BF2S Forums HiND not all its cracked up to be?

stryyker wrote:

the main purpose of the hind is to be a troop carrier capable of defending itself, so why does it only hold 2 people, when it could obviously hold 6? just wondering, cause the Apache usually dominates anywhays

actually a hind is to go in, clear the LZ, drop troops off, provide air cover, leave.  your typical air assault would have a few hinds and a few hips/halos... making one hell of a pain in the ass force.  Hinds are also used in armour hunting packs... anyways, theres lots of things a hind can do, it's main role -is not- a troop carrier.
They made it -only- an attack chopper in the game because it would seriously screw with the balance of the game... no longer does each side have 1 transport chopper, but 3, two of which have a boatload of firepower.

ug, been covered many times in other posts...

IF the hind could carry troops an assault chopper capable of transporting would creat balance issues. also, if you could have engineers in there it would be ridiculous.

the ONLY way I'd see this is a good change is if they also gave it the manueverability of the flying boat MEC transports, but even then it would still be too unbalanced in my opinion.

Last edited by dshak (2005-12-08 14:20:04)

stryyker wrote:

the main purpose of the hind is to be a troop carrier capable of defending itself, so why does it only hold 2 people, when it could obviously hold 6? just wondering, cause the Apache usually dominates anywhays

The hind honestly should have been the MEC transport helo to start with, instead of the brick with rotar they get (Mi-17).  Seriously the chopper balance in this game is screwed.  The MEC get a heavy slow to manuver pice of crap, with 2 .50 cals similar to a jeep.  It's only bonus is that it can take a hit well, but with the wide open back it is just screaming M203 HERE!!  If you could put a jeep or somthing in it, then the open back would make sence.  If people had to get in and out, it would make sence.  We don't we just teleport, as long as scotty stays safe we don't need doors.  Also, you don't honestly take much more damage, considering how much harder it is to get a crew in this chopper (such as an egineer), and it's low manuverability/speed it goes down much faster 90% of the time.  Hell the only reason the Mi-17 is used is because it can carry 32 people. . . That is the whole fucking team! The black hawk is only meant to hold 11 passangers.  Admitadly that is still more than the 6 currently. . . espcialy if you consider gunners and pilots are not crew, yet still far short of the 32 the Mi-17 carries.  This thing should either hold 2 squads or be replaced with a multi role helo like the blackhawk is.  Which Миль (Mi) makes, the Mi-24 AKA Hind!

The Z-8 is also kind of a joke.  The Z-8 in the game is not a Z-8, it is a Zhi-8A, which is the army's varation, the Zhi-8 is a naval helo.  But this is so rarely used by the PLA it is not funny.  This design has been often critsized, I do not china has made more than 2 per year since it entered service in 1999.  They should have used the S-70C  for the PLA, as that is well balanced to the blackhawk. . . if the name "Sikorsky S-70C" sound familure, here is somthing that might jog your memory "Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk"  Sikorsky is a US helo manufacture who works with goverment defense contracts.  They have perviously sold several helos the the PLA including several black hawks.

The US gets a blackhawk that flys great and has 2 mini guns.  Sure the damage on them is slightly lower, but do you actualy notice?  Hell if the thing barely misses you get a daze effect.  Although Also the doors choper are also open, this chopper has no gun ports!

Also for the Spec forces attack helo to replace the hind use the Kamov Ka-50.  It is a single pilot russian gunship.  Although thier are variants that are made for 2 pilots (such as the Ka-52).  This has been used and battle tested by the russian military.

Mi-17
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-17

Sikorsky S-70 (black Hawk)
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/helicopter/s70.asp

Zhi-8A (I had to look like hell to find pictures of this, but worked out since this page had the S-70 info too)
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/helicopter/z8.asp

Миль Mi-24 (Hind)
http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/mi-24_hind.pl

Миль Mi-28 (Havok)
http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/mi-28_havoc.pl

Sikorsky UH-60 (Black Hawk)
http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/uh-60_blackhawk.pl

Kamov Ka-50 Hokum
http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/ka-50_hokum.pl

Last edited by Umbra Acciptris (2005-12-09 04:56:09)

Umbra Acciptris wrote:

Sikorsky S-70 (black Hawk)
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/helicopter/s70.asp

That  http://www.sinodefence.com  website is choked full of pretty neat info. I enjoyed it quite a bit. Thanks for finding it.

