BF2S Forums 17-0, or 35-12?

i've been 84-1

if only there was some kind of online game were a team of snipers and a team of medics could compete in some way to demonstrate which is better... if only.

@Todd, jemme, & rats. I'm sorry if you stubbornly ignore the way the game is balanced. If you don't see why invincibility is useful for the team, then you are a damn fool.

You actually have the audacity to say that my info here is based solely on my personal experience, and yet there are almost no experienced BF2 players that use the sniper kit in matches. a few "wookies" and random noobs surfing in from the internet are the only people that post in this thread saying the sniper kit has some kind of great potential that could be compared with medics (LOL). Its then very ironic how your main argument is that youve experienced cases where snipers somehow helped win. Is your point that your personal experience means more than mine+everybody else? It sounds like a very weak point that you keep coming back to.

u never explain what the great sniper potential is that makes it better for defending and capturing flags than the medic kit except that ur so leet and can KILL everybody faster than they can kill OR revive (hows that for arrogant?). we should all bear in mind that all three of you have very weak combat stats, avg kpm of .6, so its not like we are hearing from talented players that have learned how to put the sniper kit to some better use. Its still that mediocre kit that kills slightly better than ARs at unnecessary distances and doesn't have shockpaddles. And todd is dumb enough to point out that he doesnt hide but instead charges with the sniper kit. i mean dude, u couldnt communicate more clearly to us that u are a just another bad player that doesnt take advantage of the way the game works, but instead does whatever u want because u obviously think u are some incredibly smart, infallible individual that has some unique BF2 specialty that somehow transcends the balance of the game. The only intelligent thing said by any of you so far is this:

ssonrats wrote:

I don't care if our team loses.

its perfectly alright to lose. Remember it’s a game and you should be doing whatever is fun. My opinion for the OP was that its not very fun to get a good score when I know I deliberately helped my teammates less by not reviving them. If winning the round and helping your teammates is the goal, then heres a good way of thinking it through:

aj0404 wrote:

i would take your round of 32-10 over your round of 17-0.with the first round you took 32 tickets from the other team and lost 10 for your team,which basically means you took 22 tickets from the other team.with your other round you took 17 tickets from the other team.i'd say you were more valuable to your team in your 32-10 round.

aj doesn’t even mention how the short range capabilities of medics make it possible for them to be in their element, reviving and killing, WHILE being near to flags/spawnpoints.

But if you don’t mind losing and being of less help to others (you will be helping the other team tho) then do whatever and have fun, the OP just wanted us to discuss our opinions on the scores. The conclusion to the debate is subjective. If you want to see how this debate concluded in a thread concerning the usefulness of sniper, medic and other strategies in a more objective sense (relevant to winning), see this thread: http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 3#p1352063

Jemme101 wrote:

Oh but it is ok for people to abuse me because I favor the Sniper kit. You fail at logic.

It looks like your post is the by product of fetal alcohol syndrome coupled with the need to speak without thinking.

Nobody said anything about you favouring the sniper kit before you posted this

Funny how IO got slipped in by the Medic whores while the OP didnt mention it at all. But if that is what you need to make a point good for you.
In the meantime Medics are worthless, because half the time they are either to stupid to revive/medpack you or run up to you in the middle of the street and revive you when a PKM has us boresighted. The sole reason why IO Karkand is for noobs.

I can see why you think medics are worthless though, we can't camp for 2 hours or put claymores on flags or nothing that you do grats

17-0 or 35-12?

Shit, I would be happy either way.  The play style is all dependent upon the mood that I'm in at the time.

Marinejuana wrote:

@Todd, jemme, & rats. I'm sorry if you stubbornly ignore the way the game is balanced. If you don't see why invincibility is useful for the team, then you are a damn fool.

