BF2S Forums Retail stores often have policies to check purchased goods

I don't really care if they want to draw on my receipt. Most of the people don't even look at the shopping cart and if they do it's just a quick glance. And if they want to be jealous of my new plasma display, I say why not let them be?

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

I don't really care if they want to draw on my receipt. Most of the people don't even look at the shopping cart and if they do it's just a quick glance. And if they want to be jealous of my new plasma display, I say why not let them be?

2 things though...

1) You've just waited in line at Costco for 30 minutes, after waiting another 20 minutes for an electronics/audio-video clerk to help you shop for your plasma TV, and you spent another 15 minutes picking it up in the back/receiving area...now there's a line at the door to get out because some lackey loss prevention clerk is taking his job way too seriously and verifying your legally owned items...oh, and you gotta pee and get home sometime today...  You really gonna wait more time for no reason whatsoever?  Because they don't trust their employees ringing up purchases?

2)  The dumbing down of America...making you think you need to comply with a violation of privacy (yes, those goods became YOUR personal property the minute that credit card transaction completed), or possibly a threat to your right to be secure with your property when someone comes after you in the parking lot if you don't comply.  This risk to the mentality of Americans leads to further abandonment of your civil rights.  Soon it will be acceptable to simply believe the news every night and soon it will be unpatriotic to question your leaders...oh wait a minute...

See my point?

usmarine2005 wrote:

I don't like it, but it is usually some old dude, and I feel bad yelling at a senior citizen trying to make some extra money.

True.  This may be the ONLY reason I'd comply! haha.  Poor retiree can't pay rent AND for his meds on his retirement wage..so he has to be a slave at Walmart... some sad chit mang.  Yeah, I'd give him my receipt.

Yeah, yeah, but aside of pittying the poor guy (which is not always some old dude making ends meet but an aggressive loss prevention clerk or security guard who really wants a gun for his job)...it's the principle that I'm getting after. 

If you are in support of the principle of doing it or not is more what my poll is asking.

I don't know if such search is practiced in Europe, I've never seen it happen here, unless during Xmas time when the stores are ful of people and here is someone watching the exits. But they never search your goods.

if theft wasn't a problem then we probably wouldn't have the "marker lady" but all it takes is for 1 person to ruin it for everyone



yeah I hate standing in line 20 mins to check out then to wait another 10 mins while some old lady is checking off your recipt but do I really want to get up to her then refuse and toss out some legal facts .... no bc I've got 20 people behind wanting to leave and they would probably shoot me if I made some stupid scene

rdx-fx wrote:

Sheep.

I've better places to flex my rights than in the face of some poor minimum wage slob.

In principle, it's the same thing as having a cashier ring you up.
Shouldn't you be just as offended that one of their employees is looking over every item, and making sure you pay exactly the right amount?  Wouldn't it be fair to just let everyone add up all their items, and just put the money in the register themselves?

Well the difference with the cashier is that you don't have any 4th amendment or privacy right protection because you don't own those things.  When the transaction is final, it should be final.  If they care about their cashiers not doing correct jobs, or they think you may be stealing things, then apply an overseer at each register to verify you're bagging/taking out things you purchased...and don't put merchandise between the checkstand and doors. 

Look at this example:

You're walking down the street talking on your phone.  Some polite person stops and asks you if he can see your phone.  You reply, no, sorry, I'm on a call.  They reply, sorry, I really need to see your phone.  You refuse and walk away.  They persue demanding to see your phone...you run for your car.

The same exact invasion is happening at the exit when you are asked for your receipt. 



Further, it's hardly a measure to stop theft.  Most US retail stores employ the UCC (uniform commercial code) principles to shoplifting as this:

1) you must see patron approach merchandise
2) you must see patron take merchandise
3) you must see patron conceal merchandise
4) you must see patron avoid paying for merchandise
5) you must never lose eye contact with patron all the way out the door

If ANY of these steps is not certain, you simply let them go..or confront them in store politely asking them to remove what they've concealed. 

The goobs at the door checking receipts cannot possibly comply with this checklist so they have no claim upon you for being a potential thief.  Why  do they still do this practice?  Because it's worth it to them to hassle customers to make sure their employees are doing their jobs...that's it - much moreso than loss prevention.