As for your summary of helicopters used I have to agree. DICE doesn't introduce helicopters in the game to fullfill roles and instead they do it only so they can have different looking platforms in the game.

For example if the USMC and the PLA both had BHs then there would be whining that people couldn't tell which one was which even though it shouldn't really matter. Or they would claim that DICE was lazy and didn't want to code a different model helicopter for the PLA so they just used the BH for both.

I agree with you absolutely in that they could do much better with their research and realize that they do not have to undercut the MEC and PLA so much to make an obvious US superior standpoint. But people will still complain however at least then they would be complaining against real life facts for a change.

I want BH with missile pods on them. I can't count how many times I've done gunship runs with the BH and see armor sitting there within perfect attack run of my helicopter. Give me missles and I would light up armor left and right. Give the MEC the Hind and the BH missles and then we can have some real gunship transport game play.

I don't know why but i can't fly the HIND. I have no problems with flying the bf2 choppers and the apache, but the HIND just moves like a rock. It seems to be even more unmaneuverable than the blackhawk.

The blackhawk is quite manueverable with practice. Of all the transport helos it's the only one i have been able to do a full back flip in stabilize it out without ever getting near the ground. (it was halarious listening to my squad mates freak over VOIP) as i did a flip in the center of ghost town then leveled out and descended to a level low enough to take the convo flag. (surprisingly no one was there otherwise we'd have been screwed.)

Anyway i agree the helos are extremly miss matched. How many times have you see a crew in a blackhawk survive the whole round and get tons of kilsl because of the mini-guns and an eingeer for repairing. (competant pilot as well.) Well me i've seen it plenty of times. but I've never seen the MEC or PLA helos owning. You actually have to aim with the 50 call the minigun is basically a long range shotgun just point and shoot they will die.

Ah well in all honostly I have never seen the helos to be a big problem in SF. for the most part they will get dropped before they can do much damage. You know it would have been great to seem some mobil artilery. USMC would have to get Paladins. I would love to see the MLRS but they have such a large area of a effect it would be to much of a problem really.

I meen the paladin would not be a very good close up tank because of it's long reloading time and weaker armor compared to a tank thought with practice it would be more deadly anyway because of the accuracy of just dropping a round on enemies from a good distance away.

I agree, I think the Hokum should have been in SF instead of the Hind...and as for the MEC/PLA transports, those have been long known to be underbalanced compared to the BH....maybe just maybe DICE will do something about it eventually, but don't hold you're breath. Personally I would have loved to have seen the CH-53 instead of the UH-60. BTW, nice research, Umbra...

http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/ch … tallion.pl

beeng wrote:

Deedubya wrote:

I agree, I think the Hokum

too bad no one uses the hokum because the twin rotor proved to be problematic

Meh, not problematic in a video game!

Last edited by Deedubya (2005-12-16 00:27:55)

Deedubya wrote:

beeng wrote:

Deedubya wrote:

I agree, I think the Hokum

too bad no one uses the hokum because the twin rotor proved to be problematic

Meh, not problematic in a video game!

Oh no, even MORE problematic in a video game !

wow i think the HIND and the Apache fly the same and are the easiest helicopters to fly, but hey thats just me.  I like the Apache waaaayyy more though

so theyre the same but you like one waaaayyy more ? is it the color ? bodystyle? maybe the upholstery?

no the apache is much more maveuvreable than the hind but more importantly the radius on the rockets are much closer so its probably twice as accurate. same thing goes for the mi-28 i have only lost a dogfight with say a cobra vs mi-28 havok a few times .. thats is pilot vs pilot

is realy unbalanced so much so that if im lookin to pilot a chopper i try to be on usa or china and avoid mec like the plague ..maybe dice should balance this? i dont care if its realistic or not this is a game

i think the splash damage on the attack choppers isn't hight enough. i can land a rocket within a metre away from a sinlge infantry and they dont even die. I quite like flying the attack choppers when i get the chance, especialle the apache, so i'm not looking forward to only having 8 missiles in the payload, but if the blast radius was increased more i think it would be worth having less missiles!!!