You actually have the audacity to say that my info here is based solely on my personal experience, and yet there are almost no experienced BF2 players that use the sniper kit in matches. a few "wookies" and random noobs surfing in from the internet are the only people that post in this thread saying the sniper kit has some kind of great potential that could be compared with medics (LOL). Its then very ironic how your main argument is that youve experienced cases where snipers somehow helped win. Is your point that your personal experience means more than mine+everybody else? It sounds like a very weak point that you keep coming back to.

u never explain what the great sniper potential is that makes it better for defending and capturing flags than the medic kit except that ur so leet and can KILL everybody faster than they can kill OR revive (hows that for arrogant?). we should all bear in mind that all three of you have very weak combat stats, avg kpm of .6, so its not like we are hearing from talented players that have learned how to put the sniper kit to some better use. Its still that mediocre kit that kills slightly better than ARs at unnecessary distances and doesn't have shockpaddles. And todd is dumb enough to point out that he doesnt hide but instead charges with the sniper kit. i mean dude, u couldnt communicate more clearly to us that u are a just another bad player that doesnt take advantage of the way the game works, but instead does whatever u want because u obviously think u are some incredibly smart, infallible individual that has some unique BF2 specialty that somehow transcends the balance of the game. The only intelligent thing said by any of you so far is this:

ssonrats wrote:

I don't care if our team loses.

its perfectly alright to lose. Remember it’s a game and you should be doing whatever is fun. My opinion for the OP was that its not very fun to get a good score when I know I deliberately helped my teammates less by not reviving them. If winning the round and helping your teammates is the goal, then heres a good way of thinking it through:

aj0404 wrote:

i would take your round of 32-10 over your round of 17-0.with the first round you took 32 tickets from the other team and lost 10 for your team,which basically means you took 22 tickets from the other team.with your other round you took 17 tickets from the other team.i'd say you were more valuable to your team in your 32-10 round.

aj doesn’t even mention how the short range capabilities of medics make it possible for them to be in their element, reviving and killing, WHILE being near to flags/spawnpoints.

But if you don’t mind losing and being of less help to others (you will be helping the other team tho) then do whatever and have fun, the OP just wanted us to discuss our opinions on the scores. The conclusion to the debate is subjective. If you want to see how this debate concluded in a thread concerning the usefulness of sniper, medic and other strategies in a more objective sense (relevant to winning), see this thread: http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 3#p1352063

Marinejuana.

You're not exactly the most typical player (let alone medic) out there.  Just like many of the upper echelon snipers that have posted aren't your typical snipers.

I'd probably consider myself a fair sniper with KDR ranging from 2:1 to 40:0 all dependent upon the style I'm playing, how careful I am, and the skill level of the opposing team.  The broad KDR range is typical of either taking shots at a safe distance versus playing a sniper supporting a squad for flag capture.  Either way, I'd like to think that I did a fair share in supporting the team.

That said, I've seen many a medic whore points through revives, and as a result, have a low KDR.  Then, I've seen other medics not really earn their higher KDRs through skill, but the fact that there were so many other medics hopping all over each other to keep each other all alive that a high KDR was just eventually going to happen.  THEN, on the flip side, you get that rare medic that maintains a high KDR through skill, constant self-healing, and manages to kill the threat that killed a teammate before deciding to revive that poor bastard into being kill over and over again by the same person.

The problem with all this line of thinking is this:

This is all a Infantry-Only mentality.

For example, that "uber" last medic that I mentioned is probably gonna offer little to the team in revives if something like a hovering chopper or nearby tank killed his teammate.

Even if we do consider IO servers, there has been many a time that I've sat in a gun nest and mowed down a squad of medics who fall all over each other in a revive-orgy.  Or I've placed many a claymore at a particular heavy traffic area, and then placed second claymore in such a manner that after the first guy is revived and all the medics begin moving in, more or less, a group; I've killed two to four medics in the secondary claymore position.  OR an even more favorite tactic of late, has been C4'ing friendly flags, and then killing many swarm, revive-happy, medics in one be BANG!  I don't think that I really have to tell you the success a friend and I have had with doubling up C4 booby-trapped flags for even those cautious medic swarms that wait for the C4 to be detonated, but missed the back-ups.

So, the point of my post is that it's not the "what kit is better argument", versus the who has the better skilled players with some flexible tactics that can change when needed.  All because, I know that there have been many a time that I've nailed 2-3 of those medics in a swarm to have finally died, or even got away with my skin attached later harass the same swarm.

gvers wrote:

I think you need to ask which one did I enjoy most. Don't play for stats play for enjoyment.