IRONCHEF wrote:

1) You've just waited in line at Costco for 30 minutes, after waiting another 20 minutes for an electronics/audio-video clerk to help you shop for your plasma TV, and you spent another 15 minutes picking it up in the back/receiving area...now there's a line at the door to get out because some lackey loss prevention clerk is taking his job way too seriously and verifying your legally owned items...oh, and you gotta pee and get home sometime today...  You really gonna wait more time for no reason whatsoever?  Because they don't trust their employees ringing up purchases?

You can pee in Costco before picking up the TV.

This is a problem?

1) It's not discrimination if everyone is checked or randomly selected to be checked
2) If you don't like the policy, shop elsewhere

Aka if you don't like the security measures at the airports - don't fly.

I support the principle of it.  People are idiots and will do anything to steal.  If you ask me, that is private property you are on and they have every right to search you.

Pug wrote:

This is a problem?

1) It's not discrimination if everyone is checked or randomly selected to be checked
2) If you don't like the policy, shop elsewhere

Aka if you don't like the security measures at the airports - don't fly.

I never said it was discrimination.  It is a violation of your 4th ammendment rights to do it.  It is an inconvenience.
Shop elsewhere? NO, I just walk out and right to my car.

And for what it's worth, many stores are actually training their loss prevention lackeys and telling them of their duties NOT to infringe on the rights of their customers because they know it is violating their civil rights.  When these dudes touch you, stop you physically, block you or your car, you can call police, have them arrested for false imprisonment/unlawful detention...even if they just say they intend to keep you, you can call the police.  And the police are obliged to arrest them for the felony they're committing.  I've seen precedent for that..which is why many stores are retraining their loss prevention people.

What I'm trying to do with this poll is see where your minds are, see if you understand this basic fundamental violation of your rights, and then see if you care.  Sadly, you guys don't care which is odd given the citing of civil rights so much in this forum.

usmarine2005 wrote:

I support the principle of it.  People are idiots and will do anything to steal.  If you ask me, that is private property you are on and they have every right to search you.

Private property doesn't negate your right against being searched.  Any cop or lawyer can tell you that they need probable cause to do that..and if they don't and search you, they're toast..and you will win lots of money.



Also, I'm not saying you should stir shit up when you leave.  I think that's coming across here and it shouldn't.  I'm advocating that people just walk out if they want to, maybe say two things, and continue to your car and leave.  Say "sorry, no" to the person demanding to check your receipt...if they persist ask tell them no.  If they threaten to keep you or call the cops, ask them if they're keeping you for shoplifting.  THAT is the pivotal point where their training comes in.  If they did not have probable cause (which they cannot possibly have), they must let you go or you can ream that company easily in court for lots of money.  If ANY attempt to stop you, hold you, or block you is made...you can chose to call the cops and it's over for them.  You can also educate them by saying to them if they have no probable cause (following those steps I listed) then they'll be charged with felonies: kidnapping and false arrest.  Ask a cop or a lawyer or google precedents on this and you'll see I"m right.  There was a recent Circuit City incident of this nature that proves it.

Anyway, I won't try to convince you all of this anymore..i've said what I've said.  Just sad more people don't give a shit about their rights to buy goods and know they don't have to yield their constitutional rights.

For my part, I'm contacting the stores I solicit asking them to post signs or some written policy viewable by custsomers denoting the voluntary review of receipts done at the door as being voluntary.  That would end the problems thousands of people have daily because of this bad business practice.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2007-12-14 11:48:30)

Ilocano wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

1) You've just waited in line at Costco for 30 minutes, after waiting another 20 minutes for an electronics/audio-video clerk to help you shop for your plasma TV, and you spent another 15 minutes picking it up in the back/receiving area...now there's a line at the door to get out because some lackey loss prevention clerk is taking his job way too seriously and verifying your legally owned items...oh, and you gotta pee and get home sometime today...  You really gonna wait more time for no reason whatsoever?  Because they don't trust their employees ringing up purchases?

You can pee in Costco before picking up the TV.

Not too mention you would probably waste more time disrupting a peaceful Saturday afternoon.

In principle I disagree. But I've got bigger fish to fry in my day to day life.