Pages: 1 2

 

2007-11-29 14:23:06
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|7062|Birmingham, UK

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

TheDarkRaven wrote:

And actually, Shakespeare was a wonderful writer - you have to judge him in the context of his time and the development and application of the English language as it was at the time. To compare pure Shakespeare's works to modern literature by modern standards of Modern English would be rather ridiculous - and I find your implicated suggestion of this quite horrid. Shakespeare still conveys a love for English, writing and life in modern terms - it truly is something to behold, if a little bewildering at times with the vast changes in the English Language as it was to as it is now.
That only proves that you can look past the grammar and see a story for what it is, if you so choose.

TheDarkRaven wrote:

poor English

TheDarkRaven wrote:

Oh, I'm not complaining of the plot
Huh.

jimmanycricket wrote:

...dumned down the name for the americans
Huh.
You said "despite occasional predictability, it is a fun series to read" - thus the 'fun', as you call it, depends on plot and substance rather than grammar. And Rowling has a fair plot in the Harry Potter series - not staggeringly great, but perfectly reasonably good.
And poor English goes hand-in-hand with poor grammar - Harry Potter exemplifies this so often it's rather embarrassing to read, especially since it resides at the hallowed alter of all who wish to be popular in their new love of books. It's good that more people are reading to a great extent primarily because of it - but for many of them it's all they're truly reading, and that can't be a good thing, especially when it's so damn bad.
It doesn't prove I can look past the grammar to appreciate true self - Shakespeare wrote brilliantly well for his time and helped to form and shape some of the language we now hold so dear (at least I do). However, Rowling's efforts by Modern English standards are terrible and inexcusable for someone held in such high regard. I do not pick and choose, I base my opinions on what the authors were trying to achieve, what they could achieve and what they succeeded in - I'm sure you'd agree that Shakespeare excels in these attributes compared to Rowling who languishes in the torrid seas on mediocrity.
jimmanycricket may show some stereotyping of Americans, but I believe American publishers changed the title so it would better suit Americans - how they couldn't understand 'The Northern Lights' just as well as 'The Golden Compass', however, I'm not quite sure.

I must be off to bed now, but please feel free to PM me if you have anything else to discuss unnamednewbie13!

All the best,
Andy
2007-11-29 14:23:17
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|7177|Toronto | Canada

jimmanycricket wrote:

In england its still Northern lights to my knowlege. I assumed they dumned down the name for the americans, like the did with Harry Potter and the philosophers stone (american - Harry Potter and the sorcerers stone)
I'm Canadian, good try though.
2007-11-29 14:26:11
White-Fusion
Fuck
+616|6990|Scotland
To sum it up...

If you haven't read them, read them as soon as you can.
2007-11-29 14:27:10
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|7062|Birmingham, UK

Funky_Finny wrote:

I'm Jamesey wrote:

TheDarkRaven wrote:


Paraphrased:- Myself rambling about correct use of English.
geek
Agreed.
Extremely intelligent insults there; I laud you for both your efforts.
However, I am merely stating the obvious and known to anyone who can be bothered to learn of their language and apply it correctly - if this offends you in any way, my deepest apologies. Perhaps English really is dead after all.
2007-11-29 14:30:20
DUnlimited
got any popo lolo intersting?
+1,160|6902|cuntshitlake

I read the trilogy about 4-5 years ago. It was one of the best books/trilogies I had ridden by that time. Might start reading it again. I still have them somewhere.
main battle tank karthus medikopter 117 megamegapowershot gg
2007-11-29 14:50:51
I'm Jamesey
Do a Research Noob
+506|6571|Scotland!

TheDarkRaven wrote:

Funky_Finny wrote:

I'm Jamesey wrote:


geek
Agreed.
Extremely intelligent insults there; I laud you for both your efforts.
However, I am merely stating the obvious and known to anyone who can be bothered to learn of their language and apply it correctly - if this offends you in any way, my deepest apologies. Perhaps English really is dead after all.
Don't worry, it's not your fault, you're only young.

I hope in a few years you look back on what you typed on a gaming forum in an attempt to make people go " " and realise that you looked like a pretentious asshole.
2007-11-29 14:53:29
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|7062|Birmingham, UK

I'm Jamesey wrote:

TheDarkRaven wrote:

Funky_Finny wrote:


Agreed.
Extremely intelligent insults there; I laud you for both your efforts.
However, I am merely stating the obvious and known to anyone who can be bothered to learn of their language and apply it correctly - if this offends you in any way, my deepest apologies. Perhaps English really is dead after all.
Don't worry, it's not your fault, you're only young.

