved when people take the streets. We the people after all are the ones who posses the true power, not some asshole in some office somewhere...
Remember Seattle during the G8 summit a few years back for example? That was a great one in my opinion! Some guys had even made a trebuchet ffs!!! Seriously, at that point a framework was set for a global movement against the globalization of the market (later took place in Davos and Genova among other places).
Failures will come, especially since lately people have been demonstrating for nearly anything... but trust me on this, when the time comes for something sinister to happen, it will all start by a large demonstration by people who will no longer be hesitant or afraid to voice their opinion.
Last edited by oug (2006-11-02 18:46:12)
ƒ³
Elaborating on this, do we even have battles anymore? No, since we're not even fighting an army. America won the war part by somewhat of a landslide, now we're having problems with the maintaining the peace facet. America is the equivalent of the 18th century British now, we're one of, if not, the best conventional warfare forces in the world, but we have no units to deal with the guerilla sons'a'guns.DesertFox423 wrote:
This generation does not know what a war is. It all takes place half a world away and is unimportant to them. It affects few of the lives back home as people continue going about their business. Nobody is preaching to buy war bonds, no factories have turned to producing equipment and no rationing is taking place. War is an idea as distant as peace. It's just boring now.
I agree that protesting seems rather pointless. Ever since I found out about those Westboro Baptist Assholes, I distanced myself from protesters in general. It sickens my stomach the way that some people really take the freedom of speech for granted.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Why protest the war in Iraq. Human beings are selfish animals by nature and NOBODY has lost a cunt hairs worth of their quality of life since 2003. why do i see a bunch of kids waving their signs in front of recruiting stations and doing protest walks blocking traffic. I have more respect for the insurgent that detonates an IED than for all these new wannabe hippies. I have an open mind though, so I wonder. If you have felt the need to protest the war in Iraq, why? I understand that there are sincere people out there against the war, but I think thats the minority. Th majority of people I have come across that have participated in these types of events are for the most part ill inform and ignorant of the actual goings on of the war. They base all their opinions on totally biased and inaccurate media sources. it seriously makes me fucking sick. I think its abunch of bored shit heads who wanna feel like they are a part of a new generation of hippies. they dont really feel strong against the war, just rage against the machine if you will.
seriously the only people effected by this war in an adverse way are the citizens of Iraq and the soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines of our armed forces. no draft. no rationing. no black outs. GET REAL FUCKOS!
heres your oppurtunity to change my mind about all the anti war sentiment.
Regardless, I've always been against the War with Iraq. I just thought it was wholly unnecessary, and when most of the world is so vocally against something, it usually means it's a horrible idea. One thing you don't hear much about is that millions of people throughout the world protested the Iraqi war as it happened. Every continent (even a small group of scientists in Antarctica) had some kind of major protest during that war. I don't think there's ever been any other war we've engaged in that evoked that kind of global reaction.
Putting all of this into context, I still respect the people who risk their lives in this operation, but this is why I want them out of Iraq. It just seems like such a waste of life and money. When the dust settles in Iraq ten years from now, we can say that we tried to do something good, but it's likely that all that will be there is continual bloodshed....