Pages: 1

 

2006-01-25 13:15:53
chuckle_hound
Member
+32|7090|Edinburgh, Scotland
I've been thinking about a few things recently whilst playing Battlefield 2, it's mainly down to the number of possible exploits that an annoying group of players can wreak in an otherwise fun game. Namely insofar as base raping and spawn raping goes.

Now there's plenty of other theories out there. But I'm convinced a small part must be played my mental illness.

Take for example, ruining someone's game. Now for all of us, the idea of fair play does feature eventually. We like to know we're not hurting someone else's feelings, we can identify emotions and thusly know we're causing them.  Put simply, a lot of people don't understand why causing hurt is a problem.  And to any right minded person this is wrong - after all, we lock up people who kill/ steal.

Something like Aspergers syndrome can account for a higher than level skill set (necessary no doubt to help these players perform) and little to no understanding of the emotional consequences of their actions. To a degree there may also be some stages of autism - obsession over the game resulting in constant play. Finally OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) might explain why many players strive so hard to win. Or even to craft the "perfect" character in RPGs.

This is just an idle theory, but in some sense it's helping me to understand some of the oddities that happen across the wonderous intarweb.
2006-01-25 13:22:59
niclangdon
Member
+0|7098
i hear ya there, its crazy how many hours some people log on this shit for...
2006-01-25 13:51:24
BUDFORCE
Moderator Emeritus
+76|7195|London UK

to teh original poster, you are indeed correct, but you are only just scratching the surface.

aspergers, autism, its all relative i think. I think every single human is in some way a certain percent autistic. If you scale it in percent. Id say for definate, i am somewhat autistic, maybe more then average, but I would not class myself as autistic.

its your minds ability to focus either on specifics or a wide variety of things.
2006-01-25 14:05:39
LaidBackNinja
Pony Slaystation
+343|7132|Charlie One Alpha
Agreed with all points made in this thread so far.
I think that I used to act somewhat autistic in the past, but not anymore. Therefore I don't think autism is like an on/off switch, everyone has it to a certain degree. But about BF2 in particular, I mostly don't feel bad when I kill/snipe/baserape somebody purely because I don't see those little pixels on my screen as people. But as soon as I play against someone I know, I feel bad every time I kill em, even if it was a fair fight.
This one time I played with some people in a squad and it was awesome. The next day I found myself on the other team, and I felt really bad for killing them, even though I hardly knew them at all. What makes it easy to baserape and so on, is that you often don't consider the enemy to be a human player. As soon as you do, (at least for me), it's really hard to baserape someone.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine SecuROM slapping your face with its dick -- forever." -George Orwell
2006-01-25 14:06:47
Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|7123
Base raping and spawn raping are not exploits. If EA hadnt intended players to go into the enemy base and kill people, they wouldnt have put the commander assets there, and they wouldnt have made it as easy as going to any other place on the map. Base/Spawn raping are viable tactics, and if you cant handle being spawncamped i suggest you go play some other game. Or perhaps try and kill the people camping you.

As for your theory regarding mental illnesses, there are very few players who dont spawncamp or baserape when its appropriate, so the vast majority of battlefield 2 players would have to be mentally unsound. Your theory is perhaps applicable to those players who actively try and sabotoge their teammates (I.E serial teamkillers on servers that have no punish option) but again, spawncamping is not a game exploit.

Nobody likes being spawncamped, but who cares? noone likes losing either; perhaps we should take a page from the special olympics, so that noone loses. If your team has been beaten back to the point where you have no active spawn points other than your main base, and the other team is pounding you into oblivion, then you deserve to be getting spawncamped. Its that simple. It has nothing to do with the other team trying to deliberately hurt your feelings, its just a part of the game.
2006-01-25 14:14:28
Torin
Member
+52|7115
^^ Agreed.

Spawn camping is a legitimate tactic to win the game. Most people are playing to win. Connect the dots?

I'm sure BF2 has it's share of players with mental illnesses, just like any competition does.

But to take it so far as to conjecture about how you might be affecting someone's feelings when you kill them in a game? Give me a break. I thought I took the game a little too seriously....
2006-01-25 14:18:18
broncobullfrog
Extra Tender Juicy SPINY
+58|7174|The 70's

chuckle_hound wrote:

I've been thinking about a few things recently whilst playing Battlefield 2, it's mainly down to the number of possible exploits that an annoying group of players can wreak in an otherwise fun game. Namely insofar as base raping and spawn raping goes.

Now there's plenty of other theories out there. But I'm convinced a small part must be played my mental illness.

Take for example, ruining someone's game. Now for all of us, the idea of fair play does feature eventually. We like to know we're not hurting someone else's feelings, we can identify emotions and thusly know we're causing them.  Put simply, a lot of people don't understand why causing hurt is a problem.  And to any right minded person this is wrong - after all, we lock up people who kill/ steal.

Something like Aspergers syndrome can account for a higher than level skill set (necessary no doubt to help these players perform) and little to no understanding of the emotional consequences of their actions. To a degree there may also be some stages of autism - obsession over the game resulting in constant play. Finally OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) might explain why many players strive so hard to win. Or even to craft the "perfect" character in RPGs.