I hope in a few years you look back on what you typed on a gaming forum in an attempt to make people go " " and realise that you looked like a pretentious asshole.
To make people go "", eh? Actually, I was simply stating why I uphold proper application of the English language - because hardly anyone does and it's becoming more corrupt than Richard Nixon's presidency.
2007-11-29 14:55:55
Funky_Finny
Banned
+456|6571|Carnoustie, Scotland

TheDarkRaven wrote:

Funky_Finny wrote:

I'm Jamesey wrote:


geek
Agreed.
Extremely intelligent insults there; I laud you for both your efforts.
However, I am merely stating the obvious and known to anyone who can be bothered to learn of their language and apply it correctly - if this offends you in any way, my deepest apologies. Perhaps English really is dead after all.
I'm all for proper use of English, it's just that Shakespeare is fail...I hate it.
2007-11-29 14:57:50
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|7062|Birmingham, UK

Funky_Finny wrote:

TheDarkRaven wrote:

Funky_Finny wrote:


Agreed.
Extremely intelligent insults there; I laud you for both your efforts.
However, I am merely stating the obvious and known to anyone who can be bothered to learn of their language and apply it correctly - if this offends you in any way, my deepest apologies. Perhaps English really is dead after all.
I'm all for proper use of English, it's just that Shakespeare is fail...I hate it.
Oh, I quite agree that Shakespeare is extremely hard to grasp in the modern age - truth be told, I find it difficult but worthwhile.
2007-11-29 15:34:23
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|7103|NT, like Mick Dundee

Raven; Rowling's books aim to entertain. They do that quite well. In addition, Snape is one of the most developed and well crafted characters I've seen in a book that's only purpose is to entertain.




If you think Shakespeare is hard to grasp... Well, I feel sorry for you. The Merchant of Venice is one of the funniest things I've ever read. I would love to see one of his scripts played out on stage by a decent troup some time. Probably have to go back to the Globe for that though.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2007-11-29 15:38:03
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6774|Oregon
great books.
2007-11-29 22:34:46
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|7062|Birmingham, UK

Flecco wrote:

Raven; Rowling's books aim to entertain. They do that quite well. In addition, Snape is one of the most developed and well crafted characters I've seen in a book that's only purpose is to entertain.




If you think Shakespeare is hard to grasp... Well, I feel sorry for you. The Merchant of Venice is one of the funniest things I've ever read. I would love to see one of his scripts played out on stage by a decent troup some time. Probably have to go back to the Globe for that though.
I merely have to quiet down the need for modern grammatical sense, Flecco, when reading Shakespeare - that's all. It's still wonderfully beautiful and engaging writing when one can immerse themselves in the world that he portrays.
And I heartily recommend taking the time and expense to view a performance by the Royal Shakespeare Company - thankfully I live very close to where they are based (Stratford-Upon-Avon). Patrick Stewart being one of my favourite actors is a superb Thespian and and sincerely wonderful Shakespearean actor with his masterful command of tone, timbre and presence.

Flecco - I recognise that they are to entertain, but I feel that with the media hype and the general public's uptake they have a responsibility more than that. No doubt there must be at least one great character - I haven't compelled myself to read past the fourth book (Goblet of Fire?) and so wouldn't truly know. Didn't strike me as a marvel of modern literature; sure, it's a fine series but it's not so extraordinary as most people would make out. Instead, I'd rather recommend to friends as overall overwhelmingly superior series in the same modern fantasy vein as Harry Potter the Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud and the Inkheart trilogy by Cornelia Funke (to be completed next year).

Sorry to come across as so anti-Rowling, but I feel it's a disgrace to have such poor English in such wide circulation so highly held without regard to it's downpoints. The media annoy me most in their control over the public and manipulating them into ecstasy about it; I feel this is a travesty.

Oh well, c'est la vie, eh?
2007-11-29 22:37:42
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7213|Noizyland

Read all of them twice. Kinda gutted they're calling the film "The Golden Compass" which is the idiotic verion of the name. I don't think the film will be very good given the fact that they're relying fully on a child actress.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
2007-11-30 01:46:52
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|7103|NT, like Mick Dundee

TheDarkRaven wrote:

I merely have to quiet down the need for modern grammatical sense, Flecco, when reading Shakespeare - that's all. It's still wonderfully beautiful and engaging writing when one can immerse themselves in the world that he portrays.
And I heartily recommend taking the time and expense to view a performance by the Royal Shakespeare Company - thankfully I live very close to where they are based (Stratford-Upon-Avon). Patrick Stewart being one of my favourite actors is a superb Thespian and and sincerely wonderful Shakespearean actor with his masterful command of tone, timbre and presence.

Flecco - I recognise that they are to entertain, but I feel that with the media hype and the general public's uptake they have a responsibility more than that. No doubt there must be at least one great character - I haven't compelled myself to read past the fourth book (Goblet of Fire?) and so wouldn't truly know. Didn't strike me as a marvel of modern literature; sure, it's a fine series but it's not so extraordinary as most people would make out. Instead, I'd rather recommend to friends as overall overwhelmingly superior series in the same modern fantasy vein as Harry Potter the Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud and the Inkheart trilogy by Cornelia Funke (to be completed next year).