I agree.  Whichever round you had a better time playing is better, in my opinion.  Who gives a fuck that you have 55 more or less points?  I've had some great rounds trying to get knife badges just sneaking around trying to get behind people.  Were my SPM or KDR good those rounds?  Hell no.  But I had fun...

"We are the Medic Elite. Everything else is just a toy."



PS: I hate Snipers

The best I've ever done is 56-0 in a J-10 on Dragon Valley

Just yesterday the Sniper kicked the medic's ass again on Dragon Valley. A PLA fast mover medic broke through the lines near the Island Farm House and went for Vista Point. I was on the opposite hill overlooking the CP of Market Place and about to move out to keep the AA empty at Wood Yard. The Commander gave an heads up on that PLA which I tracked till he got out of his car at Vista. A headshot (230 meters) took him out saving my team the trouble of having to move back and intercept this guy, while at the same time giving me some points for defending the CP

Marinejuana wrote:

@Todd, jemme, & rats. I'm sorry if you stubbornly ignore the way the game is balanced. If you don't see why invincibility is useful for the team, then you are a damn fool.

Jesus, would you read what people actually type? Ever heard the term 'assumes facts not in evidence'? I'm not going to take any responsibility for anything anyone else has said, so I'm not going to try and defend any claims that weren't mine so don't lump us all together FFS.

Anyway, let me make this simple for you since apparently you need it spelled out in simple terms:

I've played in games where other classes than medic have made a difference, or the difference.

You think this is BS? Well you're entitled to being wrong if you want to.

Marinejuana wrote:

Is your point that your personal experience means more than mine+everybody else? It sounds like a very weak point that you keep coming back to.

What I've said above is provably true.

I didn't say that medics aren't valuable and I didn't say medics aren't more use as a rule... I'd much rather at least half my team were medics than any other single kit... but the kit is not used to its theoretical potential by all players in every game.

Your theory is that medics are always more use to the team, but if the facts don't fit a theory then the theory is either wrong or flawed in some way. And I've already pointed out some flaws above. You chose to ignore every single example because you don't have the stones, or you thought by brushing them under the carpet that nobody would notice? Look at what I posted above: I'm not saying that that the kit isn't the strongest for infantry play, everyone knows this now, but not everyone uses it that well and sometimes other factors (like flag control) determine which side wins.

Marinejuana wrote:

we should all bear in mind that all three of you have very weak combat stats, avg kpm of .6, so its not like we are hearing from talented players that have learned how to put the sniper kit to some better use.

My KPM for recent play (if 219 hours could be called recent) is 0.88 since you apparently refuse to acknowledge it. I know that's not anywhere near yours but it's a heck of sight better than 0.6.

Marinejuana wrote:

And todd is dumb enough to point out that he doesnt hide but instead charges with the sniper kit. i mean dude, u couldnt communicate more clearly to us that u are a just another bad player that doesnt take advantage of the way the game works, but instead does whatever u want because u obviously think u are some incredibly smart, infallible individual that has some unique BF2 specialty that somehow transcends the balance of the game.

This is not what I said and it's not what I was trying to claim. Way to take what someone said, and the stats to illustrate, and just go off on a complete tangent

My KDR for that play period is 3.2. I'm not here to crow about my leetness because I know better than anyone else how much I suck and in what areas (see point about dead weight in previous post); but a 3.2 KDR for mostly urban infantry play is pretty respectable, especially when the flag points are taken into consideration so I'm not sitting on a hillside pretending to be a bush for 20 minutes at a time.

comet241 wrote:

You have completely turned your blinders on, and i refuse to respond to your individual arguments. I will simply say that in your response to my original post, you completely overlooked my point. My point being that the sniper kit can be useful, i gave many examples, look at my stats for "proof".... yet you simply swat all opposing arguments down with: "medic IS the BEST!!!"

darkhorror wrote:

Sure it's true medic is better most of the time but to simply say it's always better is stupid.