This is just an idle theory, but in some sense it's helping me to understand some of the oddities that happen across the wonderous intarweb.
This is wrong, offensive and dumb. It also suggests you are having some difficulty distinguishing between the real world and the virtual. Ever thought that the virtual world enables us do and say things that we cannot or would not do in real life. Like shoot people. ( 'thusly'? LOL).
To try and diagnose people as mentally ill, or disabled, on the basis of gameplay is about as wrong minded as you can get.
2006-01-25 15:33:08
*ToRRo*cT|
Spanish Sniper-Wh0re
+199|7166|Malaga, España
i heard in china a gamer has died because he played 56 hours non stop....Body got exhausted and vital organs just snapped ...stopped i mean ....well let that be a warning fokes
2006-01-25 16:30:51
Dirrty_Bird
Dirtier than thou
+5|7163|Vermont

chuckle_hound wrote:

Namely insofar as base raping and spawn raping goes.
You know that's not a sentence right?
2006-01-25 17:11:55
chuckle_hound
Member
+32|7090|Edinburgh, Scotland

broncobullfrog wrote:

This is wrong, offensive and dumb. It also suggests you are having some difficulty distinguishing between the real world and the virtual. Ever thought that the virtual world enables us do and say things that we cannot or would not do in real life. Like shoot people. ( 'thusly'? LOL).
To try and diagnose people as mentally ill, or disabled, on the basis of gameplay is about as wrong minded as you can get.
When making assertations, it does help to back them up (note, thusly is a word.  Congrats, you've learned something).


Sensible, rational human beings will see the consequences of their actions regarless of when and where.  Following your system, people would not donate aid/ money online, nobody would form friendships online and so on. 

And for those of you with some strange thought that I'm moaning about base raping, try re-reading the OP.  My problem is with the people who think it's alright.  Who can see no possible problem with causing grief to other players.  BF2 is suprisingly not about winning at all costs, the clue is in the big words on the box - it's a GAME.  All games have rules and regulations, and the primary one is not to grief other players.  If someone says they don't like you sniping them the moment they spawn, then that's reason enough to sit back and give them a chance.  If you're so unsure about your own skills that you find it necessary to play dirty, that says a hell of a lot more about you than any so called skills.

In the end, there's two schools of thought.  It just so happens that you lack the emotional quotient to understand the effect your thought has on the rest of us.  And for that I feel nothing but sympathy.


Oh and:

"You know that's not a sentence right?"

Strange, it looks like a sentence to me.  If you mean it doesn't make perfect grammatical sense then say so.

Last edited by chuckle_hound (2006-01-25 17:13:46)

2006-01-25 17:23:26
=SA=VaSSiLi
Member
+2|7194
I think you may be taking "good sportsmanship" to a new level?  Does the number one hockey team in the world feel sorry for their opponents and say.. "Hey buddy, why don't you just take a few shots on the open net, because I know you must be pissed off.." ?

It's fine to be courteous in game.  I say gg after all my games, wether my team won or lost, or ill tell someone "good kill/shot/whatever," but I'm not going to be their shoulder to cry on.  (As you said yourself, it is just a game, so hopefully, they don't NEED a shoulder to cry on..)

I play to have fun, if other people arent having fun, there isn't much I can do for them, besides tell themto go play a different game...  Guess I'm mentally retarded! Woot!

*Edit*

But I have to add one more thing.  Im sure anyone gets a bit pissed off when they get killed, with any weapon, anywhere, anytime.  So what am I going to do, not shoot anyone because it might make them mad?

Last edited by =SA=VaSSiLi (2006-01-25 17:27:13)

2006-01-25 17:59:42
broncobullfrog
Extra Tender Juicy SPINY
+58|7174|The 70's

chuckle_hound wrote:

broncobullfrog wrote:

This is wrong, offensive and dumb. It also suggests you are having some difficulty distinguishing between the real world and the virtual. Ever thought that the virtual world enables us do and say things that we cannot or would not do in real life. Like shoot people. ( 'thusly'? LOL).
To try and diagnose people as mentally ill, or disabled, on the basis of gameplay is about as wrong minded as you can get.
When making assertations, it does help to back them up (note, thusly is a word.  Congrats, you've learned something).


Sensible, rational human beings will see the consequences of their actions regarless of when and where.  Following your system, people would not donate aid/ money online, nobody would form friendships online and so on. 

And for those of you with some strange thought that I'm moaning about base raping, try re-reading the OP.  My problem is with the people who think it's alright.  Who can see no possible problem with causing grief to other players.  BF2 is suprisingly not about winning at all costs, the clue is in the big words on the box - it's a GAME.  All games have rules and regulations, and the primary one is not to grief other players.  If someone says they don't like you sniping them the moment they spawn, then that's reason enough to sit back and give them a chance.  If you're so unsure about your own skills that you find it necessary to play dirty, that says a hell of a lot more about you than any so called skills.