Sorry to come across as so anti-Rowling, but I feel it's a disgrace to have such poor English in such wide circulation so highly held without regard to it's downpoints. The media annoy me most in their control over the public and manipulating them into ecstasy about it; I feel this is a travesty.

Oh well, c'est la vie, eh?
Poorly structured 'rap' music is in far wider circulation.

Artemis Fowl books > Harry Potter from a writing point of view. As are the Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events. I should read less children's books.

Snape is woven through all the books but is only fleshed out in the final one. Great finish for the character, but not totally unexpected.

I liked the Northern Lights. Never read the others in the series, they didn't really engage me.

Lastly, I don't read fiction much any more other than Matthew Rielly's novels. Digging into non-fiction for the most part now. I read Rielly's novels still because I've been reading them a long time and they take 1 night to finish off and show off what an insane imagination the man has for action sequences. Good fun.

This post is more a list of points than an actual post.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2007-11-30 04:17:34
Funky_Finny
Banned
+456|6571|Carnoustie, Scotland

Flecco wrote:

Artemis Fowl books > Harry Potter
And they could be the very best books I've ever read.
2007-11-30 04:46:01
Switch
Knee Deep In Clunge
+489|6902|Tyne & Wear, England
I read the Subtle Knife when I was back in school, but I don't think I appreciated it much as I could have because I had never read the first.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
2007-11-30 04:46:16
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|7103|NT, like Mick Dundee

Funky_Finny wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Artemis Fowl books > Harry Potter
And they could be the very best books I've ever read.
I like them because Eion Colfer has a brilliant sense of humour along with again, a great imagination.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2007-11-30 06:29:39
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7181|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
anything that winds up religious freaks is ok in my book, look forward to reading the books & seeing the movie..
2007-11-30 13:52:27
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7020|SE London

FatherTed wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

Funky_Finny wrote:


They changed it. Because they are teh ghey.
Was it Northern Lights first or second?  Because my book is at least 7 or 8 years old and it has the Golden Compass as the title.
I think it depends where it was printed, but Northen Lights is the original, i got the book about a week after it's release.

It's fucking clever stuff, draws so many parallels to real life, faith and war.
Northern Lights is the UK title. It was renamed for the US market - not for the film. I'm disappointed the film isn't titled Northern Lights outside the US.

Absolutely amazing books. The film looks like it has great potential - I'm a bit apprehensive though, since the quality of the film will hinge on the performance of a child actress (and another child actor throughout the rest of the trilogy). Getting two child actors of that calibre is unlikely - but I really hope they manage it. If the child actors aren't good then the films will be crap, no matter how good the rest of the cast are.
2007-11-30 14:01:18
SplinterStrike
Roamer
+250|6849|Eskimo land. AKA Canada.
His Dark Material sits in my library, surrounded by other greats such as Lord of the Rings, The Dark Elf Trilogy, Artemis Fowl, and the Inheritance Trilogy.

Great books.
2007-12-01 15:07:15
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6988|CH/BR - in UK

For some reason, I loved all of his books. I'm a hopeless dreamer and romantic, so I like going off in these worlds of fiction. I don't care about the writing too much, as long as I can understand it without having to re-read it, and it's not written incoherently.

-konfusion
2007-12-02 02:08:47
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|7103|NT, like Mick Dundee

ARTEMIS FOWL MOFOCKERS. READ IT.

Haha, no but seriously, they are very funny. As are Snicket's novels.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2007-12-02 09:02:33
motherdear
Member
+25|7090|Denmark/Minnesota (depends)

Flecco wrote:

ARTEMIS FOWL MOFOCKERS. READ IT.
artemis fowl series and the the dark materials/northernlights series are properly some of the best books i've ever read, artemis fowl got a lot of problems with the characters (he says that they can't do something and then they do it later in the book (the dwarf is described as not being able to burb when he is digging a tunnel into the castle in the first book but the first thing he does when he gets up is to burb (small anoying details)) but the book is still fucking hilarious and the plot is great.

also i first read the golden compas (first book) when i was around 13 and then i began waiting for the rest to come out in danish (wasn't that good at english at that time and didn't have to money to get the english versions) and i still remember how scared i was of death after the last book (creepy depiction of the underworld)
2007-12-02 09:05:50
Microwave
_
+515|7093|Loughborough Uni / Leeds, UK
I've read the trilogy - great books. I think they deserve a re-read as the first time I read them I was only about 14.


Very rich and diverse storylines.


I've also read the Artemis Foul books as someone mentioned above which I loved.

 

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