QFE

So to sum up, in Marinejuana's world:
A sniper that hides: no use.
A sniper that doesn't hide: still no use.

A medic that's good is better for the team than any other kit.
A medic that's awful is also better for the team than any other kit.

Wow, if this is what passes for reasoned thinking where he is then I hope for his sake that his family is wealthy.

points dont matter,stats dont matter look at me I got reset 3 times was ranked 32 before my first reset.worrying about your K/d ratio,points,kills whatever just takes the fun out of playing the game.the whole worrying about the stats is the reason why people begin to hack,just so they can come in here and say "I have better stats than you" only because they hacked.as for me getting reset?I liked to go into knife servers not for the points but just to see the skill some people have and to study people's techniques on knifing and when those assholes came into the just to start shooting and ruin my fun I found techiques to overcome the knife VS gun situation

Todd_Angelo wrote:

A medic that's good is better for the team than any other kit.
A medic that's awful is also better for the team than any other kit.

youre still off. i never said that an awful medic is more helpful than a good sniper. only that an equal-skilled medic, especially when increasing numbers of players are around (ie flags), is almost always more useful than an equal skilled sniper. so on average, the more medics, the better the team. thats the whole reason why BF2 5v5 teams are always all medics with small exceptions (as in 90% of the time or more).

But its true that I also said the best medics have a larger impact than the best snipers. you just need to openly admit that the medic kit is inherently superior, and therefore more useful to the team. no other kit can revive (and heal, for christs sake). Do you know how much easier it is to get revives than kills? a revive is always motionless and right next to you, plus it has a bright icon that you can see through walls as if you are hacking.

Towards the outcome of the game, kills and revives are both theoretically IDENTICAL. 1 ticket either way. so to compare any kit with the medic: you always have some killer weapon for the one kit then a killer weapon for the medic PLUS the shockpaddles which are essentially another weapon with wallhacks that can be used on an additional team of players. No other kit can compare to the medics intrinsic productivity. the only way the medic kit doesnt pay off is if people dont use the shockpaddles. but since they are so easy to use, u dont have to treat me like im such an elitist to suggest that anyone could accomplish a bit with them. and knowing bf2's shitty hitreg, i can promise you the average noob could pick up way more revives than sniper kills. revives are just so easy.

now how can u logically argue that other kits somehow can contribute more than medics can contribute?

Todd_Angelo wrote:

I've played in games where other classes than medic have made a difference, or the difference.

comet241 wrote:

[My point being that the sniper kit can be useful, i gave many examples, look at my stats for "proof.

this is the point that you and comit keep circling around. Maybe i exaggerated somewhere and called snipers useless? of course its possible for anybody with any kit to just rape everybody at a flag and push the team ahead with skill. but you purposefully avoid discussing the factors that lead to kills and deaths for a team, and how any other kit has the same potential as the medic for winning tickets and flags in io. the fact is that all kits are outmatched in io by the medic because they are only capable of contributing half as much. get it? dont mix that up with me saying that medics are the only players that can contribute, there are obviously examples of everything in between from all kits when it comes to pubs full of random players. stop relying on your personal experience and give me one argument that is based on some facts about the game. because it isnt news that you can kill people with any kit.

Todd_Angelo wrote:

Marinejuana wrote:

we should all bear in mind that all three of you have very weak combat stats, avg kpm of 0.6, so its not like we are hearing from talented players that have learned how to put the sniper kit to some better use.

My KPM for recent play (if 219 hours could be called recent) is 0.88 since you apparently refuse to acknowledge it. I know that's not anywhere near yours but it's a heck of sight better than 0.6.

i averaged the KPMs for ssonrats, todd_angelo, and jemme101 when i made that post. it came out to 0.6. i didnt just pull that out of thin air.