In the end, there's two schools of thought.  It just so happens that you lack the emotional quotient to understand the effect your thought has on the rest of us.  And for that I feel nothing but sympathy.


Oh and:

"You know that's not a sentence right?"

Strange, it looks like a sentence to me.  If you mean it doesn't make perfect grammatical sense then say so.
People who use words like 'thusly' are usually straining to dress up their weak arguments in rhetoric to appear more impressive. I am aware that the word exists, I found it amusing that by using it you appeared ridiculous when you hoped to sound profound, hence the laughter. As for my 'system', I was not aware that I had advocated one. You make a pretty big, and dare i say illogical leap from my view that people will use the anonymity of online play to adopt differant personas, to claim that this would mean the end of charitable giving online. Sorry, I dont see the connection.
My argument which I will restate since you seem to have some difficulty in understanding what I said, is that iin my view you have no justification in claiming that people who behave in a manner while playing an online game which you find upsetting, are likely to be suffering from a mental illness. Indeed it could be claimed that it is far healthier to find an outlet for anti-social attitudes in gameplay than in real-life. Noobtoobing may be annoying, but its better than going postal.
You cannot, I assert, make any reliable judgement on the real personality of someone from their actions or language in an online shooter. The person behind your sceen may be mad, bad or dangerous to know, that daredevill pilot may be a 9 year-old girl, the person you chat with in a forum may be a paedophile or a Fed. Remember this when you continue to explore the world of on-line friendships.
2006-01-25 18:28:23
Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|7123
And for those of you with some strange thought that I'm moaning about base raping, try re-reading the OP.  My problem is with the people who think it's alright.  Who can see no possible problem with causing grief to other players.
I've been thinking about a few things recently whilst playing Battlefield 2, it's mainly down to the number of possible exploits that an annoying group of players can wreak in an otherwise fun game. Namely insofar as base raping and spawn raping goes.
Now, I dont want to seem like an asshole here, but it seems to me that your problem is with baseraping. In that first quote you say your problem isnt with base raping, its with people who base rape. Thats a rather slim distinction, and is anyway totally irrelevant. Baseraping is not an exploit. Baseraping is not a violation of the EA EULA. Baseraping is NOT a form of griefing. Your contention that spawncamping or baseraping qualifies as griefing is laughable at best. Do people like being spawncamped? of course not, but its their own teams fault theyre in that position. You've got a gun dont you? SHOOT BACK.

Using your logic, I could say that I dont appreciate the enemy tanks shooting me while I'm a medic, and they would leave me alone. After all, I cant hurt them back can I? I dont have any weapons that can hurt them, but they can attack me at will, therefore they must be exploiting the game dynamics in order to cause me grief. This logic is specious, at best.

Where does it end? Can infantry on foot complain about being bombed by jets? Can a tank complain about being hit by laser guided missiles? Can men capturing a flag be griefed by the commander's artillery? (im not sure if griefed is a verb, but oh well).

If you really hate spawncampers that much go play on a server that restricts it. There are places you can play where attacking an uncappable base is grounds for being kicked. But don't come here and tell us all that spawncampers are mentally challenged without some damn good proof, of which you have none.

You also seem to have no idea where the line between an exploit and normal gameplay is. If you want an exploit, watch some players shooting people from underneath the hotel control point on karkand sometime. Or go find some screenshots of hackers. An exploit is something that the game's designers did not intend for the player to be able to do. If the devs didnt want people spawncamping, it would be alot harder than simply walking to the enemy base and shooting people.

P.S: I spawncamp. And I steal vehicles from the enemies uncappable base. You should try it sometime.
2006-01-25 19:07:37
Tushers
Noctwisaskfirtush
+224|7107|Some where huntin in Wisconsin
i consider base rapping a sport
2006-01-25 19:13:07
BurlySmurf
Member
+1|7177|Nellis AFB
When I play I play to win. I will do everything necessry for my team to win. If we win by 1 or 200 it doesn't matter.

If we take all of the flags, but your uncaps you better believe I will be bringing the fight to your door(Or tank/jet depending on the map). Why would I sit back and let you take more flags? If your flag wasn't uncappable I would have taken it from you already. Since I can't deny you the spawn point by capping it I will deny you access to the rest of the map by killing you where you stand.

The main objective of this game is spawn control. If you have all the flags do everything possible to keep it that way.

chuckle_hound wrote:

And for those of you with some strange thought that I'm moaning about base raping, try re-reading the OP.  My problem is with the people who think it's alright.  Who can see no possible problem with causing grief to other players.
The point of competition is to do your best to win. It is natural for people to get frustrated and upset when they are losing. If you are losing bad enough to be pinned down at your uncap I can see some people getting very frustrated. That is part of all competition. If losing didn't bother you what would be the point of trying to win?
2006-01-25 19:13:12
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7197|Noizyland

chuckle_hound wrote:

I've been thinking about a few things recently...
Did it hurt?
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
2006-01-25 19:14:31
washow
Get out of MY JET!!!
+23|7135
then you suck..

i hardly base rape and when i do, i do it because all of the other flags are taken

 

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