And just so u know, ur sniper rifle KPM is actually 0.6. And over the last 8 months for all weapons together u average 0.8 KPM(statpadder.com is an interesting tool). So even todd_angelo kills faster with weapons other than the sniper rifle. And its def not with your 0.28 kpm pistol. its not like it adds anything to my point regarding bf2 players in general, but if u wanted to bring up your stats even further why not rub it in?

comet241 wrote:

look at my stats

You have a sniper kpm of 1.1. and a medic kpm of 0.9.but your revives per minute are also 0.9. This means you contribute 1.8 per minute towards tickets as a medic but only 1.1 as a sniper. And I wonder which kit works best over flags? Sounds like neither of you accomplish much with the sniper kit that you couldn’t do with another kit. This doesn’t mean you need to dig up examples of snipers that kill fast, because u know there are medics that kill faster.

comet241 wrote:

I have gotten incredible enjoyment out of the game playing both medic and sniper... as well as all the other kits. It's a game, we're here to have fun, and fun to some people is a sniper rifle.

i also said that its a game and people can play it with whatever goal in mind they want. i can tell you how to have a maximal impact on the enemy, but it doesnt make you a bad person to just go on doing whatever you want.

TrueArchon wrote:

That said, I've seen many a medic whore points through revives, and as a result, have a low KDR.  Then, I've seen other medics not really earn their higher KDRs through skill, but the fact that there were so many other medics hopping all over each other to keep each other all alive that a high KDR was just eventually going to happen.  THEN, on the flip side, you get that rare medic that maintains a high KDR through skill, constant self-healing, and manages to kill the threat that killed a teammate before deciding to revive that poor bastard into being kill over and over again by the same person.

thanks, here u once again establish that with or without skill, medic strategies can succeed.

TrueArchon wrote:

The problem with all this line of thinking is this:

This is all a Infantry-Only mentality.

For example, that "uber" last medic that I mentioned is probably gonna offer little to the team in revives if something like a hovering chopper or nearby tank killed his teammate.

the OP is discussing sniper and medic scores. those are infantry kits and vehicles own both of them equally. if he had asked about roles specific to vehicle servers, we could talk about the usefulness of killing armor with AT kits. create a new topic if u want to discuss all the roles in bf2 vehicle servers, because bf2 with vehicles is much more complex than infantry only, where medics have the potential of being unstoppable.

TrueArchon wrote:

So, the point of my post is that it's not the "what kit is better argument", versus the who has the better skilled players with some flexible tactics that can change when needed.  All because, I know that there have been many a time that I've nailed 2-3 of those medics in a swarm to have finally died, or even got away with my skin attached later harass the same swarm.

the OP was posing an argument between strategies with different kits, so while we can all agree the the more skilled player always has an advantage, we can also agree that the player that can heal and revive other players has another advantage, regardless of their skill level. They are separate issues entirely.

darkhorror wrote:

With all that being said I play medic much much much more than I play sniper or any other class as that is what is needed most of the time.

san4 wrote:

There's nothing better than getting revived every time you get killed: immortality.

And Marinejuana's right about the social aspect of it. Medics make me use the "Thanks, chief" message more than any other class.

DivineMomentofTruth wrote:

Man marinejuana simply destroyed the sniper dick sucker's argument. How many times does it need to be shouted to you people that Medic is the PREMIERE INFANTRY CLASS.

17-0 or 35-12? That’s a completely subjective question, answer it however you want. Which kit between sniper or medic has more potential for helping the team win? Obviously medics have more of an opportunity to help. I don’t know why that fact is so offensive to so many of you, but it’s the way BF2 is.

And I’ve always assumed they built in that over-powered medic/revive feature to both encourage teamwork and reward people for playing infantry in vehicle servers. Too bad people don't always take advantage of it the way they could.

Maybe...

People don't want to load into a first person shooter to play doctor.

with the stats system, many people know medic owns but dont want to be a medic whore in their stats.

others just want to get badges for other kits.

many people think that one random kit is cool, like sniper, so they always use it. and they even get good at it so they never learn to play other, more important, roles.

the list could just go on...

If you are thinking about how you could make the biggest contribution to winning, like if thats your main goal, then medic or high-powered vehicles are going to be most valuable to you in BF2. but if headshotting people from 200 m is your favorite thing to do, then you may never have any real control over the flags and the outcome of the game. just do whatever you want, you paid for the game. go and make yourself happy.